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Should Referees Assessments Be Made Public

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Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance .

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3405 - 06/01/2022 12:58:07    2393800

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance ."
In fairness the referees are not professional and having an official assessment which is made public would be very hard on them.
Now we can all have opinions on their performances where as if their was an official assessment the criticisms would go to a different level. Also it probably would be harder for us supporters to move on after losing a tight match where an official GAA assessment said we had the big calls go wrongly against us.
Almost all referees are honest and do their best but like players make mistakes.
In big games with big crowds it must be very hard to be a referee, with the best will in the world it would be hard not to be influenced by a big crowd.
If the GAA go down this route too much they will have less people willing to referee.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 06/01/2022 14:34:03    2393820

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance ."
Even to find out what is on the assessment criteria??

Michaelcusack2022 (Galway) - Posts: 11 - 06/01/2022 14:34:05    2393821

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Where all all these many controversies???

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 604 - 06/01/2022 18:16:27    2393853

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Where all all these many controversies???

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 604 - 06/01/2022 18:16:41    2393854

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance ."
No its not fair. Are the general public entitled to see a review of your work from your boss if you work in a pub/shop etc.
Most certainly not.
This is the same. the ref is perfectly entitled to privacy.
what does a team achieve from getting this assessment?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 06/01/2022 20:46:34    2393869

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Replying To KillingFields:  "No its not fair. Are the general public entitled to see a review of your work from your boss if you work in a pub/shop etc.
Most certainly not.
This is the same. the ref is perfectly entitled to privacy.
what does a team achieve from getting this assessment?"
Think Players/management/fans just want to see feedback from referees why they made a decision. This might lead to everyone getting a better understanding/appreciation of what referees are looking out for and will reduce the frustrations players have with referees.

Michaelcusack2022 (Galway) - Posts: 11 - 07/01/2022 13:25:14    2393939

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Replying To Michaelcusack2022:  "Think Players/management/fans just want to see feedback from referees why they made a decision. This might lead to everyone getting a better understanding/appreciation of what referees are looking out for and will reduce the frustrations players have with referees."
There is other ways to get feedback on ref decisions but this isnt it.
A lot more people could learn far more by actually reading the rule book as when you go to games its clear many have never going on what they shout at officials

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 07/01/2022 18:57:19    2394010

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I think it's an awful pity that decisions made aren't explained.there have been controversial decisions in games in past number of years and even if people understood every rule they couldn't make sense of some of them..would it not be a good idea to have the likes of Brian Gavin explain to supporters about hurling and pat mc anaeny explain football ..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1695 - 07/01/2022 20:38:23    2394023

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There is other ways to get feedback on ref decisions but this isnt it.
A lot more people could learn far more by actually reading the rule book as when you go to games its clear many have never going on what they shout at officials"
I'd like to see refs miked up like in rugby for inter county games. That way the they'd be able to explain why they make decisions like they do.

Setanta did a program a few years back showing just that. It certainly made me see how difficult the job can be but also how bad a referee can be even at the top level.

For football they followed David Coldrick who spoke to the players throughout the game and gave reasons why he awarded each decision like you see the rugby refs doing. If all games had that level of referee broadcast to the masses it would be a good thing and would encourage respect at all levels.

For hurling they followed Barry Kelly who didn't explain anything and said nothing to the players. If he was made explain his decisions to the players it would be a start. Explaining them to everyone would be better still.

A good referee needs to talk to everyone which probably wouldn't get picked up by a sideline assessment.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 189 - 07/01/2022 21:13:18    2394031

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There is other ways to get feedback on ref decisions but this isnt it.
A lot more people could learn far more by actually reading the rule book as when you go to games its clear many have never going on what they shout at officials"
You make a good point about the rule book. Even for each player to get a copy at the start of the year, if a player sees for example that if they assault a ref there is at least a 48 week ban then this could prevent players touching a ref

Michaelcusack2022 (Galway) - Posts: 11 - 07/01/2022 21:25:35    2394034

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Where all all these many controversies???"
Good point. There are very few really and most are caught pretty quickly. So no need for the entire country to be reading an assessment which will likely determine in any event whether the ref in question will get another big game soon if found to have made a major error. That ought to be "punishment" enough.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 653 - 07/01/2022 21:44:11    2394039

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance ."
No way, as you say alot of time and money is used to produce star players with alot of the top level players getting well rewarded financially for this, yet the referees are volunteers, like them or not we would not have a game without them, and alot of people who throw mud at them will never pick up a whistle and do it.
There are good and bad that is better than having none which will happen

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 255 - 08/01/2022 07:52:19    2394047

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Tomsmith here

I just wonder in the light of the many controversies in many games in the past years would it be possible for teams to get a copy of the assessment that I understand is done for all Gaa games.
As a lot of time and money is used by clubs to produce a star studded team I feel it would only be fare that Clubs and indeed the paying Public see a copy of the Referees performance ."
What is the point in anybody outside the referees association seeing the assessments of referee's performances?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1741 - 08/01/2022 10:10:45    2394058

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Where all all these many controversies???"
Off the top of my head

Mountbellew/moylough V Pearses

Loughmore/Castleiney V Ballygunnar

Eoghan McLaughlin getting his jaw broken in two places in an All Ireland Semi Final and two supposedly top referees standing within twenty yards of him

seventyniner (Galway) - Posts: 26 - 08/01/2022 13:02:59    2394083

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You can mention penalty given to tipp v Clare and black card decision..gillane v tipp in munster final..I'm not saying the refs actual rating is published but get a retired ref to go on Sunday game and explain anything that is dubious..also someone mentioned reading rule book,I'd even have doubts about all officials knowing them fully..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1695 - 08/01/2022 17:46:20    2394116

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Replying To brianb:  "I'd like to see refs miked up like in rugby for inter county games. That way the they'd be able to explain why they make decisions like they do.

Setanta did a program a few years back showing just that. It certainly made me see how difficult the job can be but also how bad a referee can be even at the top level.

For football they followed David Coldrick who spoke to the players throughout the game and gave reasons why he awarded each decision like you see the rugby refs doing. If all games had that level of referee broadcast to the masses it would be a good thing and would encourage respect at all levels.

For hurling they followed Barry Kelly who didn't explain anything and said nothing to the players. If he was made explain his decisions to the players it would be a start. Explaining them to everyone would be better still.

A good referee needs to talk to everyone which probably wouldn't get picked up by a sideline assessment."
Micing refs doesnt help overall at lower levels as it wont change perceptions of referees at club level and age grade level which must change if refs are to be treated better and refs then get better training and coaching to improve their performances on the pitch

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 09/01/2022 12:04:38    2394172

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Cockney Cat UK
Are inferring that nobody over in Ireland would be unable to read a Referee report when you state ....what use would it be in producing a referee / assessment after the game..
If you look at items outlined by seventyniner from Conty Galway.. While he has only 16 posts under this name/handle he makes alot of sense as he outlines what happened in these 3 games

Mountbellew/moylough V Pearses

Loughmore/Castleiney V Ballygunnar

Eoghan McLaughlin getting his jaw broken in two places in an All Ireland Semi Final and two supposedly top referees standing within twenty yards of him
(Louth V Meath deserves a mention )
seventyniner (Galway) - Posts: 16 -
So I feel the paying public is deserving of a look at the asesment.
I feel that any team aggrieved by the Referes decision should see the assessments.
What the big secret in relation to apoor performance by aReferee.
Having said that the vast majority of Referee do a great job
So Tomsmith says produce the assessments

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3405 - 09/01/2022 19:17:50    2394271

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Replying To tomsmith:  "Cockney Cat UK
Are inferring that nobody over in Ireland would be unable to read a Referee report when you state ....what use would it be in producing a referee / assessment after the game..
If you look at items outlined by seventyniner from Conty Galway.. While he has only 16 posts under this name/handle he makes alot of sense as he outlines what happened in these 3 games

Mountbellew/moylough V Pearses

Loughmore/Castleiney V Ballygunnar

Eoghan McLaughlin getting his jaw broken in two places in an All Ireland Semi Final and two supposedly top referees standing within twenty yards of him
(Louth V Meath deserves a mention )
seventyniner (Galway) - Posts: 16 -
So I feel the paying public is deserving of a look at the asesment.
I feel that any team aggrieved by the Referes decision should see the assessments.
What the big secret in relation to apoor performance by aReferee.
Having said that the vast majority of Referee do a great job
So Tomsmith says produce the assessments"
A team should be able to go to the referees association(which should be set up) and query incidents in games on points of law(the rule book) only.
but not see an assessment of a referee.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2699 - 09/01/2022 20:35:07    2394295

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Replying To KillingFields:  "A team should be able to go to the referees association(which should be set up) and query incidents in games on points of law(the rule book) only.
but not see an assessment of a referee."
To scrutinize one person's performance out of many on the field of play and when the game is over refer to it as a referee's assessment is all very fine but there is no assessment going to stop a punch up in a goal mouth, red card been dished out that appears to be questionable, as a result a mouth full of un pleasantries is dished out at the referee, or an umpire waving the last kick of a winning score wide, the player protests with the referee, another protests with the umpire and before you know it there is an explosive situation getting out of hand.

Those that deal with suspensions / punishments / indiscipline / controversies should be seen to be doing their job.

Simplify the rules, make them more user friendly and less of them, but more meaningful and effective.

Anything to do with match reports including the referees assessment should be confidential, however I would make a
case for some, or all of the assessment been made available to the team manager and or the team captain.

A transparent PR system would help.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2596 - 09/01/2022 21:18:18    2394309

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