National Forum

The One Change That Would Revitialise The Entire Football Championship

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Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 20/06/2022 11:45:15    2426330

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 20/06/2022 12:15:46    2426342

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely."
I hear you but at the end of the day, London and New York has not messed with the Connacht championship nor has Galway in Leinster hurling.

For the greater good, I'd think its worth a shot. Otherwise yes kill them entirely and bang goes over 100 years of tradition and four major trophies to win annually.

You'd want it to mean something and I think Dublin and their fans would relish the novelty factor but let the Dubs decide if I'm bonkers :)

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 178 - 20/06/2022 12:22:20    2426345

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely."
Totally agree. If you're to start moving teams around provinces then just dispense with provincials altogether and go open draw with a champions league style format.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4497 - 20/06/2022 12:24:14    2426346

Link

There were motions for counties to move into other provinces. They did not gain traction.
The league is now a qualifier system. If Ulster counties are going well in the league, they'll be fine. Ulster ironically are the biggest supporters of retaining the provincial championships. Munster hurling then are the same. Both provincial councils have financial reasons for being content, as do the county boards within the provinces.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6834 - 20/06/2022 12:29:36    2426347

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
You must be having a laugh? That is not the Answer. The provincial championships are dead and there's no coming back from that. Its not a fair system. Imagine telling someone that isn't from Ireland that we have 4 provincial championships but they are split up into to 6 team, 7 teams, 9 teams and 11 teams. The Provincial championships should have no baring on the All Ireland championships they should be two totally different competitions.

A better option would be to play the Provincials in February and March. The weather would be bad and this would mean for closer games between the teams.

Then run the league and championship from April to July.

The league should stay the same with the top 16 teams (Div 1/2 teams) at the end of the league entering the All Ireland Championship and the bottom 16 teams (Div 3/4 teams) entering the Tailteann Cup.

Both competitions will run side by side with 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 form each group qualifying for the QFs.

Each county will be guarantee 10 league/championship games which the players will love.

Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 189 - 20/06/2022 12:31:20    2426348

Link

I know it's not a structural change to the championship but ban hand passing. I'd love to see it trialed for a year. It would change how teams react to blanket defences and would reduce the amount of possession based play. It could also bring back the skill v fitness ratio somewhat.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 233 - 20/06/2022 13:13:15    2426359

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind

eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1079 - 20/06/2022 13:18:19    2426362

Link

Replying To eoinog:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
And your solutions are?? No point knocking everything here- you seem to disagree with everything and everyone and pick rows and it is not wanted. Some people here actually are coming up with good ideas but with negative attitudes like yours nothing will ever change. I really wish you would desist- it is tiresome in that main please. Thank you so much.

howdareu (USA) - Posts: 190 - 20/06/2022 13:33:49    2426371

Link

Replying To howdareu:  "
Replying To eoinog:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
And your solutions are?? No point knocking everything here- you seem to disagree with everything and everyone and pick rows and it is not wanted. Some people here actually are coming up with good ideas but with negative attitudes like yours nothing will ever change. I really wish you would desist- it is tiresome in that main please. Thank you so much."]Interesting reply from a poster who got into a row on the Leitrim site as he was accused of having more than one account and usernames and on the Roscommon forum you are wondering would Liam Kerins take over despite the fact that there is currently a manager in place.
I am not aware of any row I have caused. I have fully embraced the Tailteann Cup, the location of the games in Croke Park (again unlike you) I have defended managers of County teams in Sligo, Roscommon and Leitrim as I believe manager bashing is not helpful to anyone. Does all this mean I am negative. However you float and try and pick rows and arguments. This is one row that won't happen as I won't lower myself to get into an argument with you.To go back to the post, anyone who thinks that Dublin getting parachuted into the Munster Championship will help Gaelic Football really needs to take their temperature, and sit in a dark room for a while.

eoinog (Sligo) - Posts: 1079 - 20/06/2022 14:17:05    2426386

Link

Replying To MachaireConnacht:  "I know it's not a structural change to the championship but ban hand passing. I'd love to see it trialed for a year. It would change how teams react to blanket defences and would reduce the amount of possession based play. It could also bring back the skill v fitness ratio somewhat."
Well done, you managed to come up with a worse suggestion than the original post

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 1887 - 20/06/2022 14:18:00    2426387

Link

Stick Dublin or Kerry in Ulster and give them Fermanaghs potential route to the last 8 this year (Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry) and I'll tell you one thing Dublin and Kerry wouldn't have as many All Irelands as they have.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 844 - 20/06/2022 14:31:33    2426395

Link

Time to close this thread before it gets any worse

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 377 - 20/06/2022 15:05:09    2426411

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "
Replying To Whammo86:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely."
I hear you but at the end of the day, London and New York has not messed with the Connacht championship nor has Galway in Leinster hurling.

For the greater good, I'd think its worth a shot. Otherwise yes kill them entirely and bang goes over 100 years of tradition and four major trophies to win annually.

You'd want it to mean something and I think Dublin and their fans would relish the novelty factor but let the Dubs decide if I'm bonkers :)"]Yes and no re Galway. Yes the championship is better for us and neutrals with another good team in it.
But just how important is winning a Leinster to them? Ask Stoolpigeon one of their posters on here. No kids in Galway grow up dreaming of winning a Leinstwr Championship. No aul fellas in Galway bars wax lyrical about great Leinster games from yesteryear. Nor will they in 20 or 30 years time.
No Dub is going to give a #### about winning Munster I'd say. Beating Kerry? Yes to a certain extent. Playing away to Waterford in Walsh Park of a cold wet day in March or April? Doubt it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5574 - 20/06/2022 15:18:23    2426414

Link

Replying To eoinog:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
He lives in Donegal. Sun is hardly the issue!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5574 - 20/06/2022 15:19:14    2426415

Link

Replying To eoinog:  "
Replying To howdareu:  "[quote=eoinog:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
And your solutions are?? No point knocking everything here- you seem to disagree with everything and everyone and pick rows and it is not wanted. Some people here actually are coming up with good ideas but with negative attitudes like yours nothing will ever change. I really wish you would desist- it is tiresome in that main please. Thank you so much."]Interesting reply from a poster who got into a row on the Leitrim site as he was accused of having more than one account and usernames and on the Roscommon forum you are wondering would Liam Kerins take over despite the fact that there is currently a manager in place.
I am not aware of any row I have caused. I have fully embraced the Tailteann Cup, the location of the games in Croke Park (again unlike you) I have defended managers of County teams in Sligo, Roscommon and Leitrim as I believe manager bashing is not helpful to anyone. Does all this mean I am negative. However you float and try and pick rows and arguments. This is one row that won't happen as I won't lower myself to get into an argument with you.To go back to the post, anyone who thinks that Dublin getting parachuted into the Munster Championship will help Gaelic Football really needs to take their temperature, and sit in a dark room for a while."]I have obviously touched a rawr nerve indeed. Yes I was accused of that indeed. But its untrue you see. One can be accused of things but it does not make them true. Thank you for listing all your achievements. Very helpful. I hope you have a nice evening.

howdareu (USA) - Posts: 190 - 20/06/2022 15:29:50    2426419

Link

Replying To shaggykev:  "
Replying To Whammo86:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely."
I hear you but at the end of the day, London and New York has not messed with the Connacht championship nor has Galway in Leinster hurling.

For the greater good, I'd think its worth a shot. Otherwise yes kill them entirely and bang goes over 100 years of tradition and four major trophies to win annually.

You'd want it to mean something and I think Dublin and their fans would relish the novelty factor but let the Dubs decide if I'm bonkers :)"]It's not worth a shot.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5806 - 20/06/2022 15:43:22    2426422

Link

Replying To howdareu:  "
Replying To eoinog:  "[quote=shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Come in out of the sun. It has fried your thoughts and mind"
And your solutions are?? No point knocking everything here- you seem to disagree with everything and everyone and pick rows and it is not wanted. Some people here actually are coming up with good ideas but with negative attitudes like yours nothing will ever change. I really wish you would desist- it is tiresome in that main please. Thank you so much."]Coming from the man who disagrees with absolutely everything that doesn't suit him.

As ever there's no suggestions from you. Just telling everyone else they're wrong.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 20/06/2022 15:45:25    2426423

Link

Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Well done, you managed to come up with a worse suggestion than the original post"
Coming from the man who suggested that teams be put into higher divisions just for the sake of it.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 997 - 20/06/2022 15:47:39    2426424

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To shaggykev:  "Rule changes, revamps and restructures have been incessant for over a decade now and next year we will move to the new system with 16 counties (8 provincial finalists as well as the next-best eight counties based on their league ranking) into groups of 4 with winners making quarter finals and second and third in playoff.

It will mean the provincial championship will now be even more blitzed through and for the top eight teams is basically a warm up tournament. Even the group stages will not have that cut throat edge to it as 3rd placed teams can still make it to an All Ireland Quarter final.

The great irony is this years stop gap championship has actually revealed the best structure in decades. The pace is good with basically a game every two weeks and with the weaker sides gone to the Tailtean Cup, it means losing a provincial game is fraught with danger as Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo & Monaghan found out. Thats the purpose. Going through the front door is the optimum route. The backdoor is a second chance fraught with danger. Softer routes are unlikely.

If it was left like this, the championship itself would be tasty enough and give us meaningful competitive games most weeks.

The issues that always remain though are.

Munster is unbalanced with teams.

Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin.


So you have a situation where Derry need to go through Tyrone, Monaghan & Donegal and Armagh need to go through Donegal, Tyrone and Donegal again to get to the same place Kerry got to via Cork and Limerick. And in Leinster, its the hope that will kill any resurge in any county with Dublin back handing out beatings again. Attendances could go even lower in the next few years from an already low base.

The Solution

For three years put Dublin into the Munster Football Championship.

Why?

1. Dublin on the road into a province that has the stadiums to host away matches with no capacity issues.
2. Rebalancing championship (could add one more Leinster team on rotation to make it eight in Munster)
3. Kerry get meaningful opposition for three years with a danger of either Dublin or Kerry ending up in the backdoor making the provinces even more important to win.
4. Poor Dublin dont get saddled with 13 in a row.
5. The biggest reason. It revitalises the Leinster Championship. The rest of Leinster sees an opportunity with the deck not against them and can build up their fanbase, player base and standards.

Already some green shoots in underage but this not only gives Meath and Kildare the impetus to win silverware but also the likes of Offaly and Westmeath. Suddenly panels will see something to play for and by making it three years, it gives county boards that kick up the you know what to get into gear in an achievable window.

When Dublin come back after 3 years, they'd be meeting sides that have experience of winning and a higher standard Leinster Championship overall.

Also just imagine. Kerry v Dublin in Killarney for the Munster Championship Final on a warm June Bank Holiday weekend.

Thoughts?"
Nah, if you're messing with the make up of the provincials you should just separate them from the All Ireland completely."
Hopefully that will happen. It seems to be written in stone that the provincial leagues go first, then the national league, then provincial championship followed by the Sam Maguire/Tailteann Cup, competing teams determined by who won province and was runner up. Not forgetting the layer added in for the back door to give so called weaker counties, mar dhea, the golden carrot of 'an extra game'. Because it 'wasn't fair' that when you lose a championship game you're out. Seemed fair enough to previous intercounty teams?

A load of rubbish, more games, more money for the GAA. The route to Sam Maguire is much tougher for Ulster teams. Not a level playing field. Why not use that provincial league time to give so-called weaker counties games against a higher standard team in some type of league or knockout cup, could include colleges, county teams of squad players from stronger counties. Anyways, back to the provincial championship and the obsession with intercounty competitions finishing before the next level starts. Why not completely separate the provincial championships from All Ireland but start them during the league but scrap league finals, whoever tops the division wins the cup. Then something like have 3 rounds of the league, then preliminary rounds of provincials. League round 4 and first round provincials and mix them somehow until leagues finish and two weeks gap until the provincial finals in one weekend. If that sounds a but like soccer it's because it is! Like soccer or rugby every county, based on their league and provincial championship performance could get a coefficient and rank for All Ireland Championship.

link

Based on that make a seeded draw for All Ireland. Pot A top 16, Pot B bottom 16. First round losers go into Tailteann Cup. Remaining 16 go into an open draw, for last 16,8,4. Knockout championsip football.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 6770 - 20/06/2022 17:02:01    2426448

Link