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2022 All-Ireland Hurling Championship thread

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Replying To Canuck:  "There is a lot in what you are saying for sure. The new system while entertaining is as badly flawed as what went before it. Firstly it is said over and over the league doe not matter. Ask us. Why continue with something that does not matter. Money ? Not sure but that argument is obsolete.
1.Scrap the league and other excuse me competitions.
2. Form three divisions with two up and two down.
3. Joe McDonagh gone. The bottom end of each division will get to play teams of their own caliber getting points while getting the experience to play better teams and start to pick off teams above them. If they are up and down it is because not doing enough or not good enough. The next division has the opportunity to pick them off.
4. If the provincial championship is two hard to let go let the two top teams from the province play for it.
The championship starts in March or go with club first and finish the inter county by the middle of Sept. Games may even get closer to each other than now but if you are carrying a panel of two teams manage it."
The League is what it is. The second most important title in the year. Same as it always was. Did you not feel a bit of joy when you won it this year? I know I would but then I was only 2 the last time we won one. Only problem with it this year was the gap to championship was only 2 weeks. I don't get why lads continuously want to change structures for no good reason. The Joe Mac is a great competition. Ask anybody from the counties in it. Why should it be scrapped because a few big counties are out of the championship after 4 games? Years ago counties often only got 1 championship game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5275 - 10/06/2022 19:01:52    2423837

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Replying To daveboy:  "If hawkeye can't decide its a point its signalled wide as the umpire couldn't decide real time if its over the bar. Hawkeye is used to confirm its a point. If the umpire isn't sure its a point and hawkeye can't either then the decision is its wide. In thurles hawkeye did confirm it was wide as the old scoreboard flashed "níl" . Hawkeye was correctly in use in thurles."
Haven't seen this mentioned but when the Hawkeye decision was requested, there was a medical emergency in the front of the stand, close to where Tony Kelly took that sideline to draw the game.

A few people around us in the terrace suggested that nothing was put on screen because the camera co-ordinator didn't want to risk pictures of the medical emergency being seen. One person close to me saw 'Nil' flash up on the screen for a split second. So I agree, Hawkeye did work correctly.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6323 - 10/06/2022 20:54:59    2423843

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Replying To Canuck:  "There is a lot in what you are saying for sure. The new system while entertaining is as badly flawed as what went before it. Firstly it is said over and over the league doe not matter. Ask us. Why continue with something that does not matter. Money ? Not sure but that argument is obsolete.
1.Scrap the league and other excuse me competitions.
2. Form three divisions with two up and two down.
3. Joe McDonagh gone. The bottom end of each division will get to play teams of their own caliber getting points while getting the experience to play better teams and start to pick off teams above them. If they are up and down it is because not doing enough or not good enough. The next division has the opportunity to pick them off.
4. If the provincial championship is two hard to let go let the two top teams from the province play for it.
The championship starts in March or go with club first and finish the inter county by the middle of Sept. Games may even get closer to each other than now but if you are carrying a panel of two teams manage it."
I can't understand this fascination with the league. It is and always has been a combination of matches to allow teams to prepare for the championship . That's it. That's all its ever been. It's nice to win it. But it's a prep competition for the real stuff.

The round Robin is an excellent format in my opinion. If you're not in the top 3 you're not good enough on that particular year. End of.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 797 - 10/06/2022 21:19:05    2423847

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Replying To daveboy:  "I can't understand this fascination with the league. It is and always has been a combination of matches to allow teams to prepare for the championship . That's it. That's all its ever been. It's nice to win it. But it's a prep competition for the real stuff.

The round Robin is an excellent format in my opinion. If you're not in the top 3 you're not good enough on that particular year. End of."
Very true. In 1993 Cork and Wexford went to a second replay in the NHL final. As far as I know both lost in provincial semi finals.

There have been years where teams have gained massive momentum from the league but that has usually been where counties have a very competitive panel and used the league to tap into that competition - eg Tipp 2001, Limerick 2019, Kilkenny for a number of seasons.

As a Limerick fan I loved the NHL finals of 84, 85, 92 & 97 but the best we did in championship was Munster runners up in 92. We had hammered Cork in the NHL semi final in April but they gave us a trimming in the Munster Final. As daveboy says it is a preparatory tournament and the third most important to any McCarthy cup team. Nice to win but means a lot more if accompanied by championship success.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6323 - 11/06/2022 08:56:03    2423866

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Replying To Viking66:  "The League is what it is. The second most important title in the year. Same as it always was. Did you not feel a bit of joy when you won it this year? I know I would but then I was only 2 the last time we won one. Only problem with it this year was the gap to championship was only 2 weeks. I don't get why lads continuously want to change structures for no good reason. The Joe Mac is a great competition. Ask anybody from the counties in it. Why should it be scrapped because a few big counties are out of the championship after 4 games? Years ago counties often only got 1 championship game."
That should read national title. Obviously a provincial title is more important overall

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5275 - 11/06/2022 11:00:56    2423879

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Replying To slayer:  "Very true. In 1993 Cork and Wexford went to a second replay in the NHL final. As far as I know both lost in provincial semi finals.

There have been years where teams have gained massive momentum from the league but that has usually been where counties have a very competitive panel and used the league to tap into that competition - eg Tipp 2001, Limerick 2019, Kilkenny for a number of seasons.

As a Limerick fan I loved the NHL finals of 84, 85, 92 & 97 but the best we did in championship was Munster runners up in 92. We had hammered Cork in the NHL semi final in April but they gave us a trimming in the Munster Final. As daveboy says it is a preparatory tournament and the third most important to any McCarthy cup team. Nice to win but means a lot more if accompanied by championship success."
Historically the League has had merit right up until 2017 when Galway did the double. Teams performing well in the league generally were the teams that served notice of their championship ambitions and were also the teams to beat come championship. Kilkenny and Tipp tended to contest the league in the late noughties and they were the 2 teams well ahead of the competition in the championship also. But the round robin changed all that as it was inevitably going to do. Some supporters and maybe even teams have been slow to cop onto this but it is the reality. Even though Alliance used the generally held perception of it ( "Only the League") in their advertising of the competition even they surely must be taking notice that the league has been degraded to the status of a pre-season competition with the introduction of the round robin and surely must be wondering if there are not better uses they could make of their sports sponsorship.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1676 - 11/06/2022 11:06:40    2423880

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Replying To daveboy:  "I can't understand this fascination with the league. It is and always has been a combination of matches to allow teams to prepare for the championship . That's it. That's all its ever been. It's nice to win it. But it's a prep competition for the real stuff.

The round Robin is an excellent format in my opinion. If you're not in the top 3 you're not good enough on that particular year. End of."
I agree with you but i've always felt managers and players not really caring about the league, while understandable, is a bad move from a PR perspective.
The sole focus on championship essentially means that while Connacht rugby and galway United are playing the best part of 20-25 meaningful games a year, our counties are playing a fraction of that.
Because of this, I can see in the long run rugby and soccer gaining a lot of traction over the gaa when it comes to winning the battle for hearts and minds.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1132 - 11/06/2022 11:54:36    2423893

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I agree with you but i've always felt managers and players not really caring about the league, while understandable, is a bad move from a PR perspective.
The sole focus on championship essentially means that while Connacht rugby and galway United are playing the best part of 20-25 meaningful games a year, our counties are playing a fraction of that.
Because of this, I can see in the long run rugby and soccer gaining a lot of traction over the gaa when it comes to winning the battle for hearts and minds."
You're talking about professional v amateur. Lads can't go 6 months on the trot at their peak due to the nature of the amateur game. They have to put down 40-45 hour weeks on top of training/gym/matches. This is why I said a few months back that the key word in modern hurling is "freshness". Mental and physical freshness. It's why limerick came back mid January as opposed to early December as they've had long seasons for 4 years on the trot. Hurling has gone very professional in all but the players ability to recover/rest due to work commitments. This is why the league is the league and a 3-4 month championship is plenty long for a meaningful season. I'm a season ticket holder and go to all league matched because I love the game and love bringing my kids. I love to see new players/fringe players put their hand up. I love seeing the best the opposition have also and where they are. It sustains the appetite.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 797 - 11/06/2022 12:45:21    2423903

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Replying To daveboy:  "You're talking about professional v amateur. Lads can't go 6 months on the trot at their peak due to the nature of the amateur game. They have to put down 40-45 hour weeks on top of training/gym/matches. This is why I said a few months back that the key word in modern hurling is "freshness". Mental and physical freshness. It's why limerick came back mid January as opposed to early December as they've had long seasons for 4 years on the trot. Hurling has gone very professional in all but the players ability to recover/rest due to work commitments. This is why the league is the league and a 3-4 month championship is plenty long for a meaningful season. I'm a season ticket holder and go to all league matched because I love the game and love bringing my kids. I love to see new players/fringe players put their hand up. I love seeing the best the opposition have also and where they are. It sustains the appetite."
A busier calender, along with a greater emphasis on the league, would definitely take a greater toll on the players, but this could be offset though, by mangers having to restructure their training regimes, as you mentioned limerick did.
I read once, avd this was nearly ten years ago, so it's probably out of date but still close enough to modern times, that the ratio of training sessions to games is 25:1. I'd say the players hate that dynamic.
A more balanced ratio would if anything suit the players.
Thing is I don't really know how you'd go about making the league more relevant.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1132 - 11/06/2022 13:00:28    2423907

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Replying To slayer:  "Very true. In 1993 Cork and Wexford went to a second replay in the NHL final. As far as I know both lost in provincial semi finals.

There have been years where teams have gained massive momentum from the league but that has usually been where counties have a very competitive panel and used the league to tap into that competition - eg Tipp 2001, Limerick 2019, Kilkenny for a number of seasons.

As a Limerick fan I loved the NHL finals of 84, 85, 92 & 97 but the best we did in championship was Munster runners up in 92. We had hammered Cork in the NHL semi final in April but they gave us a trimming in the Munster Final. As daveboy says it is a preparatory tournament and the third most important to any McCarthy cup team. Nice to win but means a lot more if accompanied by championship success."
Wexford lost the '93 Leinster final after a replay to Kilkenny who went on to win the All-Ireland.

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 326 - 11/06/2022 13:13:09    2423908

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Replying To WEX98:  "Wexford lost the '93 Leinster final after a replay to Kilkenny who went on to win the All-Ireland."
That team was knocking on the door for a good while before 96. 92 we lost in the Leinster final to KK. 94 we lost to AI winners Offaly in the Leinster final after looking slightly undercooked after an easy semi against Laois. 95 we lost again to Offaly this time in the SF when tbh I thought we were the better team despite losing by 6 or 7 points. Each time the team we lost to at least reached the AI final if they didn't win it which they did in 92, 93 and 94.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5275 - 11/06/2022 13:34:04    2423909

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Replying To WEX98:  "Wexford lost the '93 Leinster final after a replay to Kilkenny who went on to win the All-Ireland."
Wexford should have won the drawn Leinster Final albeit that Kilkenny's equalising point at the death was a masterclass in clinical efficiency.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1727 - 11/06/2022 13:48:36    2423912

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Replying To daveboy:  "I can't understand this fascination with the league. It is and always has been a combination of matches to allow teams to prepare for the championship . That's it. That's all its ever been. It's nice to win it. But it's a prep competition for the real stuff.

The round Robin is an excellent format in my opinion. If you're not in the top 3 you're not good enough on that particular year. End of."
That's the point there is no fascination with league anymore. It is as you say a training league. In other sports they call that pre-season games and no trying to put lipstick on the pig will make it any better. People in Waterford were in different also to winning it this year and 10 of them would not compensate to having no All-Ireland since 1959. When you have managers saying they want to get to the semi final what does that mean ? Its couched words for saying I don't want to play to the end to win it. I can not see this manager in Waterford or any in the future touching it with a 40 foot pole any time in the near future. Kilkenny used to win them at will but a no pressure championship game was down the road with a gap.
The robin is good but far from being excellent and not because we did not advance. We were not good enough. It its flawed. A team can be out of the premier competition on a one point scoring difference (potentially) after winning the same number of games as an opponent. In hurling a point where grounds have no hawk eye? An example if Tipp and us were in this position this year Tipp would have been robbed. A ball went between the post and waved wide. A Patrick Curran free went a foot wide and called a point. Is the 3rd team in one province better that the fourth in the other? The way the breaks are structured with what teams you may get before and after them. This may happen with any system but the significancy in this structure is crucial. For me it is an open draw where we know if in the heat of championship if Wexford is better than Waterford or Waterford are better than Dublin and the worst two teams are relegated. The best two team in division two are promoted.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2104 - 11/06/2022 14:14:36    2423916

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Antrim leading at half time, albeit with a bit of a breeze

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 181 - 11/06/2022 14:45:16    2423920

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Kerry were only a point or two down after the first quarter. A difficult afternoon overall but this game today is better than 7 years at McDonagh level.
Fair play to Antrim who were competitive against Cork. Consistent with their early league form. They'll be competitive in Leinster next year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6799 - 11/06/2022 15:54:32    2423934

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We were competitive for long parts of the game but sometimes the scoreline doesn't reflect that. Hurling at this level can be cruel and in the space of a few scores you can be chasing a match. Antrim have definitely improved skill wise and tactically but we need to learn to go for the full 70 mins. It's this mindset and stamina we have to work on. Cork had the streetwise knowledge and experience to pull away and they did so well done to them.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9492 - 11/06/2022 16:04:01    2423937

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Replying To Canuck:  "That's the point there is no fascination with league anymore. It is as you say a training league. In other sports they call that pre-season games and no trying to put lipstick on the pig will make it any better. People in Waterford were in different also to winning it this year and 10 of them would not compensate to having no All-Ireland since 1959. When you have managers saying they want to get to the semi final what does that mean ? Its couched words for saying I don't want to play to the end to win it. I can not see this manager in Waterford or any in the future touching it with a 40 foot pole any time in the near future. Kilkenny used to win them at will but a no pressure championship game was down the road with a gap.
The robin is good but far from being excellent and not because we did not advance. We were not good enough. It its flawed. A team can be out of the premier competition on a one point scoring difference (potentially) after winning the same number of games as an opponent. In hurling a point where grounds have no hawk eye? An example if Tipp and us were in this position this year Tipp would have been robbed. A ball went between the post and waved wide. A Patrick Curran free went a foot wide and called a point. Is the 3rd team in one province better that the fourth in the other? The way the breaks are structured with what teams you may get before and after them. This may happen with any system but the significancy in this structure is crucial. For me it is an open draw where we know if in the heat of championship if Wexford is better than Waterford or Waterford are better than Dublin and the worst two teams are relegated. The best two team in division two are promoted."
We already have 1 of those type competitions. It's called the League because its a league type competition.
The championship was always knockout. It was diluted with a backdoor. Then diluted some more with a round robin. All to get more games. There's enough games now.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5275 - 11/06/2022 16:21:52    2423943

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Have Peter Duggan and Rory Hayes received a one match ban each for their respective dirty play against Limerick? And has Fahy the Galway lad received a 2-match ban for stamping on the head of his Kilkenny opponent? I was told this over the phone, but cannot find any written word of it online.

If so, Hayes and Duggan will be huge losses vs. Wexford. With Hayes out, who was having a great year in the full-back line, it could disrupt the cohesiveness of that last line of defence, who til now have kept goals pretty much out.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1204 - 11/06/2022 17:19:54    2423957

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Replying To WEX98:  "Wexford lost the '93 Leinster final after a replay to Kilkenny who went on to win the All-Ireland."
Thanks Wexford.

Do you think the league run was a help to ye that year or did it make any difference?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6323 - 11/06/2022 18:03:30    2423981

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Have Peter Duggan and Rory Hayes received a one match ban each for their respective dirty play against Limerick? And has Fahy the Galway lad received a 2-match ban for stamping on the head of his Kilkenny opponent? I was told this over the phone, but cannot find any written word of it online.

If so, Hayes and Duggan will be huge losses vs. Wexford. With Hayes out, who was having a great year in the full-back line, it could disrupt the cohesiveness of that last line of defence, who til now have kept goals pretty much out."
According to the Irish examiner Duggan & Fahey are potentially looking at being cited. The incidents were discussed at the referees meeting on Thursday night. I'm not sure if a ban has been imposed yet.

Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 395 - 11/06/2022 18:12:05    2423983

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