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Should Referees Assessments Be Made Public

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50 cent a mile plus meal for ref and umpires. No match fee. Ref who travels 70 miles to a venue gets €70 for a day that's on average 8-9 hours long. Hardly well recompensed Sourmilk??

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 605 - 21/01/2022 14:35:59    2395878

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "He gets his expenses and it can vary."
So they are far from professional.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 21/01/2022 14:46:18    2395879

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "They are Volunteers but the get a nice few bob for it. Not doing it for nothing.
In comparison with soccer in the last few days a Soccer ref is facing a lengthy suspension for making a game deciding mistake in an AC Milan game. Big difference between that and recent Mountbellew game"
Referees in Serie A (Italian soccer league) are fully professional. They get paid a basic salary of €180,000 and a €3,500 per match fee.
Yeah, there is a "big difference between that and recent Mountbellew game".

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1741 - 21/01/2022 14:55:46    2395880

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Referees in Serie A (Italian soccer league) are fully professional. They get paid a basic salary of €180,000 and a €3,500 per match fee.
Yeah, there is a "big difference between that and recent Mountbellew game"."
That is some money for soccer referees!
Looking at soccer on TV, I they have 10 decisions that challenge them in a game, that is as many.
GAA referees have far more to do.
I hope that referees in GAA never get such enormous sums of money and that the current practice of a nominal fee is retained.
Money does not help things at all on the context of lookng for improved consistency.
Referees should not be out of pocket but it should not be a profession either.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1698 - 21/01/2022 16:30:36    2395893

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I always remember at a referee's seminar, the guy given it said "No one minds a crap ref, as long as the crap is consistent". BTW GAA rules are woefully inconsistent and ill-defined so I guess we really shouldn't be surprised if the results can be unsatisfactory. I don't think publishing assessments would help one bit.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4747 - 21/01/2022 17:02:08    2395896

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On the question of professionalism. There are many paying jobs in the GAA under the banner of necessity to administrate our games. Is refereeing not one of the most important and fundamental administration jobs in the GAA? We had one poster on here suggesting that the referees have no investment in the games. Go figure ? That sort of sums up the attitude towards their contribution. Drawing a similarity with your day job how long would you stay if your employer subjected you to verbal abuse never mind physical.
I will admit I know little about the training refs get and only learning from here what financial expenses they receive. How much do they get from this in the year compared to managers travelling three or four times a week, getting cars and other perks. It would seem to me the importance that officiating has in our games that an academy for training and a paying career is justified.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2092 - 21/01/2022 17:18:16    2395897

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Referees are not in a profession, they're volunteers. Rugby and Premier league referees are professional, well paid, world of difference.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 418 - 19/01/2022 14:22:04
Only some rugby refs are professional. others only get match fees and for many theyd get a lot higher wage working in other industries as the salary they get as referees

They are Volunteers but the get a nice few bob for it. Not doing it for nothing.
In comparison with soccer in the last few days a Soccer ref is facing a lengthy suspension for making a game deciding mistake in an AC Milan game. Big difference between that and recent Mountbellew game
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 803 - 21/01/2022 11:33:28

what exactly are you defining as nice few bob? what officials get just about covers costs if even

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 21/01/2022 17:50:09    2395899

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Replying To Canuck:  "On the question of professionalism. There are many paying jobs in the GAA under the banner of necessity to administrate our games. Is refereeing not one of the most important and fundamental administration jobs in the GAA? We had one poster on here suggesting that the referees have no investment in the games. Go figure ? That sort of sums up the attitude towards their contribution. Drawing a similarity with your day job how long would you stay if your employer subjected you to verbal abuse never mind physical.
I will admit I know little about the training refs get and only learning from here what financial expenses they receive. How much do they get from this in the year compared to managers travelling three or four times a week, getting cars and other perks. It would seem to me the importance that officiating has in our games that an academy for training and a paying career is justified."
College basketball refs get about $150/game. Depending on their ranking during the season determines if they get to ref in the NCAA tournament. 1st round in the tournament they get around $1,000/game. The better refs move on were the pay goes up. I coached a 13-14 year old girls basketball team every ref got $50/game and this was 10 years ago. The Gaa should pay their refs something for each game. You will have people lining up to ref. The better the job they do the more chance to get bigger games and make more money. By the way college basketball refs all have full time jobs it is a way to make extra money. The NCAA players are amatuers just like GAA players.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 21/01/2022 20:57:16    2395916

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Replying To gatha:  "College basketball refs get about $150/game. Depending on their ranking during the season determines if they get to ref in the NCAA tournament. 1st round in the tournament they get around $1,000/game. The better refs move on were the pay goes up. I coached a 13-14 year old girls basketball team every ref got $50/game and this was 10 years ago. The Gaa should pay their refs something for each game. You will have people lining up to ref. The better the job they do the more chance to get bigger games and make more money. By the way college basketball refs all have full time jobs it is a way to make extra money. The NCAA players are amatuers just like GAA players."
Yes some sort of incentive to attract more people to reach the top flight. Even if a top 10 were paid 100K a year, a million is a drop in the ocean for the GAA and like you said pay for game for the ones striving to get into the top group. Of course it would open them up to be dismissed and not necessary stop the abuse but be an incentive to achieve a high standard with a career opportunity. I know it will be said the player is not getting paid but administrators are and like I said before officiating deserves to be high on that totem pole.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2092 - 22/01/2022 20:39:33    2395990

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gatha ( kilkenny) of 310 p[osts

Tomsmith here from County Cavan

I see you a junior poster but I hope to do not feel intimidated by a senior Poster posing questions to you
No 1 Am I right to assume you were or are in the USA
No2 You state you coached Girls teams
No3 What was the position if you felt that a total injustice was done to you in relation to an official during a game
No 4 Is in secrecy involved in grading of Officials.
No5 are you advocating more money for GAA Referees ?

i am delighted to see an International view on the secrecy involved in our Gaa game. Perhaps the powers that be will take note of our concerns on behalf of aggrieved losers ( Who can not speak out as it would be viewed as sour grapes)

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3405 - 22/01/2022 21:22:34    2396003

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On the point of payments to referees, I know club referees in county's who travel over an hour to games, be there 45 to an hour before game, ref game and travel home, organise umpires and possibly buy them a coffee or sandwich all for €40 which is paid once a year. Not a great incentive to get people involved.
Not sure what direction it should go but people on here saying referees are handsomely rewarded should educate themselves. Throw in the expenses of umpire coats and bottoms and not alot left over.

reffingmad (Roscommon) - Posts: 276 - 23/01/2022 09:36:36    2396014

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Here in Carlow we don't have too far to travel to go to games. I have enquired re expenses that referees can claim. Its 40 e for a game. That will cover a referees travelling expenses fairly well as the county is small and even from one end of the county to the other, does not take too long.
Having a few extremely well paid offices sounds good but think about that... when or if you pay someone you expect a much higher standard, and if they don't match up to the expected standard, surely they would be open for more abuse .
Money is not always the answer.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1698 - 23/01/2022 12:12:48    2396035

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Replying To carlowman:  "Here in Carlow we don't have too far to travel to go to games. I have enquired re expenses that referees can claim. Its 40 e for a game. That will cover a referees travelling expenses fairly well as the county is small and even from one end of the county to the other, does not take too long.
Having a few extremely well paid offices sounds good but think about that... when or if you pay someone you expect a much higher standard, and if they don't match up to the expected standard, surely they would be open for more abuse .
Money is not always the answer."
I agree money is not always the answer but if you want a higher standard you have to pull from a larger pool. The more people willing to ref the better chance of finding qualified people. 40 or 50 euroes for club games seems reasonable once you go to inter county it should be a good bit more. As far as abuse seeing what refs go through now at times it couldn't get much worse. However you are right money is not the sole solution in a lot of cases it causes more problems.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 23/01/2022 14:16:34    2396053

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Replying To tomsmith:  "gatha ( kilkenny) of 310 p[osts

Tomsmith here from County Cavan

I see you a junior poster but I hope to do not feel intimidated by a senior Poster posing questions to you
No 1 Am I right to assume you were or are in the USA
No2 You state you coached Girls teams
No3 What was the position if you felt that a total injustice was done to you in relation to an official during a game
No 4 Is in secrecy involved in grading of Officials.
No5 are you advocating more money for GAA Referees ?

i am delighted to see an International view on the secrecy involved in our Gaa game. Perhaps the powers that be will take note of our concerns on behalf of aggrieved losers ( Who can not speak out as it would be viewed as sour grapes)"
I am far from intimidated. Didn't even know posters were rated. It seems to me you are just stirring the pot with your conspiracy thread. The only thing i will say is in all the sporting organizations in the US referee's evaluations are never shared with the public. Refs are not available to the press after games for interviews. I do think refs should be paid.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 23/01/2022 14:20:47    2396055

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refs dont need to be paid but get better support be it training, assistance, feedback

That is some money for soccer referees!
Looking at soccer on TV, I they have 10 decisions that challenge them in a game, that is as many.
GAA referees have far more to do.
I hope that referees in GAA never get such enormous sums of money and that the current practice of a nominal fee is retained.
Money does not help things at all on the context of lookng for improved consistency.
Referees should not be out of pocket but it should not be a profession either.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1656 - 21/01/2022 16:30:36
Thats extremely simplistic and with the money in top level soccer they need to get high enough compensation with the level of abuse they have to put up with
Why shouldnt refereeing be a profession?

I always remember at a referee's seminar, the guy given it said "No one minds a crap ref, as long as the crap is consistent". BTW GAA rules are woefully inconsistent and ill-defined so I guess we really shouldn't be surprised if the results can be unsatisfactory. I don't think publishing assessments would help one bit.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 21/01/2022 17:02:08
rules are inconsistent and ill defined but only way that will change is if you change how rules are managed and decided upon

College basketball refs get about $150/game. Depending on their ranking during the season determines if they get to ref in the NCAA tournament. 1st round in the tournament they get around $1,000/game. The better refs move on were the pay goes up. I coached a 13-14 year old girls basketball team every ref got $50/game and this was 10 years ago. The Gaa should pay their refs something for each game. You will have people lining up to ref. The better the job they do the more chance to get bigger games and make more money. By the way college basketball refs all have full time jobs it is a way to make extra money. The NCAA players are amatuers just like GAA players.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 312 - 21/01/2022 20:57:16
you wont get best people suited for refereeing if you make money too high.

I agree money is not always the answer but if you want a higher standard you have to pull from a larger pool. The more people willing to ref the better chance of finding qualified people. 40 or 50 euroes for club games seems reasonable once you go to inter county it should be a good bit more. As far as abuse seeing what refs go through now at times it couldn't get much worse. However you are right money is not the sole solution in a lot of cases it causes more problems.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 312 - 23/01/2022 14:16:34

money is far from what should be looked at to help officials. its training and assessments, that need to be better

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 23/01/2022 18:46:44    2396107

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Replying To KillingFields:  "refs dont need to be paid but get better support be it training, assistance, feedback

That is some money for soccer referees!
Looking at soccer on TV, I they have 10 decisions that challenge them in a game, that is as many.
GAA referees have far more to do.
I hope that referees in GAA never get such enormous sums of money and that the current practice of a nominal fee is retained.
Money does not help things at all on the context of lookng for improved consistency.
Referees should not be out of pocket but it should not be a profession either.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1656 - 21/01/2022 16:30:36
Thats extremely simplistic and with the money in top level soccer they need to get high enough compensation with the level of abuse they have to put up with
Why shouldnt refereeing be a profession?

I always remember at a referee's seminar, the guy given it said "No one minds a crap ref, as long as the crap is consistent". BTW GAA rules are woefully inconsistent and ill-defined so I guess we really shouldn't be surprised if the results can be unsatisfactory. I don't think publishing assessments would help one bit.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 21/01/2022 17:02:08
rules are inconsistent and ill defined but only way that will change is if you change how rules are managed and decided upon

College basketball refs get about $150/game. Depending on their ranking during the season determines if they get to ref in the NCAA tournament. 1st round in the tournament they get around $1,000/game. The better refs move on were the pay goes up. I coached a 13-14 year old girls basketball team every ref got $50/game and this was 10 years ago. The Gaa should pay their refs something for each game. You will have people lining up to ref. The better the job they do the more chance to get bigger games and make more money. By the way college basketball refs all have full time jobs it is a way to make extra money. The NCAA players are amatuers just like GAA players.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 312 - 21/01/2022 20:57:16
you wont get best people suited for refereeing if you make money too high.

I agree money is not always the answer but if you want a higher standard you have to pull from a larger pool. The more people willing to ref the better chance of finding qualified people. 40 or 50 euroes for club games seems reasonable once you go to inter county it should be a good bit more. As far as abuse seeing what refs go through now at times it couldn't get much worse. However you are right money is not the sole solution in a lot of cases it causes more problems.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 312 - 23/01/2022 14:16:34

money is far from what should be looked at to help officials. its training and assessments, that need to be better"
I would agree about the training and that money is not every thing. However it is also fair to say it has a significant influence on other aspects of the game. Top coaches, backroom teams and medical staff etc. I am not employing either that Limerick would be where they are without the brilliant players produced but having funding helps in the development.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2092 - 25/01/2022 19:07:54    2396465

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Gathta County Kilkenny

Tomsmith here from Cunty Cavan

I see you posted a bit about senior posters ect and you forgot to answer the question No 1 to No 5 that I asked you.. Perhaps you could reply at your earliest ... If you are afraid or feel intimidated just write it as you think and as a junior Poster we will understand what you are s aying.

So keep up the Posts and you will someday become a senior poster and feel confident to reply to what was asked of you.

I am far from intimidated. Didn't even know posters were rated. It seems to me you are just stirring the pot with your conspiracy thread. The only thing i will say is in all the sporting organizations in the US referee's evaluations are never shared with the public. Refs are not available to the press after games for interviews. I do think refs should be paid.
gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 312 - 23/01/2022 14:20:47 2396055

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tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3405 - 26/01/2022 19:15:37    2396623

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