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Monaghan GAA thread

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Replying To monman2011:  "It's hard to be certain if Scotstown will dominate for the next 10-15 years. Blayney's juvenile structures have been delivering results for the last number of years but it will take time to translate this into senior, the same could happen Scotstown when their golden generation start to retire (as with what happened Blayney). The Faughs are going for 3 in a row at minor (Div 1) which is almost unprecedented and have won two in a row at u15 (Div 1) but these boys will need 3-4 years to develop even if a year or two of that has to happen at Intermediate level.

In the same weekend that the Faughs were almost definitely relegated from the men's Senior, they won the u15 Div 1 double (boys), the u12 Div 1 title (girls), their senior ladies team qualified for the Junior football championship final (going for the double) and the hurling club won the u15 title.

Most clubs would be happy with this return in a year let alone one weekend. I don't think we've heard the last of Castleblayney."
A fair point well made, Blayney have a prodigious history of great success in Monaghan and will likely be back with a bang at some stage - however I feel the need to throw my two cents in with regards to all these underage successes: Winning a trophy at underage is absolutely no indicator of future success. The Harps, Blayney, Carrick and others have all won hapes of minor and underage trophy's - with nothing to show for it at senior.

This is a point that I feel needs to be hammered into every underage manager, in blayney and every other club in the country. A juvenile manager should be judged by one metric only; how many players that they have coached make it to the senior grade. Too many underage coaches concern themselves with winning a league or championship - which really means f-all to the players a year or two later. A lot of underage successes are nothing more than an ego boost for the overbearing parents that coach them. As a player myself who won plenty of underage medals - I can tell you they meant absolutely nothing to me when I turned 20 (a long time ago) and was watching scotstown, clontibret, magheracloone and latton winning championships!

The success of Scotstown can be judged by the numbers they get out for their reserve teams, which invariably helps their first team. And this success is not difficult to understand once the surface is scratched. Most if not all of their underage teams after u12 are coached by Adult players who are happy to help out. Parent's do their bit too of course but for the most part they are kept away from the positions of power within the teams - out of the road. From what I've witnessed this means football for all, with the coaches running as much of the bench as possible to keep everyone happy - and engaged all the way through the grades.

So while blayney are doing well in underage at the minute in terms of trophies, I'd be more interested in what sort of plans and structures they have in place to take these lads through to Senior. Clearly what they have been doing over the last ten years hasn't worked, and with the reserve competitions in Monaghan quickly turning into a farce, they need to have a good plan in pace!

For any juvenile manager reading this, id ask you to take a look at yourself for next year and ask 'am I coaching these kids to win now for my own ego, or am I coaching these kids to enjoy their football and helping them to stick with it'. If it is the former, then you're only fooling yourself, and doing these kids out of a future in the game.

Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 24 - 26/09/2022 14:09:27    2441929

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Replying To monman2011:  "It's hard to be certain if Scotstown will dominate for the next 10-15 years. Blayney's juvenile structures have been delivering results for the last number of years but it will take time to translate this into senior, the same could happen Scotstown when their golden generation start to retire (as with what happened Blayney). The Faughs are going for 3 in a row at minor (Div 1) which is almost unprecedented and have won two in a row at u15 (Div 1) but these boys will need 3-4 years to develop even if a year or two of that has to happen at Intermediate level.

In the same weekend that the Faughs were almost definitely relegated from the men's Senior, they won the u15 Div 1 double (boys), the u12 Div 1 title (girls), their senior ladies team qualified for the Junior football championship final (going for the double) and the hurling club won the u15 title.

Most clubs would be happy with this return in a year let alone one weekend. I don't think we've heard the last of Castleblayney."
But for such a proud club even 5 years ago people would laugh if it was even mentioned for blaney to go intermediate

prideof85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 808 - 26/09/2022 14:13:07    2441931

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Replying To countymonaghan:  "WHAT A GAME OF FOOTBALL!!
Anyone who travelled to Clontibret yesterday was spoilt with one of the best games in a long time in Monaghan. Two teams going at it. There was everything on display from hard work, hard hits, great fielding, outstanding scores and then to top it off a penalty shoot out. Not the best way to decide a game like this but added great entertainment for a neutral.

Latton pulled a massive performance out of the bag yesterday. They were brilliant. The never die attitude of Latton lives on. They missed the boat big time. I didn't think they would stick with Scotstown in ET but I was proven wrong. Few young fellas really stood up for Latton, the two Slevins (5 and 9), McCabe (7), Thomas Connolly (12), and the two Duffys. They were immense for their ages and the amount of football they have played. Few goal chances went a miss and this cost them in the end. A young fit team who will be there or there abouts next year again.

Scotstown again not seeming to be at their best. Not like them to let leads slip in the dying minutes of games. Beggan not as influential as he has been. Getting caught out of goal twice only Latton couldn't make it count. They took a lot of heavy hits yesterday so could be a few sore bodies for next weekagainst another dogged Inniskeen. Caulfield, Hughes and Mc Carthy stood up when they had to and dug them out of a hole. Again Scotstown being Scotstown they'll solider on and still a massive contender.

As for Traugh and Ballybay.. What a disappointment. Waste of money going near it. Could safely say any of the 4 teams in the relagation battle would of done better than Truagh. They had nothing to throw at Ballybay. Yes Ballybay are good and played well but they would of preferred a challenge match. I believe Truagh are flying two lads home from abroad this last number of weeks? One substituted after 30 mins. Good value that. Nice gesture this to the lads training hard all year and staying around to play. Mohan seemed more interested in fighting with Drew than playing. I know who I would pick in this battle.. The goalie scenario was a joke and if Ballybay had of been bothered they could of scored another few goals. Ballybay look sharp and should be a cracker themselves and Clontibret next week. Hopefully both teams go at it.

Credit needs to be given to Clontibret. What a setup. Perfect for double headers and these big games. I imagine you all can agree. Endless amount of volunteers around (also in Scotstown) to help with parking, shops and what not. Real buzz about the grounds. Looking forward to Clones next Sunday."
I was surprised as anyone by Lattons efforts yesterday..they were brilliant! Unfortunate for them to go out the way they did, a replay would have been a fairer outcome but nevertheless the rules are set and it is what it is. If scotstown were beat yesterday it would have blown the championship wide open, however they're still hanging in there and I cant see anyone else being able to turn them over. Clontibret were a very dramatic late goal from being knocked out of the championship and Ballybay dont seem to have the stuff to mix it with scotstown when it comes to the big day - unfortunately. Inniskeen topped what really was a weak championship group and I cant see them going much further. That result yesterday will put Truagh to bed for a long time to come and outside of that I dont see anyone else in the county having much of say for a few years to come - which is a sad sign of affairs with regards the County team!

Mickod88 (Monaghan) - Posts: 24 - 26/09/2022 14:17:38    2441932

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What was the story with the goalkeepeing in the Ballybay Truagh game, was only able to hear bits and pieces of it but heard Sean McCaffrey saying he'd never seen it happen before.

Whilst that game was poor it seems like the club games have been entertaining enough. Scotstown will be Scotstown and will be favourites but as someone from a club who isn't in the senior division it seems like it could be the most open championship in a few years?

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 723 - 26/09/2022 15:33:28    2441946

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Replying To Mickod88:  "I was surprised as anyone by Lattons efforts yesterday..they were brilliant! Unfortunate for them to go out the way they did, a replay would have been a fairer outcome but nevertheless the rules are set and it is what it is. If scotstown were beat yesterday it would have blown the championship wide open, however they're still hanging in there and I cant see anyone else being able to turn them over. Clontibret were a very dramatic late goal from being knocked out of the championship and Ballybay dont seem to have the stuff to mix it with scotstown when it comes to the big day - unfortunately. Inniskeen topped what really was a weak championship group and I cant see them going much further. That result yesterday will put Truagh to bed for a long time to come and outside of that I dont see anyone else in the county having much of say for a few years to come - which is a sad sign of affairs with regards the County team!"
Agree with some of your points but I don't think other teams are as far away as some may think.
Ballybay on their day can beat Scotstown, but in a county final this year I am not sure. Scotstown have huge underage numbers also so we must wait and see.
After this Ballybay team of present I am unsure what they have upcoming. A lot of tired legs in Ballybay but they are still performing which is nothing short of admirable.
Latton are very youthful and in my opinion will be around and competing and could shock people. They have won a few B championships recently too.
Clontibret likewise, they will remain in top flight and weather the storm of older lads retiring. They have huge underage numbers with near two teams in each age group. So they will have to see what comes of that.
Inniskeen I am unsure of what they really have to offer apart from their seniors at present. They will not fear scotstown but I don't think they have it.
Truagh will be quiet for awhile I think, yesterday summed them up. Like a big tree, All bark and no bite.
Donaghmoyne and Aughnamullen will be looking to hold senior status and get younger lads experience and see what happens, Have good potential.
Faughs to intermediate might do them no harm only ruin their reputation but things move on. A lot of strong underage teams winning so they will need to adapt to seniors and who knows where they might stand in 5 years.
Carrick never bring much to the championship in my opinion,

Honestly think in the next 2/3 years the championship could turn and it won't be as predictable. (I am hoping)

countymonaghan (Monaghan) - Posts: 215 - 26/09/2022 16:19:53    2441952

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "What was the story with the goalkeepeing in the Ballybay Truagh game, was only able to hear bits and pieces of it but heard Sean McCaffrey saying he'd never seen it happen before.

Whilst that game was poor it seems like the club games have been entertaining enough. Scotstown will be Scotstown and will be favourites but as someone from a club who isn't in the senior division it seems like it could be the most open championship in a few years?"
They brought an outfield player on for their goalkeeper for the last 10 mins. Played with a fly keeper. John McCarron seemed to be in goal more than the sub that came on for their keeper. Literally added nothing to the game. If anything, stuck another knife in the lads training all year for game time and not getting a chance.

Club championship has been entertaining right through all the divisions it seems. Few very close games and as a spectator they have been brilliant.

countymonaghan (Monaghan) - Posts: 215 - 26/09/2022 16:22:30    2441953

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Replying To Mickod88:  "A fair point well made, Blayney have a prodigious history of great success in Monaghan and will likely be back with a bang at some stage - however I feel the need to throw my two cents in with regards to all these underage successes: Winning a trophy at underage is absolutely no indicator of future success. The Harps, Blayney, Carrick and others have all won hapes of minor and underage trophy's - with nothing to show for it at senior.

This is a point that I feel needs to be hammered into every underage manager, in blayney and every other club in the country. A juvenile manager should be judged by one metric only; how many players that they have coached make it to the senior grade. Too many underage coaches concern themselves with winning a league or championship - which really means f-all to the players a year or two later. A lot of underage successes are nothing more than an ego boost for the overbearing parents that coach them. As a player myself who won plenty of underage medals - I can tell you they meant absolutely nothing to me when I turned 20 (a long time ago) and was watching scotstown, clontibret, magheracloone and latton winning championships!

The success of Scotstown can be judged by the numbers they get out for their reserve teams, which invariably helps their first team. And this success is not difficult to understand once the surface is scratched. Most if not all of their underage teams after u12 are coached by Adult players who are happy to help out. Parent's do their bit too of course but for the most part they are kept away from the positions of power within the teams - out of the road. From what I've witnessed this means football for all, with the coaches running as much of the bench as possible to keep everyone happy - and engaged all the way through the grades.

So while blayney are doing well in underage at the minute in terms of trophies, I'd be more interested in what sort of plans and structures they have in place to take these lads through to Senior. Clearly what they have been doing over the last ten years hasn't worked, and with the reserve competitions in Monaghan quickly turning into a farce, they need to have a good plan in pace!

For any juvenile manager reading this, id ask you to take a look at yourself for next year and ask 'am I coaching these kids to win now for my own ego, or am I coaching these kids to enjoy their football and helping them to stick with it'. If it is the former, then you're only fooling yourself, and doing these kids out of a future in the game."
You make a good point re transitioning to senior. If you looked at Blayney 10-15 years ago I think they'd probably fall down on the metric you mention but not now their senior team is laden with all the young talent they've developed but its going to take time for them to transition into Senior players. It just so happens that they've started to win things again at underage at the same time this is starting to happen.

No sure I'd agree that winning trophies at juvenile level with your childhood friends means nothing, many players (even those who've won at both senior and juvenile) look back on these days with great fondness and its the reason we now have so many leagues, cups, shields etc. at juvenile so that most young players get a chance to experience this feeling with their friends. Definitely the main focus of any club should be to keep as many players playing as possible and again you couldn't fault Blayney in this regard. I think they had 3 x u15 teams playing this year.

Not sure what point you are making re the reserve leagues but again if the focus is on keeping as many young players playing as possible then Blayney along with Clontibret, Scotstown, Truagh etc. tick the box here as they always field at least 2 reserve teams and are generally competitive. If the success of a club is based on the number of players who keep playing into adult football then you'd probably have to say that Truagh are the most successful club in Monaghan based on their catchment area but I doubt many people would agree with this. In reality it's a bigger achievement for the likes of Toome, Kilanny etc. to field two adult teams.

It's great for Scotstown if they have the luxury of not using parents to fulfil their coaching roles but personally I'd prefer to see multi parent involvement as you know that most parents normally have the children's best interests at their core and having multiple parent coaching keeps everyone honest re player involvement (i.e., nobody left out) and is better from a child protection perspective. Would definitely be better to see more female involvement though, although you can see a change starting here also. I definitely don't agree that parents should be 'kept out of the road' and 'positions of power' seems over the top for children's sport where participation is the key goal (power shouldn't come into it).

Fair point re Carrick and Monaghan re nothing to show at Senior for their juvenile success but hard to say this about Blayney. I think they've managed to scrap a few senior titles during the years.

Anyway, good debate and interesting insights.

monman2011 (Monaghan) - Posts: 17 - 27/09/2022 12:06:58    2442018

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Good to see double header in clones. Should be two good games.

monman246 (Monaghan) - Posts: 88 - 28/09/2022 10:40:47    2442110

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Tough to call the Senior pairings this weekend. both could end up going to extra time.
Predict that Scotstown and Ballybay will go through to the final.

Killanny and Clones to get to junior final by 6+pts in each.

Donelli (Monaghan) - Posts: 57 - 28/09/2022 12:02:37    2442119

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Replying To Donelli:  "Tough to call the Senior pairings this weekend. both could end up going to extra time.
Predict that Scotstown and Ballybay will go through to the final.

Killanny and Clones to get to junior final by 6+pts in each."
Not much being said on Junior really but looks like Killanny and Clones will go back up. Think Clones will get it right this year, lost to Killanny the first day and drew the last day out so should they meet in the final they could edge them. if they don't win a final I think Killanny winning both would put them up, should Killanny reach the championship final. Some good players in Junior that should be looked at for the county team, especially with the transition that will take place over the next 3 years. Drumhowan look to be back in the mix for semi finals. Thought Eire Og would of been more competitive also.

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 723 - 28/09/2022 14:12:24    2442140

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Very tough to call the two Senior semi finals this weekend. I think Clontibret might just shade it against Ballybay. Ballybay always seem to come up short on the big day and think Clontibret just have that bit more firepower in the middle of the field especially given the big pitch of Clones. Ballybay midfielders are carrying timber. Clontibret by 3.

I think Scotstown might just get over the line against Inniskeen. Inniskeen have had it easy up until now while Scotstown have had to batter their way through a tough group and an epic 80 minutes last weekend. I think Inniskeen will be lacking sharpness and this might hurt them. No doubt Inniskeen's discipline will hurt them again when they fall behind. Scotstown by 2.

Hard to see anything but a Clones Killanny junior final. Eire Og have been disappointing and Drumhowen are probably just a couple of players short at the minute.

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 136 - 28/09/2022 21:25:54    2442189

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "Not much being said on Junior really but looks like Killanny and Clones will go back up. Think Clones will get it right this year, lost to Killanny the first day and drew the last day out so should they meet in the final they could edge them. if they don't win a final I think Killanny winning both would put them up, should Killanny reach the championship final. Some good players in Junior that should be looked at for the county team, especially with the transition that will take place over the next 3 years. Drumhowan look to be back in the mix for semi finals. Thought Eire Og would of been more competitive also."
Drumhowan finished second in league so think they would be promoted if Killany were to win a double

sporto (Monaghan) - Posts: 146 - 29/09/2022 21:44:53    2442282

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Replying To sporto:  "Drumhowan finished second in league so think they would be promoted if Killany were to win a double"
Would bring in the league and championship final not trump that?

monman246 (Monaghan) - Posts: 88 - 30/09/2022 09:47:36    2442290

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Replying To sporto:  "Drumhowan finished second in league so think they would be promoted if Killany were to win a double"
I could be wrong but I think that was under the old format and that under the new championship/league format it is the championship runners up who go up if someone wins the double but not 100% sure on that. I suppose it would make sense since teams are now missing county players for long periods of the league.

monman91 (Monaghan) - Posts: 29 - 30/09/2022 10:18:40    2442295

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Replying To sporto:  "Drumhowan finished second in league so think they would be promoted if Killany were to win a double"
If a team does the double the championship final runner up is promoted.

MonaghanGa3l (USA) - Posts: 15 - 30/09/2022 10:20:23    2442296

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Replying To MonaghanGa3l:  "If a team does the double the championship final runner up is promoted."
True that's why Aughnamullen are Senior this year so presume nothing has changed.

Monaghansclown (Monaghan) - Posts: 136 - 30/09/2022 10:48:34    2442298

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So the 2 best teams in Junior are through to both finals and are promoted...these should be 2 great open games now that the pressure is off and will be interesting to see who goes on to win each.

On the senior front it's very tricky to call, but surely Scotstown will lift it today to make the final as I can't see inniskeen having enough firepower to hurt them.

MonaghanGa3l (USA) - Posts: 15 - 02/10/2022 09:41:38    2442473

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Replying To MonaghanGa3l:  "So the 2 best teams in Junior are through to both finals and are promoted...these should be 2 great open games now that the pressure is off and will be interesting to see who goes on to win each.

On the senior front it's very tricky to call, but surely Scotstown will lift it today to make the final as I can't see inniskeen having enough firepower to hurt them."
Yeah that's Killany and Clones back up. Best two teams in junior this year by a mile so both deserve to go up. Can see Clones staying in Intermediate too, but in general will be a regular in that division in years to come. Hopefully the county management will give some players a go in the Dr Mckenna Cup etc as there's good players in Junior.

Scotstown got the job done anyway, Rory Beggan seems to be having a fine year. D. Hughes is contributing well too. I don't think they'll care about previous performances as much now as they're in the final. They know how to get it done on the big day. Ballybay I think will be great opposition and should be a good final. Will Ballybay lift the Mick Duffy again 10 years on from when they last won it?

MonaghanGlory (Monaghan) - Posts: 723 - 02/10/2022 19:26:42    2442545

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Replying To MonaghanGlory:  "Yeah that's Killany and Clones back up. Best two teams in junior this year by a mile so both deserve to go up. Can see Clones staying in Intermediate too, but in general will be a regular in that division in years to come. Hopefully the county management will give some players a go in the Dr Mckenna Cup etc as there's good players in Junior.

Scotstown got the job done anyway, Rory Beggan seems to be having a fine year. D. Hughes is contributing well too. I don't think they'll care about previous performances as much now as they're in the final. They know how to get it done on the big day. Ballybay I think will be great opposition and should be a good final. Will Ballybay lift the Mick Duffy again 10 years on from when they last won it?"
The very least you would expect is that Clones should be operating in intermediate on a yearly basis, absolutely shameful and embarrassing that they've been in junior for the last 7/8 years or whatever it is bottle merchants when it came to crunch time in that period… the fact that junior has been desperately poor this year has also helped both killanny and clones to canter out of it without breaking sweat..clones to win the champ and killanny to take the league..

The senior final should be a cracker hopefully Ballybay get the job done for the sake of Monaghan football plus I'd love to see jap get his 2nd senior final..

mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 374 - 02/10/2022 20:58:16    2442562

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I cannot but admire the resistance of ballybay, they always come back again and again with basically the same group of players, fantastic culture and it should be a good game, although Scotstown have eased passed them in the last two finals. Inniskeen disappointing, Oisín off to wicklow,heard he had the club broke.

222 (UK) - Posts: 612 - 02/10/2022 21:28:30    2442566

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