National Forum

2021 Hurling Championship

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Umpires? What training and qualifications have they got?
In fact, can someone tell me how umpires are chosen for big matches?"
Cockney Cat. Long ago I had my hand broken two occasions playing hurling and got various facial injuries. I, or indeed several other players I saw getting similar injuries, never rolled around the ground, as if I had just been maimed for life, like players are doing now, when they are clearly able to get up and play on without the slightest problem once the referee has acted. There should be a yellow card for this nonsense and it does absolutely no credit to the lads that do it. I have no doubt that the over the top antics of the 'victim' last Sunday actually kept A Gullane on the field when he should have gone.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3243 - 21/07/2021 09:37:39    2362403

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Replying To endgame:  "Cork hurling is coming big time. Won't be this year but it's not far off."
And why not. They have always a huge pick, massive financial resources, a great supply of talent and a big tradition of winning. Of course they will be back. That is a given.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3243 - 21/07/2021 09:39:51    2362404

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Replying To Bon:  "Agreed, I'd also like to see the linesman and umpires play are role in this too.
Black card for diving or feigning injury."
Yes, for all the stick James Owens got, why isn't the linesman helping him more?
The hilarity of it all is that an umpire cannot call a square ball, but a referee 60 yards away can call it.
For me, the umpires should be other referees in the county of the referee and can call penalties, frees, etc exactly like the referee can.
So if James Owens brought 4 top referees in Wexford with him as umpires, the entire officiating team (including linesmen) are judged on their performances. Not just James Owens.
We cannot continue to scapegoat referees and do nothing to help him out.
Does anybody know how much a referee gets for refereeing an inter county match?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1348 - 21/07/2021 10:20:59    2362420

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "Canuck a lot of what you said is very true..I was giving Flanagan the benefit of the doubt but when I looked back again it was a dangerous and very careless challange which could very easily have been red..think everyone agrees gillane should have gone,no matter how people saw it,he struck with the Hurley that's a red...I said in another post the antics of Barrett were awful,he rolled around ground roaring..if I'm right he got up and competed for throw in..he also managed to finish the game ..in 2019 the same man under a Richie Hogan challange went down as if shot by a sniper,again he managed to finish the game..I have mentioned previously that players roaring and rolling around the ground is now a feature in all games and it needs to be wiped out.."
Tipp seem to be the worst offenders of playing for a foul. Any tap and they are rolling around on the field. I don't know if they are told to do i tbut, watching the U-20 last night they are at it also. If a player needs medical attention on the field for more than a few seconds he shoul have to go off for a 10 minute proper evaluation.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 297 - 21/07/2021 11:30:43    2362440

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Yes, for all the stick James Owens got, why isn't the linesman helping him more?
The hilarity of it all is that an umpire cannot call a square ball, but a referee 60 yards away can call it.
For me, the umpires should be other referees in the county of the referee and can call penalties, frees, etc exactly like the referee can.
So if James Owens brought 4 top referees in Wexford with him as umpires, the entire officiating team (including linesmen) are judged on their performances. Not just James Owens.
We cannot continue to scapegoat referees and do nothing to help him out.
Does anybody know how much a referee gets for refereeing an inter county match?"
I couldn't agree more. The umpires should be refs, I've been saying that for years. If they had the power to call frees/penalties/cards etc it would take huge pressure off the actual match ref. The game is so fast with so much happening on and off the ball he'd need eyes in the back of his head.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1351 - 21/07/2021 13:13:22    2362487

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "And why not. They have always a huge pick, massive financial resources, a great supply of talent and a big tradition of winning. Of course they will be back. That is a given."
I think the only surprising thing is that it's taking so long.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 892 - 21/07/2021 13:50:35    2362504

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Cockney Cat. Long ago I had my hand broken two occasions playing hurling and got various facial injuries. I, or indeed several other players I saw getting similar injuries, never rolled around the ground, as if I had just been maimed for life, like players are doing now, when they are clearly able to get up and play on without the slightest problem once the referee has acted. There should be a yellow card for this nonsense and it does absolutely no credit to the lads that do it. I have no doubt that the over the top antics of the 'victim' last Sunday actually kept A Gullane on the field when he should have gone."
Oldtourman. Interesting as this may be, why are you telling me? It has nothing to do with my comment.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1452 - 21/07/2021 14:30:01    2362521

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Replying To gatha:  "Tipp seem to be the worst offenders of playing for a foul. Any tap and they are rolling around on the field. I don't know if they are told to do i tbut, watching the U-20 last night they are at it also. If a player needs medical attention on the field for more than a few seconds he shoul have to go off for a 10 minute proper evaluation."
The last part of that is rubbish to be honest. You can have your opinion on Tipp but go off for a 10 min evaluation if you need attention? Are you serious?!!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3104 - 21/07/2021 15:30:53    2362556

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Why is everyone still talking about the "antics"? Antics or no antics those incidents would hurt any man. I havent heard one Tipp man say the incidencts cost us the game but also I havent heard one Limerick man say Gillane and Flanagans antics are getting worrying. They both have been involved in multiple sending off incidents over the last couple of years. Is that not a worry? If you're going to keep dragging up these incidents then discuss them as a whole and not concentrate on the opposition.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3104 - 21/07/2021 15:35:33    2362559

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Umpires? What training and qualifications have they got?
In fact, can someone tell me how umpires are chosen for big matches?"
Have you ever officiated as an umpire ? Before asking about training as an umpire, try it out, especially an evening game and go for the side that is against the sun, that will test you !
Umpires are picked by the referee himself. They are the fellas that are themselves available and go to the games with the referee. They may be related, from the same ckub but usually loke doing it.
I have done umpire a few times and it's no easy job, but I know fellas that do it for a few referees as they like it and they are very good at it too!
Having a referee do umpire sounds good but he might be totally useless and a liability
Referees and officials discuss how the match went and that is basically their training as referees will demand that correct calls based on good positioning are the norm.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1630 - 21/07/2021 15:57:21    2362564

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Why is everyone still talking about the "antics"? Antics or no antics those incidents would hurt any man. I havent heard one Tipp man say the incidencts cost us the game but also I havent heard one Limerick man say Gillane and Flanagans antics are getting worrying. They both have been involved in multiple sending off incidents over the last couple of years. Is that not a worry? If you're going to keep dragging up these incidents then discuss them as a whole and not concentrate on the opposition."
Not sure where hurling is going in relation to refereeing..

In all there could have been at least three red cards in the Munster final, the lad who hit Lynch in the throat neck area, the more public flanagan and Gillane incidents were all reds IF the rules were applied but referee's aren't doing that and whilst we all want a manly game, cheap slaps nowhere near the ball is far from manly or brave and need punished.

Also,
What is it with Kilkenny defenders driving their heads into oncoming opponents, Young Carey got away with one on Saturday against Dublin and might have picked up a yellow and was dismissed sort of by Cummins in commentary that he'd got his tackling technique all wrong..Say what?
This was preceded by the Kilkenny fullback in the 2020 Minor final a week before doing something similar to the Galway forward and the referee gives a hop ball FFS....

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2500 - 21/07/2021 16:57:15    2362577

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Replying To tiobraid:  "The last part of that is rubbish to be honest. You can have your opinion on Tipp but go off for a 10 min evaluation if you need attention? Are you serious?!!"
Deadly serious. If a doctor comes out has to look at you for 2 or 3 minutes becuse you got hit in the head a proper evaluation should be done to be sure you do not have a concussion. I believe in the Dublin Kilkenny game a Dublin player got hit the doctor came out and determined the player had to go off. The player wanted to stay but the doctor did his job and wouldn't let him. If the player is acting he won't risk going off for 10 minutes and the acting will stop. If he did get a serious knock to his head he should be properly taken care of.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 297 - 21/07/2021 17:04:26    2362580

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Why is everyone still talking about the "antics"? Antics or no antics those incidents would hurt any man. I havent heard one Tipp man say the incidencts cost us the game but also I havent heard one Limerick man say Gillane and Flanagans antics are getting worrying. They both have been involved in multiple sending off incidents over the last couple of years. Is that not a worry? If you're going to keep dragging up these incidents then discuss them as a whole and not concentrate on the opposition."
Barret is a repeat offender too when it comes to antics.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1351 - 21/07/2021 17:42:31    2362595

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Replying To bricktop:  "Not sure where hurling is going in relation to refereeing..

In all there could have been at least three red cards in the Munster final, the lad who hit Lynch in the throat neck area, the more public flanagan and Gillane incidents were all reds IF the rules were applied but referee's aren't doing that and whilst we all want a manly game, cheap slaps nowhere near the ball is far from manly or brave and need punished.

Also,
What is it with Kilkenny defenders driving their heads into oncoming opponents, Young Carey got away with one on Saturday against Dublin and might have picked up a yellow and was dismissed sort of by Cummins in commentary that he'd got his tackling technique all wrong..Say what?
This was preceded by the Kilkenny fullback in the 2020 Minor final a week before doing something similar to the Galway forward and the referee gives a hop ball FFS...."
I do prefer a laissez faire style of referee who's reluctant to send anyone off. In saying that there has to be a red card option available as a deterrent of some sort. I think if a player is red carded, he should be replaced by a sub after a ten minute period of playing with 14.
The Kilkenny torpedo headbutt, /tackle is bizarre and I'd to do a double take. It's like someone in a club game in Kilkenny has done it and it's just taken off. It needs a quiet word to Cody's team prior to a game . Just say..'I'm gonna watch out for those weird torpedo helmet to helmet tackles' thank you for your time. Less reds the better. It ruins a game of ball.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1540 - 21/07/2021 17:56:28    2362600

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Replying To tiobraid:  "The last part of that is rubbish to be honest. You can have your opinion on Tipp but go off for a 10 min evaluation if you need attention? Are you serious?!!"
Think about it this way, if someone was to strike you on the street so hard, that it took you a couple of minutes to even get to your feet, do you think you'd then have it in you to immediately participate in a munster championship match right after getting up?
No chance, it'd be about 25 minutes before you're good to go, and that's just to walk home, forget about playing a match.
The evaluation idea would deter cheating, and would placate the h&s gurus who are pretty much omnipotent these days.
These fakers are a disgrace to our game and should be called out, whether they're of your county or not.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 885 - 21/07/2021 18:18:38    2362607

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Replying To gatha:  "Deadly serious. If a doctor comes out has to look at you for 2 or 3 minutes becuse you got hit in the head a proper evaluation should be done to be sure you do not have a concussion. I believe in the Dublin Kilkenny game a Dublin player got hit the doctor came out and determined the player had to go off. The player wanted to stay but the doctor did his job and wouldn't let him. If the player is acting he won't risk going off for 10 minutes and the acting will stop. If he did get a serious knock to his head he should be properly taken care of."
I certainly would do something. If the player can not continue to play after the foul he should have to go to the side line for further attention. He returns to the field at the next break in play or I would not be again a four or five minute delay. Like you said to stop this faking and if genuinely injured to make sure he has been properly assessed for his own health protection.
Everyone can see this simulation if honest. It started about 5 or 6 years ago and now has escalated to greater degree. The majority of players are not in to this sh-t. The ones are seem to be repeated offenders.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1638 - 21/07/2021 18:35:22    2362613

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Replying To gatha:  "Tipp seem to be the worst offenders of playing for a foul. Any tap and they are rolling around on the field. I don't know if they are told to do i tbut, watching the U-20 last night they are at it also. If a player needs medical attention on the field for more than a few seconds he shoul have to go off for a 10 minute proper evaluation."
Ahem! Colin Fennelly,Richie Power,Eoin Larkin, Richie Leahy, John Donnelly and even Tj wouldnt be slouches in drawing the refs attention if they thought they were being fouled.Plenty of them in Galway too in case you might think I'm blinkered

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 96 - 21/07/2021 18:54:36    2362619

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Replying To gatha:  "Tipp seem to be the worst offenders of playing for a foul. Any tap and they are rolling around on the field. I don't know if they are told to do i tbut, watching the U-20 last night they are at it also. If a player needs medical attention on the field for more than a few seconds he shoul have to go off for a 10 minute proper evaluation."
If Tipp are the worst offenders at "playing for a foul" they're obviously not very good at it. The following are the totals scored from frees or penalties in the last two championship games played by each of these counties:
Tipp 1-6; Limerick 0-14; Clare 0-15; Kilkenny 1-20; Wexford 1-21. Even allowing for the 20 minutes extra played by Kilkenny and Wexford, these figures would suggest that Tipp aren't at all good at winning frees, especially when you consider that Jason Forde has missed almost nothing from anything inside 80 metres. Regarding the Under 20 game last night, I can recall only two Tipp players staying down for any longer than a few seconds. The midfielder Campion was injured just before half time and had to be replaced permanently, while the centre back Maher sustained a head injury late in the game and a blood substitution was required. Your claim that Tipp are the worst offenders at playing for frees simply doesn't stand up. Let's be honest, every county has players that play for frees, and some are obviously more successful than others.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 309 - 21/07/2021 19:31:33    2362628

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Replying To bricktop:  "Not sure where hurling is going in relation to refereeing..

In all there could have been at least three red cards in the Munster final, the lad who hit Lynch in the throat neck area, the more public flanagan and Gillane incidents were all reds IF the rules were applied but referee's aren't doing that and whilst we all want a manly game, cheap slaps nowhere near the ball is far from manly or brave and need punished.

Also,
What is it with Kilkenny defenders driving their heads into oncoming opponents, Young Carey got away with one on Saturday against Dublin and might have picked up a yellow and was dismissed sort of by Cummins in commentary that he'd got his tackling technique all wrong..Say what?
This was preceded by the Kilkenny fullback in the 2020 Minor final a week before doing something similar to the Galway forward and the referee gives a hop ball FFS...."
"Also, What is it with Kilkenny defenders driving their heads into oncoming opponents, Young Carey got away with one on Saturday against Dublin and might have picked up a yellow"

Kilkenny defenders? What other incidents were there besides Careys? By the way, Carey did not get with it, he got a yellow card.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1452 - 21/07/2021 19:34:04    2362630

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I do prefer a laissez faire style of referee who's reluctant to send anyone off. In saying that there has to be a red card option available as a deterrent of some sort. I think if a player is red carded, he should be replaced by a sub after a ten minute period of playing with 14.
The Kilkenny torpedo headbutt, /tackle is bizarre and I'd to do a double take. It's like someone in a club game in Kilkenny has done it and it's just taken off. It needs a quiet word to Cody's team prior to a game . Just say..'I'm gonna watch out for those weird torpedo helmet to helmet tackles' thank you for your time. Less reds the better. It ruins a game of ball."
Besides Carey last Saturday. Tell me of all the other incidents of this "The Kilkenny torpedo headbutt, /tackle"?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1452 - 21/07/2021 19:36:53    2362631

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