National Forum

2021 National Hurling League

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Maroonatic:  "It certainly would have been worth debating at the time. Didn't Liam Griffin support the combining of clubs at Marys at underage level? There's an example of how it benefited the game in one particular region. Now look at all the happy young hurlers around Rosslare. Expand that up to intercounty level. Parochialism, again in my opinion, doesn't benefit the game as much as would combining resources. Broaden the horizons. Look beyond our own wee patch. The game of hurling should be promoted not clung to jealously by successful counties only."
Agree 100% it should be promoted. And promoted properly by investment in more fulltime coaches and gpos in those counties paid for in part or full by the GAA as a whole. Club amalgamations took place down here when small rural parishes just couldnt get 15 lads to tog out for whichever team minor or senior. There are no counties in Ireland that cant put out 23 or 26 lads in hurling or football so the comparison is not valid to the Rosslare situation.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3086 - 25/05/2021 14:31:18    2345385

Link

Replying To Maroonatic:  "It certainly would have been worth debating at the time. Didn't Liam Griffin support the combining of clubs at Marys at underage level? There's an example of how it benefited the game in one particular region. Now look at all the happy young hurlers around Rosslare. Expand that up to intercounty level. Parochialism, again in my opinion, doesn't benefit the game as much as would combining resources. Broaden the horizons. Look beyond our own wee patch. The game of hurling should be promoted not clung to jealously by successful counties only."
Absolutely dead right.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3245 - 25/05/2021 14:51:53    2345386

Link

Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Thanks, forgot about that team. They were the basis of the winning Offaly teams in 1971/1972. How are things in the Lake County?"
Unfortunately, Westmeath didn't reap any similar benefits from their Minor All-Ireland win in 1965, although many of the Under 21s of 1999 developed into very good senior players and played key roles in the Leinster success of 2004. We have produced some very good players since, but not enough at the same time. Two narrow recent league defeats to Meath and Mayo could mean a relegation dogfight but we live in hope. Meanwhile, the hurlers are finding the going tough in Division 1 but they are a dedicated bunch and will keep battling. Offaly seem to be improving at both codes and hopefully will regain their place at the top levels in the not-too-distant future.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 309 - 25/05/2021 16:10:31    2345413

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1456 - 25/05/2021 20:12:32    2345486

Link

Getting back to the topic at hand - 2021 National Hurling League

Kilkenny v Wexford has been rearranged for next Sunday 3pm, "subject to the Wexford players currently isolating being deemed safe to play by the HSE later in the week (Thursday)".

I was disappointed when it was called of last week. So, fingers crossed, we'll have a decent game of hurling to look forward to in what is a weekend dominated by football.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1456 - 25/05/2021 20:25:10    2345489

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Getting back to the topic at hand - 2021 National Hurling League

Kilkenny v Wexford has been rearranged for next Sunday 3pm, "subject to the Wexford players currently isolating being deemed safe to play by the HSE later in the week (Thursday)".

I was disappointed when it was called of last week. So, fingers crossed, we'll have a decent game of hurling to look forward to in what is a weekend dominated by football."
Hope so. Our preparations or lack thereof might stand against us though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3086 - 25/05/2021 20:43:56    2345496

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties.

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 266 - 25/05/2021 22:29:01    2345529

Link

Replying To johnocarroll17:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3245 - 26/05/2021 09:54:27    2345571

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever.

johnocarroll17 (Limerick) - Posts: 266 - 26/05/2021 13:18:52    2345647

Link

Replying To johnocarroll17:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever."]Well I think even today it is hard to argue that Ring was not the greatest. Although, Smyth gave plenty leeway to old Kilkenny players to nominate Mackey as the greatest hurler ever in his book and quoted the old Tubberadora Captain, Mickie Maher, who prior to his death in 1947 said 'Mick Mackey was the greatest hurler of them and I have seen them all'. So I think he was fair enough to Mackey. Remember there were only ever two mentioned as the greatest ever, before 2000. I actually I think to this day that still stands.
Having said that, I am another huge fan of Mackey and have studied his career at length. One day, while walking past the pictures of the individual members of the Millennium teams in Croke Park, I saw that Mick's citation said he captained Limerick to All Ireland Victory in the Jubilee Year of 1934. I was enraged that such an iconic man could be treated so sloppily. Mick Mackey did not captain the '34 team- it was in fact Timmy Ryan. He did however captain the all conquering '36 and '40 teams. The following day, I contacted my old friend, the Chairman of the Munster Council, (OTM is an outrageous name dropper) and vented my annoyance. Croke Park was contacted and the citation was suitably corrected.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3245 - 26/05/2021 16:54:38    2345721

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever."]Well I think even today it is hard to argue that Ring was not the greatest. Although, Smyth gave plenty leeway to old Kilkenny players to nominate Mackey as the greatest hurler ever in his book and quoted the old Tubberadora Captain, Mickie Maher, who prior to his death in 1947 said 'Mick Mackey was the greatest hurler of them and I have seen them all'. So I think he was fair enough to Mackey. Remember there were only ever two mentioned as the greatest ever, before 2000. I actually I think to this day that still stands.
Having said that, I am another huge fan of Mackey and have studied his career at length. One day, while walking past the pictures of the individual members of the Millennium teams in Croke Park, I saw that Mick's citation said he captained Limerick to All Ireland Victory in the Jubilee Year of 1934. I was enraged that such an iconic man could be treated so sloppily. Mick Mackey did not captain the '34 team- it was in fact Timmy Ryan. He did however captain the all conquering '36 and '40 teams. The following day, I contacted my old friend, the Chairman of the Munster Council, (OTM is an outrageous name dropper) and vented my annoyance. Croke Park was contacted and the citation was suitably corrected."]OTM and Johnocarroll, some mighty info there, have enjoyed acquiring it.

What I didn't enjoy, and perhaps it a website issue, is that it's all one huge chunk of writing, with almost no knowing where a post ends and reply begins.

Only that I'm so hugely interested in Limk hurling, I wouldn't have tried to decipher the chunk of script at all.

But thanks to the both of you!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 661 - 26/05/2021 17:45:28    2345733

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever."]Well I think even today it is hard to argue that Ring was not the greatest. Although, Smyth gave plenty leeway to old Kilkenny players to nominate Mackey as the greatest hurler ever in his book and quoted the old Tubberadora Captain, Mickie Maher, who prior to his death in 1947 said 'Mick Mackey was the greatest hurler of them and I have seen them all'. So I think he was fair enough to Mackey. Remember there were only ever two mentioned as the greatest ever, before 2000. I actually I think to this day that still stands.
Having said that, I am another huge fan of Mackey and have studied his career at length. One day, while walking past the pictures of the individual members of the Millennium teams in Croke Park, I saw that Mick's citation said he captained Limerick to All Ireland Victory in the Jubilee Year of 1934. I was enraged that such an iconic man could be treated so sloppily. Mick Mackey did not captain the '34 team- it was in fact Timmy Ryan. He did however captain the all conquering '36 and '40 teams. The following day, I contacted my old friend, the Chairman of the Munster Council, (OTM is an outrageous name dropper) and vented my annoyance. Croke Park was contacted and the citation was suitably corrected."]Oldtourman the great Mick Mackey stated that John Keane was the greatest player bare non to ever play the game. Keane took ill on his way to visit his great friend and did not make it. John had gone and visited Ring and the other greats and his last stop he wanted to remember was Mick. He never told any of them he was dying but they sensed the reason for the visits. He was 58. Mick gave the speech at the funeral and was visible very upset. John was know to have said if he wasn't a Waterford man the only place he would ever want to live was in Limerick.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1639 - 26/05/2021 19:25:28    2345747

Link

Replying To Canuck:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever."]Well I think even today it is hard to argue that Ring was not the greatest. Although, Smyth gave plenty leeway to old Kilkenny players to nominate Mackey as the greatest hurler ever in his book and quoted the old Tubberadora Captain, Mickie Maher, who prior to his death in 1947 said 'Mick Mackey was the greatest hurler of them and I have seen them all'. So I think he was fair enough to Mackey. Remember there were only ever two mentioned as the greatest ever, before 2000. I actually I think to this day that still stands.
Having said that, I am another huge fan of Mackey and have studied his career at length. One day, while walking past the pictures of the individual members of the Millennium teams in Croke Park, I saw that Mick's citation said he captained Limerick to All Ireland Victory in the Jubilee Year of 1934. I was enraged that such an iconic man could be treated so sloppily. Mick Mackey did not captain the '34 team- it was in fact Timmy Ryan. He did however captain the all conquering '36 and '40 teams. The following day, I contacted my old friend, the Chairman of the Munster Council, (OTM is an outrageous name dropper) and vented my annoyance. Croke Park was contacted and the citation was suitably corrected."]Oldtourman the great Mick Mackey stated that John Keane was the greatest player bare non to ever play the game. Keane took ill on his way to visit his great friend and did not make it. John had gone and visited Ring and the other greats and his last stop he wanted to remember was Mick. He never told any of them he was dying but they sensed the reason for the visits. He was 58. Mick gave the speech at the funeral and was visible very upset. John was know to have said if he wasn't a Waterford man the only place he would ever want to live was in Limerick."]Yes indeed. If you were to listen to some people and often those who should know better, that the only decent rivalry in Munster is that which exists between Cork and Tipp and as your comments show there is muck more to Munster Hurling lore than that.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 3245 - 26/05/2021 19:38:51    2345751

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "
Replying To Canuck:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=johnocarroll17:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "[quote=Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  "You're right, but it's a bit more complex. The following is from Wikipedia:

The county was divided once again in 1838.The county town of Clonmel, where the grand jury held its twice-yearly assizes, is at the southern limit of the county, and roads leading north were poor, making the journey inconvenient for jurors resident there. A petition to move the county town to a more central location was opposed by the MP for Clonmel, so instead the county was split into two "ridings"; the grand jury of the South Riding continued to meet in Clonmel, while that of the North Riding met in Nenagh. When the Local Government (Ireland) Act 1898 established county councils to replace the grand jury for civil functions, the ridings became separate "administrative counties" with separate county councils. Their names were changed from "Tipperary North/South Riding" to "North/South Tipperary" by the Local Government Act 2001"
Well no less an authority than Raymond Smyth , himself a Thurles man, has enunciated the story of Dr Crokes Plea in one of his earlier books."
Never heard of him. I am stating facts."]Never had much time for Raymond Smith. One who only regarded the Big Three in hurling and had little time for weaker counties."]John- I very respectfully disagree- no commentator ever lavished more praise on the Limerick team of the thirties and forties, among other sides. You may be mixing him up with Kevin Cashman or indeed quite a few others.. I read Tommy Doyles 'My Lifetime in Hurling' co edited by Smyth and his first Book which I think was 'Decades of Glory'. This was all well over fifty years ago. Teams like Limerick, Waterford Wexford all got very fair treatment- you might dig them out and you might re assess your view of him in MHO. Anyway this this is not the issue here. The fact is Dr Patrick Duggan, the Bishop of Clonfert, was first approached to be Patron of the GAA. He was a lifelong and committed Nationalist and had big support within the infant organisation. However, he said was too old for the challenges involved and recommended the younger Archbishop Thomas Croke of Cashel and Emly for the job. Croke accepted and he made a special plea for Tipp to be united. If there was not an issue why was this done. Now Croke was not a Tipp man. He was born in Kilbrin Co Croke. His mothher was born a Protestant and was one of a Landlord family, the Plummers of Mountplummer, in Broadford Co Limerick. In turn her mother was a daughter of the the Knight of Glin. In his iconic thome on the long history of the Fitzgerald Family, Desmond Fitzgerald, the Last Knight of Glin, notes that Thomas Croke was easily the most important scion by far of that famous West Limerick aristocratic family."]Fantastic post. However, returning to Raymond Smith for a moment - he was the journo who famously declared before the 1989 All-Ireland semifinals that the Galway/Tipperary winners would beat Offaly in the final. He didn't even mention Antrim. And we all know what happened next. Smith also lambasted Clare after the 1993 Munster final and clamoured for a seeded draw in the Munster championship - conveniently forgetting that Clare had beaten BOTH Limerick and Cork to get to that final. He also didn't tolerate anyone who disagreed that Christy Ring was the greatest ever."]Well I think even today it is hard to argue that Ring was not the greatest. Although, Smyth gave plenty leeway to old Kilkenny players to nominate Mackey as the greatest hurler ever in his book and quoted the old Tubberadora Captain, Mickie Maher, who prior to his death in 1947 said 'Mick Mackey was the greatest hurler of them and I have seen them all'. So I think he was fair enough to Mackey. Remember there were only ever two mentioned as the greatest ever, before 2000. I actually I think to this day that still stands.
Having said that, I am another huge fan of Mackey and have studied his career at length. One day, while walking past the pictures of the individual members of the Millennium teams in Croke Park, I saw that Mick's citation said he captained Limerick to All Ireland Victory in the Jubilee Year of 1934. I was enraged that such an iconic man could be treated so sloppily. Mick Mackey did not captain the '34 team- it was in fact Timmy Ryan. He did however captain the all conquering '36 and '40 teams. The following day, I contacted my old friend, the Chairman of the Munster Council, (OTM is an outrageous name dropper) and vented my annoyance. Croke Park was contacted and the citation was suitably corrected."]Oldtourman the great Mick Mackey stated that John Keane was the greatest player bare non to ever play the game. Keane took ill on his way to visit his great friend and did not make it. John had gone and visited Ring and the other greats and his last stop he wanted to remember was Mick. He never told any of them he was dying but they sensed the reason for the visits. He was 58. Mick gave the speech at the funeral and was visible very upset. John was know to have said if he wasn't a Waterford man the only place he would ever want to live was in Limerick."]Yes indeed. If you were to listen to some people and often those who should know better, that the only decent rivalry in Munster is that which exists between Cork and Tipp and as your comments show there is muck more to Munster Hurling lore than that."]Great post and great piece of history. Thanks for sharing Oldtourman.

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1295 - 26/05/2021 22:05:34    2345773

Link

Wexford Kilkenny this weekend, I think Kilkenny will shade it as Wexford haven't had much training since the Clare game.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1359 - 28/05/2021 12:02:37    2346054

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "Wexford Kilkenny this weekend, I think Kilkenny will shade it as Wexford haven't had much training since the Clare game."
Possible Kilkenny havent had much training done this week either with the covid case. And with the possibility of a Leinster semi final meeting ahead will both counties play full first teams in the league fixture or use it to blood new lads? Although it would be great to keep our unbeaten run against the cats going for another season!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3086 - 28/05/2021 16:38:24    2346103

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Possible Kilkenny havent had much training done this week either with the covid case. And with the possibility of a Leinster semi final meeting ahead will both counties play full first teams in the league fixture or use it to blood new lads? Although it would be great to keep our unbeaten run against the cats going for another season!"
Four hours to go to the throw in and still no news of the teams.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1456 - 30/05/2021 10:44:46    2346460

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Four hours to go to the throw in and still no news of the teams."
Wexford making a lot of changes to their team, whereas Kilkenny have picked a strong team. Kilkenny to win by 8 points.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1456 - 30/05/2021 13:18:54    2346487

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Wexford making a lot of changes to their team, whereas Kilkenny have picked a strong team. Kilkenny to win by 8 points."
For sure there were lads starting today who wont be on the bench even come championship but it was great to see them get a run out. They ll only be better for playing a pretty strong Cats team. We were a long way off the pace in the 1st half looked like some of the lads barely knew eachother after all the missed training. Passing and even getting the ball up seemed a problem. And the lads looked tired too less blocking and hooking and running off the shoulder and Kilkenny men in acres of space especially in the 1st half. Good to see some of the championship starters get their first minutes on the pitch this year towards the end. And good to see a big improvement in freetaking. Dunne desperately unlucky after playing well this year so far. Hope it's not too bad an injury. Overall happy enough which is surprising after losing by a double digit score!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 3086 - 30/05/2021 17:15:58    2346589

Link

Replying To StoreysTash:  "Lets be real re Laois, they haven't had a good minor team since about 2013 when they shocked a Wexford team which I think had Liam Ryan and Conor McDonald and others fresh off beating Kilkenny if I am remembering the game correctly.
People can talk about Laois, Offaly, Westmeath etc at senior level till the cows come home, the first barometer of hurling ability is up to minor age. Yes there is always going to be off-days, etc at these grades due to the age of the players involved, but victories need to be more consistent rather than flashes in the pan.
For me, where these counties need to really try start at is Feile, Tony Forristal, etc and then try keep a group together and working at the same level as the other counties till minor. Then, at the very least respectable performances against the pace setters have to be the barometer.
Spending a fortune on DJ Carey or Shefflin or whoever mentioned above, is a total waste of money. Spend a fortune on some of these to manage underage coaching in the county, train coaches to the level of Kilkenny, get top coaches in who hurled at the top level.
Wexford had some Paddy Butler fellow and George O'Connor heading up underage coaching when I was underage and they were class, to me this is the sort of thing Laois need to do.
I'm not saying Wexford are a barometer but when they came in, we were at rock bottom ourselves."
I do agree with most of what you were saying about laois needing to get the structures right at under age level. All I am saying is that there was a huge improvement under Eddie Brennan beating Dublin in the championship and getting to a quater final against tipperary who went on to beat wexford with 14 men and absolutely destroy kilkenny in the final. Laois were very competitive against Tipp despite hurling the second half with 14 men and they were applauded off the field in Croke Park. The next year they only lost by a point to Clare in the qualifiers and this was with 4 vital players out. Brennan walked because of the road blocks put in front of him. With the covid starting to clear and supporters coming back to games if Eddie Brennan was backed he'd have put 5000 more supporters into ó Moore Park in every match that would be serious revenue. Now it's back to the bad old days and 20 point hamnerings on a regular basis.

Richardkimble (Laois) - Posts: 31 - 30/05/2021 23:43:18    2346760

Link