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McAuley wasn't on that junior team.
Denis Bastick, Eoghan O'Gara and Mick Fitz were though.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 06/01/2021 18:23:55
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Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/09/10/news/kicking-out-amalgamating-counties-as-important-as-splitting-others-1707889/
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24
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The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 377 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30
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Replying To TheUsername: "Yeah, no fair play.
I think its a bit overegged really, but i can understand the principal, its the angle Colm O Rourke looks at it at, though i would have my suspicion sits a bit wolf in sheep's clothing myself, ive actually said that to him myself and he broke his heart laughing - all good fun.
I dont see it as any different as other counties really, i think their are loads of lads particularly in the top 6 counties in Ireland who would have a challenge getting on squads on panels who would start for the majority of counties. Someone like Connor Cox would be an example, he struggled with Kerry but can shoot the lights out in the Championship and bring home a provincial in Connacht. I was thinking of Mayo retirements, with Seamie O Shea, Parsons, Vahgahn calling it a day and with Higgins and Boyle with questions on their minds, i think there is evidence all around the country for lads who would be at top counties who maybe wont play for their counties as much as if they had two teams or played for a different county.
Id wholly acknowledge we have wonderful strength in depth, probably the strongest ever, but i think we do things a little differently. Coaching is very underrated in Dublin, we are wonderful at developing players, im thinking of lads who came into the panel with limits, like Rock, MDM, Macker, Andrews, Cooper, Small and many others, who developed into wonderful players through exposure of high standard and their own application. We really work with players, not that other dont. But its a massively driven competitive environment, you often hear stories coming from training about the A VS B games, its cut throat. Im not sure it would be the same if diluted.
Then i think we have different psychological premise. ive often said it on hear, i was at an intimate thing with Jim Gavin once and when he questioned on why he didnt start a certain player - he said - i dont start with my strongest team i finish with it. So the whole thing about bit part players or not starting doesn't com ein to it. It enables a Paddy Small or a Robbie McDaid stepping in. I think its what enables us to fill gaps as the appear and we have won All Ireland without O Carroll, Jack by 2, Dermo, Mannion etc etc.
I also think something that is also underrated - is you often hear of all the young lads coming through at certain counties, no body, bring as much youth through as Dublin, - 3-4 players every year. Its not a closed shop its fluid, there are standards you have to reach of course, but there isnt a glass ceiling and i think that fairness is enabling for players. This year we had P Small, Bugler, McDaid all making starting debuts in a final and Collie Basquel came on to in the final. You can go back through the years and there is always three or four. If you are good enough you will be in.
Then we have a very knitted system between U20 and Senior, a few U20s are brought in a year or two in advance for senior training while still playing U20 and their development is worked on, while they are still playing U20. POCB is an example and a few other lads this year. Its why Dublin young players seem to always just seamlessly fit in, Howard was the same a few years back.
To be honest, i think the Dublin team is no country for old men, we are ruthless, we could have done what Kerry did with Gooch or Mayo with Moran and kept say Brogan around because of his standing, but no he was ruthlessly axed for Con a few years ago - not many counties do that or maybe can.
Do i feel we loose a few, not really, there are always from club you would like given a whirl but i don't think there is anyone who hasnt come up the ranks, that is of our standard not really involved or hasn't been.
I think we are in a fortunate cycle at the moment, we have some big names on the bench but you wouldn't be surprised if last year was there last year either.
Something i have noticed about Dublin is they know teams will give it hell for leather for 30-40 mins and stick it to the Dubs, sometimes we pick players to battle for that period then bring on players to hurt, when tiredness creeps in - this is very purposeful and part of game management.
So in short, i think we are pretty much the same as most of the top 6 counties, we have wonderful depth, but we also work really hard on development and are quite free with giving opportunities. Sure we could fill two team like counties but it would dilute the quality.
Im not sure why we pulled out of Junior, it was a useful breeding ground for us, but the pathway between U20 and Senor is quite a short one for us and their seems a coherent plan around us. Im not sure we leave many gems behind with an opportunity. Think the point is a bit over egged myself." Fair points,, I agree with you re o Rourke too,, I think his "concern" for the squad players is his way of trying to sweeten the deal lol,,
In 2011 he said that the GAA needed Dublin to win the all Ireland,, 4 seasons later he was putting the feelers out for effectively destroying Dublin.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 06/01/2021 20:17:33
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Replying To MesAmis: "McAuley wasn't on that junior team.
Denis Bastick, Eoghan O'Gara and Mick Fitz were though." Fair play Mes who was on those Junior teams Mes, think we won one in the 00s I have a vague memory on it, remember Bastick was part and I think Connolly though might be one of his brothers, my head keeps going back to random players for some reason, Darren Homan keep popping in there. Johnny Cooper to, but I might be wrong.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 06/01/2021 20:17:41
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Replying To TheUsername: "Fair play Mes who was on those Junior teams Mes, think we won one in the 00s I have a vague memory on it, remember Bastick was part and I think Connolly though might be one of his brothers, my head keeps going back to random players for some reason, Darren Homan keep popping in there. Johnny Cooper to, but I might be wrong." Not sure about Cooper but yes I think Darren HOman did win a junior medal and Bastick and Ó Gara.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 06/01/2021 20:49:37
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/09/10/news/kicking-out-amalgamating-counties-as-important-as-splitting-others-1707889/" Could Cork afford to run football and hurling teans X 2 ? They have good playing numbers for sure but their county board are working like dogs to try and finance what they have.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 06/01/2021 21:07:14
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Could Cork afford to run football and hurling teans X 2 ? They have good playing numbers for sure but their county board are working like dogs to try and finance what they have." If that happened the county boards would be seperate entity's. Ah I don't think it will happen for a long time. Hopefully never. It would destroy what we know. This was brought up during Tommy Lyons time with Dublin but it had to do with giving players a chance. Nothing to do with success. It's raised its head again because of Dublin's success but it should be a non runner.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 07/01/2021 11:45:35
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I think people are forgetting that this thing with splitting Dublin is going on since 2002/03 and Peter Quinn and Christy Cooney were involved is discussions. I was just reading an article where Dublin were going to enter two minor teams in 04 championship. The split that was spoken about was the liffey and believe it or not the suggestion was being considered by Dublin who said they would nt rule it out. Now this was before the rampant success of this team. The ironic thing is that at the time the rest of the country did nt care and it was the gaa hierarchy and Dublin discussing it. Now Dublin don't want it and its a discussion for everyone. You can google old articles in it. As I've said Ó Rourke is calling it for years but I'd be inclined to agree with Username in that he might be the wolf in sheep's clothing. Anyway I genuinely think that 99% of Dublin are against split and I D guess most of the country are too so hopefully it should nt happen in the near future If it was even put on the cards teams can have the bottle to stand up to the gaa like Kildare.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 07/01/2021 12:08:11
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Could Cork afford to run football and hurling teans X 2 ? They have good playing numbers for sure but their county board are working like dogs to try and finance what they have." Certainly Cork could sustain two teams in each code with the playing numbers and population.Finance would be an issue however.I suppose it highlights how flawed the inter county competitions were from inception.
The original AI competitions with clubs representing their counties was fairer and the current format of that... the AI club championship would bear that out....Mullinalaghta beating KIlmacud Crokes in 2018..... a superclub several times bigger than them.
Should All Irelands won back then when it was clubs representing the county be reclassified as AI Club championships....would be an interesting exercise for comparative purposes to the current AI inter county competition.I think there may have been a bigger spread of winners back then.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 12:25:08
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "If that happened the county boards would be seperate entity's. Ah I don't think it will happen for a long time. Hopefully never. It would destroy what we know. This was brought up during Tommy Lyons time with Dublin but it had to do with giving players a chance. Nothing to do with success. It's raised its head again because of Dublin's success but it should be a non runner." Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition.Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change.The inter county game is being killed in Leinster.Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success.Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success.Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "If that happened the county boards would be seperate entity's. Ah I don't think it will happen for a long time. Hopefully never. It would destroy what we know. This was brought up during Tommy Lyons time with Dublin but it had to do with giving players a chance. Nothing to do with success. It's raised its head again because of Dublin's success but it should be a non runner." Mick we better clear something up straight away, I'm not talking about dublin being split as that too incendiary for a kerry man to talk about as that split is gonna happen on its own anyway.
Im talking about how posters on here think Cork would be split and how that would happen both from a geographical sense and a financial sense, personally I couldnt see that happening from a financial point of view unless the gaa were going to bank roll the new Cork County board with a million a year for say 10 years to give them a chance to get up and running.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/01/2021 12:57:58
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I think people are forgetting that this thing with splitting Dublin is going on since 2002/03 and Peter Quinn and Christy Cooney were involved is discussions. I was just reading an article where Dublin were going to enter two minor teams in 04 championship. The split that was spoken about was the liffey and believe it or not the suggestion was being considered by Dublin who said they would nt rule it out. Now this was before the rampant success of this team. The ironic thing is that at the time the rest of the country did nt care and it was the gaa hierarchy and Dublin discussing it. Now Dublin don't want it and its a discussion for everyone. You can google old articles in it. As I've said Ó Rourke is calling it for years but I'd be inclined to agree with Username in that he might be the wolf in sheep's clothing. Anyway I genuinely think that 99% of Dublin are against split and I D guess most of the country are too so hopefully it should nt happen in the near future If it was even put on the cards teams can have the bottle to stand up to the gaa like Kildare." Have you seen the John Connellan proposed motion for Congress for next year Mick:
A motion led by Westmeath footballer John Connellan is already in work for next yrs congress in a 24 pg doc to be sent to all clubs in the coming week.
https://twitter.com/HurlerD/status/1346221711402917890
Ill be voting to get this through to a vote at congress. Really looking forward to this!!!!
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/01/2021 13:02:33
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I think people are forgetting that this thing with splitting Dublin is going on since 2002/03 and Peter Quinn and Christy Cooney were involved is discussions. I was just reading an article where Dublin were going to enter two minor teams in 04 championship. The split that was spoken about was the liffey and believe it or not the suggestion was being considered by Dublin who said they would nt rule it out. Now this was before the rampant success of this team. The ironic thing is that at the time the rest of the country did nt care and it was the gaa hierarchy and Dublin discussing it. Now Dublin don't want it and its a discussion for everyone. You can google old articles in it. As I've said Ó Rourke is calling it for years but I'd be inclined to agree with Username in that he might be the wolf in sheep's clothing. Anyway I genuinely think that 99% of Dublin are against split and I D guess most of the country are too so hopefully it should nt happen in the near future If it was even put on the cards teams can have the bottle to stand up to the gaa like Kildare." As I highlighted earlier in the thread a golden opportunity was lost back then,the split could/should have been done in conjunction with the Dublin financial package...an opportunity was lost.
Nobody is proposing to split Dublin for the sake of it,amalgamated teams for the AI football competition would operate in tandem with this development.Its just part of a plan to have a fairer and more meaningful and competitive AI football competition.
This point seems to be lost on some posters.Shoud we leave very well alone and think taking a few pound from Dublin and spreading it around will sort the problem and having Dublin play away games away?I don't believe anyone is naive enough to believe that is the answer to the ills obtaining presently.
Saying leave it as it is is not acceptable without illustrating how the present situation can be sorted for the good of the game and the players in ALL counties.Leaving a void is no answer.Just vetoing something without a workable replacement is just entering a cul de sac!
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 13:07:49
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "Certainly Cork could sustain two teams in each code with the playing numbers and population.Finance would be an issue however.I suppose it highlights how flawed the inter county competitions were from inception.
The original AI competitions with clubs representing their counties was fairer and the current format of that... the AI club championship would bear that out....Mullinalaghta beating KIlmacud Crokes in 2018..... a superclub several times bigger than them.
Should All Irelands won back then when it was clubs representing the county be reclassified as AI Club championships....would be an interesting exercise for comparative purposes to the current AI inter county competition.I think there may have been a bigger spread of winners back then." That's an interesting 1 about the allirelands won with club teams, I'd like to see the numbers on that if anyone could shed a light, maybe Furlong from meath would know something on this as he knows his gaa history.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/01/2021 13:14:07
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Replying To TheUsername: "Have you seen the John Connellan proposed motion for Congress for next year Mick:
A motion led by Westmeath footballer John Connellan is already in work for next yrs congress in a 24 pg doc to be sent to all clubs in the coming week.
https://twitter.com/HurlerD/status/1346221711402917890
Ill be voting to get this through to a vote at congress. Really looking forward to this!!!!" Yeah I saw it Username and I wonder will his motion even see Congress. Funny thing is I've heard (albeit not reliable) that the money thing has been done a little more fairly the last 2 years. I think the figures Connell en is going by 2007 to 2018.Anyway it will be interesting if nothing else.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 07/01/2021 13:25:45
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Mick we better clear something up straight away, I'm not talking about dublin being split as that too incendiary for a kerry man to talk about as that split is gonna happen on its own anyway.
Im talking about how posters on here think Cork would be split and how that would happen both from a geographical sense and a financial sense, personally I couldnt see that happening from a financial point of view unless the gaa were going to bank roll the new Cork County board with a million a year for say 10 years to give them a chance to get up and running." The gaa never mentioned a split in Cork. I'm just saying that if Dublin were to be split so would Cork as they nearly have the same numbers as Dublin. Probably City and county split. Anyway that's not goi g to happen for a long time if ever so we won't worry about it now.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 07/01/2021 13:35:17
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Yeah I saw it Username and I wonder will his motion even see Congress. Funny thing is I've heard (albeit not reliable) that the money thing has been done a little more fairly the last 2 years. I think the figures Connell en is going by 2007 to 2018.Anyway it will be interesting if nothing else." I'm not sure it will progress myself, ill be voting for it to go forward anyway as id like to see it debated and for the GAA to engage with the debate and id like more national transparency of financial allocation or a clear rationale, im comfortable with Dublins positions for the reasons ive outlined in the thread.
If it goes to congress i think it offers every county a chance to have their say, debate and vote, i think there could be a few counties shifting in their seats as there is often an Omerta on financial allocation, rationale and its use, id be all for transparency. Personally i think it will smoke out a few who don't mind using Dublin as a cash cow, particularly in Leinster.
Its a great chance for all Counties to have a say and or bring about meanigful change.
The cynic in me thinks the bauld John is in this profile myself, but ill be open minded and look at the good that could come, i hope it goes forward - over to you Ireland.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 07/01/2021 13:49:11
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "The gaa never mentioned a split in Cork. I'm just saying that if Dublin were to be split so would Cork as they nearly have the same numbers as Dublin. Probably City and county split. Anyway that's not goi g to happen for a long time if ever so we won't worry about it now." Time will tell mick, what are the playing numbers in Cork and dublin? That info should be available.
Also we've all been using these numbers for years so why don't the gaa come out and update them and clear everything up?
The top men in the gaa are getting paid big money to run the organisation and we're all stakeholders in the gaa so why won't they come out once and for all and clear everything up? That is if everything is above board and they have nothing to hide,
I'm surprised that journalists and others haven't called this out.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/01/2021 14:01:02
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Replying To TheUsername: "I'm not sure it will progress myself, ill be voting for it to go forward anyway as id like to see it debated and for the GAA to engage with the debate and id like more national transparency of financial allocation or a clear rationale, im comfortable with Dublins positions for the reasons ive outlined in the thread.
If it goes to congress i think it offers every county a chance to have their say, debate and vote, i think there could be a few counties shifting in their seats as there is often an Omerta on financial allocation, rationale and its use, id be all for transparency. Personally i think it will smoke out a few who don't mind using Dublin as a cash cow, particularly in Leinster.
Its a great chance for all Counties to have a say and or bring about meanigful change.
The cynic in me thinks the bauld John is in this profile myself, but ill be open minded and look at the good that could come, i hope it goes forward - over to you Ireland." Yes Username as I say it will be interesting.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3674 - 07/01/2021 14:14:12
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