National Forum

The One Change That Would Revitialise The Entire Football Championship

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Well done, you managed to come up with a worse suggestion than the original post"
If you enjoy the basketball most games have become fair play to you.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 233 - 20/06/2022 17:28:45    2426451

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Replying To Temple56:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
You must be having a laugh? That is not the Answer. The provincial championships are dead and there's no coming back from that. Its not a fair system. Imagine telling someone that isn't from Ireland that we have 4 provincial championships but they are split up into to 6 team, 7 teams, 9 teams and 11 teams. The Provincial championships should have no baring on the All Ireland championships they should be two totally different competitions.

A better option would be to play the Provincials in February and March. The weather would be bad and this would mean for closer games between the teams.

Then run the league and championship from April to July.

The league should stay the same with the top 16 teams (Div 1/2 teams) at the end of the league entering the All Ireland Championship and the bottom 16 teams (Div 3/4 teams) entering the Tailteann Cup.

Both competitions will run side by side with 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 form each group qualifying for the QFs.

Each county will be guarantee 10 league/championship games which the players will love."
Perfection.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 712 - 20/06/2022 17:32:07    2426453

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Replying To howdareu:  "
Replying To eoinog:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
And your solutions are?? No point knocking everything here- you seem to disagree with everything and everyone and pick rows and it is not wanted. Some people here actually are coming up with good ideas but with negative attitudes like yours nothing will ever change. I really wish you would desist- it is tiresome in that main please. Thank you so much."]i just think he/she needs to ease up on the drink, he/she is raving

Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2364 - 20/06/2022 17:46:45    2426456

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Just make the tailteann intermediate. Win to go up. No league involved.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 187 - 20/06/2022 17:49:45    2426457

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Just make the tailteann intermediate. Win to go up. No league involved.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 187 - 20/06/2022 17:50:11    2426458

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Look lads. I put my head on the block and a few want to knock it off. Fair enough.

As Viking66 (Wexford) says, not to much sun in Donegal.

if Dublin fans don't see any merit in it, then so be it.

But make no mistake. Next years championship is the chink in the chain to finally removing the provincials or at the very least relegating them to McKenna Cup status. Some will be happy but I've loved following Ulster and Connacht.

My biggest gripe was always the unbalanced nature where Two Ulster teams have to win four and Kerry have to win 2 against substandard opposition.

Leinster championship is not structural. Dublin just got too good but take them out and you'd actually have a very competitive championship. A few years without the Dublin tanks plowing through could be just the ingredient to help the fields around Leinster flourish and get some badly needed confidence after almost 16 years of total dominance.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 20/06/2022 18:28:55    2426468

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i have a brilliant idea its amazing no one ever thought of it before its so revolutinary how about a senior intermediate and junior grade in the championship, Then almost every team in the country has a chance of getting to play a senior final on croke park and pick up a winners medal. Better games less negativity as team of similar standard play each other more attacking set ups as teams not afraid of getting tanked. Tailteann competition should be showing the gaa snobs that it is the way to go.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 241 - 20/06/2022 20:19:54    2426480

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Replying To oneoff:  "Coming from the man who suggested that teams be put into higher divisions just for the sake of it."
Who said just for the sake of it? And my my, you're quite obsessed with me, aren't you?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 20/06/2022 21:24:54    2426486

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Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Front door by no means always the handy route.. Clare can get to the last 4 by losing to Limerick (Div 3 last year) beating Meath (Struggling to stay in Div 2) beating Roscommon (Div 2 last year won div 2 league now DIV 1) if they overcome Derry, a team still in DIV 2.
Galway had to beat the AI and NFL runners up Mayo, Leitrim and Roscommon and are rewarded with another DIV 1 game against Armagh if they are to progress to the last 4. Dublin did of course get more or less a bye into the the semi drawing cork

giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1128 - 21/06/2022 08:36:23    2426490

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Who said just for the sake of it? And my my, you're quite obsessed with me, aren't you?"
You did. Numerous times. No just like pointing out how you dismiss anything anyone else says when your own "suggestions" make no sense whatsoever.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 21/06/2022 09:46:12    2426497

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It's all very well saying that we put the provinicials back earlier in the year and separate from the All Ireland series. A waste of time because we already have that in January. The Ulster council will not give up their marquee competition without a fight. I also think that there has to be some tanglible reward for winning a provincial title other than just local bragging rights. e.g. a home AI series QF?

So we either do away with them completely (not likely) and look at a radically alternative structure


e.g. amalgamate Munster and Leinster which would contain 17 teams (11 Leinster & 6 Munster).
Prelim match drawn amongst the lowest ranked 9 teams to eliminate one team.
Open draw amongst 16 remaining teams.

In this scenario Kerry could conceivably have to play Cork, Kildare, Westmeath and Dublin to win a provincial.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7971 - 21/06/2022 11:00:51    2426535

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Replying To oneoff:  "You did. Numerous times. No just like pointing out how you dismiss anything anyone else says when your own "suggestions" make no sense whatsoever."
You seem to get very angry about my posts. Maybe you should start ignoring me (which I wish you would, as you're a dose) as you seem to get very worked up. Feel free to scroll past my posts, a message here is not an invitation for you to reply every time.

And for the record, I had a suggestion to align Leagues with the split nature of the Championship, to make things more homogenous and easier to see the split and it being more visible and transparent. No one is on about putting teams into a higher division for the sake of it, but aligning them with Championship if that's how they are going to split it going forward. What I suggested is that the Sam teams would still be the top 2 divisions, and the Tailteann teams the bottom 2, so no one is being put above their station. But you frothed at the mouth to this, even though it made a lot of sense to anyone looking closely at it. Sure it was the layout we had pre 2008. It would only be going back to that. Was tiering of the leagues then not putting teams higher for the sake of it, using your logic?

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 21/06/2022 11:39:01    2426560

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Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
I'd settle for Dublin having to play all leinster games away from home. At least in neutral venues. Bringing integrity into a competition should be the first move.

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 150 - 21/06/2022 11:50:24    2426567

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "You seem to get very angry about my posts. Maybe you should start ignoring me (which I wish you would, as you're a dose) as you seem to get very worked up. Feel free to scroll past my posts, a message here is not an invitation for you to reply every time.

And for the record, I had a suggestion to align Leagues with the split nature of the Championship, to make things more homogenous and easier to see the split and it being more visible and transparent. No one is on about putting teams into a higher division for the sake of it, but aligning them with Championship if that's how they are going to split it going forward. What I suggested is that the Sam teams would still be the top 2 divisions, and the Tailteann teams the bottom 2, so no one is being put above their station. But you frothed at the mouth to this, even though it made a lot of sense to anyone looking closely at it. Sure it was the layout we had pre 2008. It would only be going back to that. Was tiering of the leagues then not putting teams higher for the sake of it, using your logic?"
I'm just pointing out the flaws as you'd say yourself. It's you who seems to get angry with anyone who doesn't agree with you.

For a start the league was always tiered. Typically that's how a league works is it not?

Again trying to twist things. You want division 3/4 teams pur in witg stronger teams for no reason other than just because.

I don't know why I'm actually replying to you as you're not going to listen to anything other than your own "suggestions"

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 21/06/2022 12:05:05    2426584

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Replying To oneoff:  "I'm just pointing out the flaws as you'd say yourself. It's you who seems to get angry with anyone who doesn't agree with you.

For a start the league was always tiered. Typically that's how a league works is it not?

Again trying to twist things. You want division 3/4 teams pur in witg stronger teams for no reason other than just because.

I don't know why I'm actually replying to you as you're not going to listen to anything other than your own "suggestions""
Right, last time I swear. Nowhere did I say put Division 3 or 4 teams higher. You need to go back and do some reading. What I said was retier Division 1 and 2 into 1a and 1b, and retier 3 and 4 into 2a and 2b. So no one is being put above their station, you're just organising the Leagues to mirror the Championship, and then it's proper meritocracy from there. And it makes sense on many levels, definitely more than what we have now. Where have I said that about 3/4 teams? As I didn't...

And I'm not angry. I'm merely surprised that you keep coming back to regularly reply to me, with conversations from many months ago. Was it stewing in your head all this time? Am I living there rent free? Time to let it go fella, I'm allowed opinions, and you're allowed to ignore them

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 21/06/2022 12:27:29    2426606

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Right, last time I swear. Nowhere did I say put Division 3 or 4 teams higher. You need to go back and do some reading. What I said was retier Division 1 and 2 into 1a and 1b, and retier 3 and 4 into 2a and 2b. So no one is being put above their station, you're just organising the Leagues to mirror the Championship, and then it's proper meritocracy from there. And it makes sense on many levels, definitely more than what we have now. Where have I said that about 3/4 teams? As I didn't...

And I'm not angry. I'm merely surprised that you keep coming back to regularly reply to me, with conversations from many months ago. Was it stewing in your head all this time? Am I living there rent free? Time to let it go fella, I'm allowed opinions, and you're allowed to ignore them"
But you did. In fact you said lower level teams should be brought up without thrm doing anything.

Did I say you can't have opinions? It's you who doesn't like any opinions thst aren't the same as yours.

Anyway you keep living in your little world where you're always right and if you're not you'll just change the goal posts to suit you.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 21/06/2022 15:05:57    2426670

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Lads, ye should start yer own he said, I didn't say thread.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6771 - 21/06/2022 15:31:08    2426678

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Lads, ye should start yer own he said, I didn't say thread."
I wish he would. As he's getting mad at something I didn't say.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 21/06/2022 15:41:54    2426682

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "I wish he would. As he's getting mad at something I didn't say."
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 21/06/2022 15:48:18    2426683

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Less than two pages before this thread descended into WUM-ville.
Impressive!

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 198 - 21/06/2022 16:23:43    2426695

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