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Replying To TheUsername: "Have you seen the John Connellan proposed motion for Congress for next year Mick:
A motion led by Westmeath footballer John Connellan is already in work for next yrs congress in a 24 pg doc to be sent to all clubs in the coming week.
https://twitter.com/HurlerD/status/1346221711402917890
Ill be voting to get this through to a vote at congress. Really looking forward to this!!!!" Hopefully it will be debated,a fairer apportioning of finances is only right and proper.Having said that I did agree with what was done in Dublin.Most GAA people feared for the organization in Dublin and we all recognized the financial implications of not having Dublin involved competitively.There was a bit of naked monetarism involved in the thinking at the time but perhaps not formally.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 14:46:22
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "The gaa never mentioned a split in Cork. I'm just saying that if Dublin were to be split so would Cork as they nearly have the same numbers as Dublin. Probably City and county split. Anyway that's not goi g to happen for a long time if ever so we won't worry about it now." One would have to say that Cork are underperforming for its population size and playing numbers.Perhaps having autocratic,conservative and insular leadership for a long period is partly to blame.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 14:52:55
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Time will tell mick, what are the playing numbers in Cork and dublin? That info should be available.
Also we've all been using these numbers for years so why don't the gaa come out and update them and clear everything up?
The top men in the gaa are getting paid big money to run the organisation and we're all stakeholders in the gaa so why won't they come out once and for all and clear everything up? That is if everything is above board and they have nothing to hide,
I'm surprised that journalists and others haven't called this out." I heard on radio a couple of weeks ago about 40000 in Dublin and about 34000 on Cork. Now that's registered players. That prob includes all ages and not sure whether it includes the ladies. I would nt say its any big secret. Cork have more clubs than Dublin altho I know some clubs in Cork are not dual so players would play for two clubs like Damien Cahalane plays football for Castle haven and hurling for St. Finbarrs (I think).
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 07/01/2021 16:31:03
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "One would have to say that Cork are underperforming for its population size and playing numbers.Perhaps having autocratic,conservative and insular leadership for a long period is partly to blame." Yes they are under performing at senior level but remember in football they won u 20 lín 2019 and are reigning all ireland minor champions.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 07/01/2021 16:33:05
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Replying To hopballref: "The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football." Development officers are appointed to schools as much as clubs. Clubs in Dublin pay 50% of the cost. The idea of development officers is to develop areas that don't have a thriving GAA scene, not those areas that do. The big clubs in Dublin don't benefit particularly from development funding, any more then any other club anywhere in the country.
Who would audit travelling expenses or would this become a way to get pay for play courtesy of central funds? There is merit in the idea of centralised travelling expenses, but it is very open to abuse.
What is the benefit of a fully paid CEO? It's the quality of the guy leading the county that counts, not if he gets paid or not. Paying someone does not guarantee quality. What is the role of the CEO? Does he supersede the role of the county Chairman - if so, does all electable accountability cease to exist.
Stadiums - This is symptomatic of a key issue. Counties are spending on infrastructure, not development. They need to stop spending on stadiums and 'centres of excellence' or (centres of mediocreness), and concentrate on getting kids to play the games. That is their raison d'etre. If there was more emphasis on getting more kids to play counties would ultimately achieve far more success. Although success should be counted as a percentage of kids playing, not what counties are winning.
This thread is very interesting as it shows the lack of knowledge out there about the supposed advantages Dublin has. Yet, at the same time what is available from Dublin is a roadmap about how to achieve success. 1. Develop the base, not the infrastructure, 2. Concentrate on the core skills and getting as many kids to master these as possible. 3. Don't go mad on ego projects and things that detract from achieving 1 and 2 above. Yet, instead of learning from it, people seem more intent on bringing Dublin down to their level.
In Louth we have an excellent training facility in Darver, soon we will have a very modern nice stadium. But we have completely no vision on how to develop the games, particularly in Dundalk and Drogheda. Hurling is not even mentioned at most development events. We are no worse then most counties in this - we have the roadmap up the road on how to go about it, but would prefer to do the same old stuff because everyone is in their comfort zone.
dougal123 (Louth) - Posts: 11 - 07/01/2021 18:02:24
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "I heard on radio a couple of weeks ago about 40000 in Dublin and about 34000 on Cork. Now that's registered players. That prob includes all ages and not sure whether it includes the ladies. I would nt say its any big secret. Cork have more clubs than Dublin altho I know some clubs in Cork are not dual so players would play for two clubs like Damien Cahalane plays football for Castle haven and hurling for St. Finbarrs (I think)." Jay's so in 5 years (because we're running on 2016s numbers) dublin have only increased their playing numbers by 1000 mick?
So what are all the games development officers doing for the last 4-5 years in dublin? Dougal from louth just said they don't go to areas and schools where children are all ready playing gaelic games but they go to places where football and hurling isn't really played, pat Gilroy says there is no gaa between the 2 canals and this after 18 years of GDO's?
personally if I was the chairman of the dublin County board I'd be asking questions of the GDO's and if I was a high ranking gaa official I'd be asking the dublin County board some hard question of what are we getting for our money we're pumping in.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 07/01/2021 19:11:47
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Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
link
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24 That isnt really a good idea. It takes a lot away from what makes the GAA strongest organisation in the country.
Number of clubs alone means very little as does club teams. Can anyone name any sports that have all teams within competitions split like that?
Everyone always puts competition formats with all teams always competing in the same all ireland championship.
Put in a proper tiered structure for the main competition of the year. dont have pre season competitions at all.
Dont finish the league before the championship starts.
Many counties have never been really competitive for all ireland or even provincial titles. That doesnt mean they should combine.
Put in a properly tiered all ireland championship and you give these smaller/weaker counties more attainable goals.
The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 287 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers.
When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing?
Moving all Dublin games except all ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties.
Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition. Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change. The inter county game is being killed in Leinster. Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success. Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success. Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27How does that help the GAA?
Getting rid of counties takes away one of the strongest positives of the GAA and would give other sports an easier way to get lots more playing their sports and kids and adults may turn away from GAA entirely.
The inter county game may be amateur but we're talking about the elite level of the game. Its not under 12s where every kid gets a participation medal for taking part.
Most counties have never in the history of the inter county all ireland series been competitive. Dublin dominating makes no difference to that.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 07/01/2021 19:31:53
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Replying To KillingFields: " Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
link
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24 That isnt really a good idea. It takes a lot away from what makes the GAA strongest organisation in the country. Number of clubs alone means very little as does club teams. Can anyone name any sports that have all teams within competitions split like that? Everyone always puts competition formats with all teams always competing in the same all ireland championship. Put in a proper tiered structure for the main competition of the year. dont have pre season competitions at all. Dont finish the league before the championship starts. Many counties have never been really competitive for all ireland or even provincial titles. That doesnt mean they should combine. Put in a properly tiered all ireland championship and you give these smaller/weaker counties more attainable goals. The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 287 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? Moving all Dublin games except all ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition. Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change. The inter county game is being killed in Leinster. Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success. Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success. Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27How does that help the GAA? Getting rid of counties takes away one of the strongest positives of the GAA and would give other sports an easier way to get lots more playing their sports and kids and adults may turn away from GAA entirely. The inter county game may be amateur but we're talking about the elite level of the game. Its not under 12s where every kid gets a participation medal for taking part. Most counties have never in the history of the inter county all ireland series been competitive. Dublin dominating makes no difference to that."
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1835 - 07/01/2021 19:31:53
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So you seem to be willing to leave it like that with loads of teams and players never having the opportunity to play competitively at an elite level! I believe in equality and equal opportunity and in an amateur sport this can be accomplished.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 19:45:35
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Replying To dougal123: "Development officers are appointed to schools as much as clubs. Clubs in Dublin pay 50% of the cost. The idea of development officers is to develop areas that don't have a thriving GAA scene, not those areas that do. The big clubs in Dublin don't benefit particularly from development funding, any more then any other club anywhere in the country.
Who would audit travelling expenses or would this become a way to get pay for play courtesy of central funds? There is merit in the idea of centralised travelling expenses, but it is very open to abuse.
What is the benefit of a fully paid CEO? It's the quality of the guy leading the county that counts, not if he gets paid or not. Paying someone does not guarantee quality. What is the role of the CEO? Does he supersede the role of the county Chairman - if so, does all electable accountability cease to exist.
Stadiums - This is symptomatic of a key issue. Counties are spending on infrastructure, not development. They need to stop spending on stadiums and 'centres of excellence' or (centres of mediocreness), and concentrate on getting kids to play the games. That is their raison d'etre. If there was more emphasis on getting more kids to play counties would ultimately achieve far more success. Although success should be counted as a percentage of kids playing, not what counties are winning.
This thread is very interesting as it shows the lack of knowledge out there about the supposed advantages Dublin has. Yet, at the same time what is available from Dublin is a roadmap about how to achieve success. 1. Develop the base, not the infrastructure, 2. Concentrate on the core skills and getting as many kids to master these as possible. 3. Don't go mad on ego projects and things that detract from achieving 1 and 2 above. Yet, instead of learning from it, people seem more intent on bringing Dublin down to their level.
In Louth we have an excellent training facility in Darver, soon we will have a very modern nice stadium. But we have completely no vision on how to develop the games, particularly in Dundalk and Drogheda. Hurling is not even mentioned at most development events. We are no worse then most counties in this - we have the roadmap up the road on how to go about it, but would prefer to do the same old stuff because everyone is in their comfort zone." The gaa penetration figures in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Council area are very poor,one wonders if superclubs is the way to go.Surely it would be better to have more smaller clubs than a huge superclub drawing members from a wide area.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 19:49:24
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Jay's so in 5 years (because we're running on 2016s numbers) dublin have only increased their playing numbers by 1000 mick?
So what are all the games development officers doing for the last 4-5 years in dublin? Dougal from louth just said they don't go to areas and schools where children are all ready playing gaelic games but they go to places where football and hurling isn't really played, pat Gilroy says there is no gaa between the 2 canals and this after 18 years of GDO's?
personally if I was the chairman of the dublin County board I'd be asking questions of the GDO's and if I was a high ranking gaa official I'd be asking the dublin County board some hard question of what are we getting for our money we're pumping in." The numbers were to 2018 I think and I heard on radio there s over 40 000 now in Dublin. I'm not totally sure of the numbers.The interest is sky high now in Dublin compared to 10 yrs ago.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 07/01/2021 20:18:07
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Replying To ONdeDITCH: "The gaa penetration figures in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co Council area are very poor,one wonders if superclubs is the way to go.Surely it would be better to have more smaller clubs than a huge superclub drawing members from a wide area." Personally I am against super clubs (and I would have played with one for a long period). As large or as small as any club is, it is only going to produce 20/25 senior players per code at any one time. That means every other player only gets to play junior, intermediate or at best senior B. Big clubs are losing a huge amount of players this way, and the GAA is losing a lot of players also.
I would prefer more smaller clubs and if needed, have more regional leagues. There are lots of areas in the country that are not counties but would have enough players to facilitate a more local league. So instead of having 3 super clubs fielding 5 adult teams each, you could have 10 to 15 clubs fielding one team and competing against each other.
For a young lad coming out of minor, it looks like nearly an impossible task to make his way into the senior side within some clubs unless he is county standard. Yet, other clubs without these numbers can have a smoother transition but are often not that far behind the super club in terms of standard. Some of this is because young lads in super clubs are being judged, and having their future decided, based on their form in one short moment in time. Many a young lad had a loss of form at 18 and rediscovered it at 19, or in lots of instance - discovered it for the first time at 19. Yet, in a large club he is basically cast aside by then. In the smaller club, he has more of a chance to work his way back without being cast out to being battered around a junior B pitch.
It is tricky, because large clubs are doing what they have been tasked to do, provide playing opportunities for as many people as possible. It's not their fault they are good at it. But I do think more clubs is a better solution. How that transition would be made though is tough to figure out.
dougal123 (Louth) - Posts: 11 - 07/01/2021 21:14:54
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So you seem to be willing to leave it like that with loads of teams and players never having the opportunity to play competitively at an elite level! I believe in equality and equal opportunity and in an amateur sport this can be accomplished.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 556 - 07/01/2021 19:45:35 There is no sport or sporting competition that isnt that way.
You have teams at the top who compete to win all or most of the time, teams who can challenge occasionally, teams who can challenge to win the trophies once in a blue moon and the sides that will never win regardless baring the most unlikely of miracles.
Thats life. thats sport especially at the elite top level of a sport.
What exactly should be competitive any way at elite level?
It cant be accomplished. The changes proposed would see some of these sides always competing to win trophies mainly those made up mainly of the counties who are dominating already and the rest wont like they are now.
so what then do you keep changing around these teams to try find new winners?
Thats exactly how not to maintain interest in the sport
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 07/01/2021 22:25:24
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Replying To dougal123: "Personally I am against super clubs (and I would have played with one for a long period). As large or as small as any club is, it is only going to produce 20/25 senior players per code at any one time. That means every other player only gets to play junior, intermediate or at best senior B. Big clubs are losing a huge amount of players this way, and the GAA is losing a lot of players also.
I would prefer more smaller clubs and if needed, have more regional leagues. There are lots of areas in the country that are not counties but would have enough players to facilitate a more local league. So instead of having 3 super clubs fielding 5 adult teams each, you could have 10 to 15 clubs fielding one team and competing against each other.
For a young lad coming out of minor, it looks like nearly an impossible task to make his way into the senior side within some clubs unless he is county standard. Yet, other clubs without these numbers can have a smoother transition but are often not that far behind the super club in terms of standard. Some of this is because young lads in super clubs are being judged, and having their future decided, based on their form in one short moment in time. Many a young lad had a loss of form at 18 and rediscovered it at 19, or in lots of instance - discovered it for the first time at 19. Yet, in a large club he is basically cast aside by then. In the smaller club, he has more of a chance to work his way back without being cast out to being battered around a junior B pitch.
It is tricky, because large clubs are doing what they have been tasked to do, provide playing opportunities for as many people as possible. It's not their fault they are good at it. But I do think more clubs is a better solution. How that transition would be made though is tough to figure out." I dont like phrase super club. Its just a large club.
Yes a club regardless of size can only produce 20/25 players for the team it has playing at the highest grade be it senior, intermediate or junior but that doesnt mean big clubs are losing players. Players have many levels to play on and people have more options to play socially or seriously if they so wish
There isnt too many of these so called super clubs anyway. How many clubs do you consider to be a "super club" btw?
Where these very big clubs exist where do you find areas for these new clubs to play and loads more clubs with just one or two teams doesnt make for better competitive football. if you are the best in your club and theyre fielding maybe 5 teams the standard will be higher than if your club only has 1/2 teams for the most part.
A well managed large club doesnt and doesnt have to cast aside any players like that example of yours as being such a large club if they keep the player playing he can work his way back in.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 07/01/2021 22:37:13
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Replying To dougal123: "Personally I am against super clubs (and I would have played with one for a long period). As large or as small as any club is, it is only going to produce 20/25 senior players per code at any one time. That means every other player only gets to play junior, intermediate or at best senior B. Big clubs are losing a huge amount of players this way, and the GAA is losing a lot of players also.
I would prefer more smaller clubs and if needed, have more regional leagues. There are lots of areas in the country that are not counties but would have enough players to facilitate a more local league. So instead of having 3 super clubs fielding 5 adult teams each, you could have 10 to 15 clubs fielding one team and competing against each other.
For a young lad coming out of minor, it looks like nearly an impossible task to make his way into the senior side within some clubs unless he is county standard. Yet, other clubs without these numbers can have a smoother transition but are often not that far behind the super club in terms of standard. Some of this is because young lads in super clubs are being judged, and having their future decided, based on their form in one short moment in time. Many a young lad had a loss of form at 18 and rediscovered it at 19, or in lots of instance - discovered it for the first time at 19. Yet, in a large club he is basically cast aside by then. In the smaller club, he has more of a chance to work his way back without being cast out to being battered around a junior B pitch.
It is tricky, because large clubs are doing what they have been tasked to do, provide playing opportunities for as many people as possible. It's not their fault they are good at it. But I do think more clubs is a better solution. How that transition would be made though is tough to figure out." I wonder if the GAA at Croke Park level had a hands on approach to forming new clubs and a more active rather than passive participation in the formation and growing of new clubs could we have a better result.Perhaps its time for a template and standardisation of new club formation with Croke park taking the lead.
I hear what you're saying regarding the super clubs and losing players.
Is there a sports consultative body like PWC for business that can be hired to look into every aspect of the GAA and make recommendations as to what might be best practice regarding team structures and competitions,club formation etc etc the whole gamut of the gaa.I mean this as a positive process.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 873 - 07/01/2021 22:46:30
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Looks like a CEO/CFO role being created in Mayo.
The GAA's Human Resources Department has advertised a new position that is being created in Mayo GAA.
The new full time role of Operations & Finance Manager is being created.
Among the responsibilities of the role are being directly responsible for assisting the Mayo County Executive in formulating the long and short term objectives and priorities for the development of games in Mayo, whilst carrying out duties in relation to the day to day management and operations of the County Executive's activities.
Among the requirements for those applying for the position are at least 3-5 years' experience of working in the GAA or similar sporting organisation (Voluntary or Professional Capacity).
- Interesting this looks like a full time, professional role, wonder how it's being funded?
- Being advertised by the GAA as opposed to Mayo County Board, again I wonder who is funding, seems like the GAA, who also look to be doing the recruitment process.
- Move toward the Dublin governance structure.
- Wonder why Mayo were chosen? Suspect it's because they have huge commercial revenue or perhaps it's the after effect of the Tim O Leary governance and transparency concerns.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 08/01/2021 00:39:57
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Replying To dougal123: "Development officers are appointed to schools as much as clubs. Clubs in Dublin pay 50% of the cost. The idea of development officers is to develop areas that don't have a thriving GAA scene, not those areas that do. The big clubs in Dublin don't benefit particularly from development funding, any more then any other club anywhere in the country.
Who would audit travelling expenses or would this become a way to get pay for play courtesy of central funds? There is merit in the idea of centralised travelling expenses, but it is very open to abuse.
What is the benefit of a fully paid CEO? It's the quality of the guy leading the county that counts, not if he gets paid or not. Paying someone does not guarantee quality. What is the role of the CEO? Does he supersede the role of the county Chairman - if so, does all electable accountability cease to exist.
Stadiums - This is symptomatic of a key issue. Counties are spending on infrastructure, not development. They need to stop spending on stadiums and 'centres of excellence' or (centres of mediocreness), and concentrate on getting kids to play the games. That is their raison d'etre. If there was more emphasis on getting more kids to play counties would ultimately achieve far more success. Although success should be counted as a percentage of kids playing, not what counties are winning.
This thread is very interesting as it shows the lack of knowledge out there about the supposed advantages Dublin has. Yet, at the same time what is available from Dublin is a roadmap about how to achieve success. 1. Develop the base, not the infrastructure, 2. Concentrate on the core skills and getting as many kids to master these as possible. 3. Don't go mad on ego projects and things that detract from achieving 1 and 2 above. Yet, instead of learning from it, people seem more intent on bringing Dublin down to their level.
In Louth we have an excellent training facility in Darver, soon we will have a very modern nice stadium. But we have completely no vision on how to develop the games, particularly in Dundalk and Drogheda. Hurling is not even mentioned at most development events. We are no worse then most counties in this - we have the roadmap up the road on how to go about it, but would prefer to do the same old stuff because everyone is in their comfort zone." The big clubs in Dublin don't benefit particularly from development funding, any more then any other club anywhere in the country
Exactly - therefore the big clubs do not need the funding. The likes of Na Fianna, Vincent's etc should pay 100% of this cost and their 50% should be distributed elsewhere to clubs that need it.
Who would audit travelling expenses or would this become a way to get pay for play courtesy of central funds? There is merit in the idea of centralised travelling expenses, but it is very open to abuse.
Who audits travelling expenses in any organisation? If Galway have to travel to Croke Park to play the Dubs - there is a significant cost involved with that. There is significant cost in players, coaches, physios etc travelling to training each week that Dublin don't have - or at least have far less of.
What is the benefit of a fully paid CEO? It's the quality of the guy leading the county that counts, not if he gets paid or not. Paying someone does not guarantee quality. What is the role of the CEO? Does he supersede the role of the county Chairman - if so, does all electable accountability cease to exist.
A CEO would solely be in charge of running the county's finances from fundraising to how the money should be spent. A chairman would be in charge of everything else.
Counties are spending on infrastructure, not development. They need to stop spending on stadiums and 'centres of excellence' or (centres of mediocreness), and concentrate on getting kids to play the games.
You obviously need the sufficient facilities to perform at an elite level. It is about getting the balance right. Dublin do not have to worry about stadium costs - and instead can focus on kids playing the game. Not the case in other counties and the GAA/government need to help with this. You need good stadiums in each county's to host championship matches - end of.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 377 - 08/01/2021 09:53:46
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Replying To KillingFields: " Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
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ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24 That isnt really a good idea. It takes a lot away from what makes the GAA strongest organisation in the country. Number of clubs alone means very little as does club teams. Can anyone name any sports that have all teams within competitions split like that? Everyone always puts competition formats with all teams always competing in the same all ireland championship. Put in a proper tiered structure for the main competition of the year. dont have pre season competitions at all. Dont finish the league before the championship starts. Many counties have never been really competitive for all ireland or even provincial titles. That doesnt mean they should combine. Put in a properly tiered all ireland championship and you give these smaller/weaker counties more attainable goals. The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 287 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? Moving all Dublin games except all ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition. Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change. The inter county game is being killed in Leinster. Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success. Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success. Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27How does that help the GAA? Getting rid of counties takes away one of the strongest positives of the GAA and would give other sports an easier way to get lots more playing their sports and kids and adults may turn away from GAA entirely. The inter county game may be amateur but we're talking about the elite level of the game. Its not under 12s where every kid gets a participation medal for taking part. Most counties have never in the history of the inter county all ireland series been competitive. Dublin dominating makes no difference to that."
Na Fianna, Vincent's etc would be major clubs. I am now sure of the exact figures but it would be easy enough to define a major club by researching member numbers, annual income etc. I never said remove development officers - I said remove the funding of them. That is the problem - its not that easy to get sponsors in smaller counties.
When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing?
The same as John Costello.
Moving all Dublin games except all Ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties.
It's a huge advantage to Dublin playing in Croke Park. Stephen Cluxton has played around 100 games in Croke Park. The GAA is supposed to be an amateur organisation and fairness and equality should prevail. Croke Park is a national stadium - yet the Dubs play their all the time. Why can't a Mayo/Galway or Cork/Kerry provincial final be on in Croke Park to give our players that experience. The government need to intervene and provide funding also - not just the GAA. Its like lambs to the slaughter for most teams against Dublin in Croke Park - but games might be a bit tighter if Dublin had to travel.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 377 - 08/01/2021 10:05:18
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Replying To hopballref: " Replying To KillingFields: " Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
link
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24 That isnt really a good idea. It takes a lot away from what makes the GAA strongest organisation in the country. Number of clubs alone means very little as does club teams. Can anyone name any sports that have all teams within competitions split like that? Everyone always puts competition formats with all teams always competing in the same all ireland championship. Put in a proper tiered structure for the main competition of the year. dont have pre season competitions at all. Dont finish the league before the championship starts. Many counties have never been really competitive for all ireland or even provincial titles. That doesnt mean they should combine. Put in a properly tiered all ireland championship and you give these smaller/weaker counties more attainable goals. The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 287 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? Moving all Dublin games except all ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition. Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change. The inter county game is being killed in Leinster. Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success. Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success. Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27How does that help the GAA? Getting rid of counties takes away one of the strongest positives of the GAA and would give other sports an easier way to get lots more playing their sports and kids and adults may turn away from GAA entirely. The inter county game may be amateur but we're talking about the elite level of the game. Its not under 12s where every kid gets a participation medal for taking part. Most counties have never in the history of the inter county all ireland series been competitive. Dublin dominating makes no difference to that." What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. Na Fianna, Vincent's etc would be major clubs. I am now sure of the exact figures but it would be easy enough to define a major club by researching member numbers, annual income etc. I never said remove development officers - I said remove the funding of them. That is the problem - its not that easy to get sponsors in smaller counties. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? The same as John Costello. Moving all Dublin games except all Ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. It's a huge advantage to Dublin playing in Croke Park. Stephen Cluxton has played around 100 games in Croke Park. The GAA is supposed to be an amateur organisation and fairness and equality should prevail. Croke Park is a national stadium - yet the Dubs play their all the time. Why can't a Mayo/Galway or Cork/Kerry provincial final be on in Croke Park to give our players that experience. The government need to intervene and provide funding also - not just the GAA. Its like lambs to the slaughter for most teams against Dublin in Croke Park - but games might be a bit tighter if Dublin had to travel."
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 08/01/2021 13:37:46
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Replying To CiarraiMick: " Replying To hopballref: "[quote=KillingFields: " Cahair O'Kane's plan for splitting teams and also amalgamating teams....from The Irish News Sept 2019.He did a lot of work on the number of clubs etc in each county.Interestingly he is in favour of Cork being split also.There is a huge population in Cork so perhaps he has a point.It makes an interesting read with his map of the new look "counties".
link
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 06/01/2021 19:37:24 That isnt really a good idea. It takes a lot away from what makes the GAA strongest organisation in the country. Number of clubs alone means very little as does club teams. Can anyone name any sports that have all teams within competitions split like that? Everyone always puts competition formats with all teams always competing in the same all ireland championship. Put in a proper tiered structure for the main competition of the year. dont have pre season competitions at all. Dont finish the league before the championship starts. Many counties have never been really competitive for all ireland or even provincial titles. That doesnt mean they should combine. Put in a properly tiered all ireland championship and you give these smaller/weaker counties more attainable goals. The GAA should have no problem doing the below as a start to solve the problem.
- Take away games development funding from the MAJOR clubs in Dublin and distribute it across the country. They don't need it. This will help countys appoint games development officers.
-Support other counties financially with regard to travelling expenses (Dublin dont have this cost)
-Support other counties (who need it) with stadium costs (Dublin dont have this cost)
- Ensure there is a fully paid CEO for each county.
- Move all Dublin games except All Ireland semi final and final outside Croke Park.
Taking the above costs away from other counties will help ensure they can concentrate solely on football.
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 287 - 06/01/2021 20:16:30What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? Moving all Dublin games except all ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. Perhaps it is time to destroy what we have and build a fairer and more even competition. Leaving well enough alone and hoping for the best outcome has got us to where we are today and without question that needs to change. The inter county game is being killed in Leinster. Players taking up a sport today want to take part in a competition which is fair and where every team has a reasonable chanced of success. Its not a professional game where the survival of the fittest financially goes a long way to success. Because its amateur it can be restructured and be all inclusive competitively.
ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 553 - 07/01/2021 12:36:27How does that help the GAA? Getting rid of counties takes away one of the strongest positives of the GAA and would give other sports an easier way to get lots more playing their sports and kids and adults may turn away from GAA entirely. The inter county game may be amateur but we're talking about the elite level of the game. Its not under 12s where every kid gets a participation medal for taking part. Most counties have never in the history of the inter county all ireland series been competitive. Dublin dominating makes no difference to that." What exactly do you define as a major club in Dublin? And why is removing development officers a good idea? Just apportion funding from elsewhere to appoint more development officers in other counties. Get sponsors in to help counties fund more development officers. Na Fianna, Vincent's etc would be major clubs. I am now sure of the exact figures but it would be easy enough to define a major club by researching member numbers, annual income etc. I never said remove development officers - I said remove the funding of them. That is the problem - its not that easy to get sponsors in smaller counties. When you say get in a full time CEO for each county what do you want that CEO to be doing? The same as John Costello. Moving all Dublin games except all Ireland semis and final from Croke Park just loses the GAA millions. They are getting tens of thousands attending games and many venues are not near that so how do you replace that income especially when you are looking to spend so much more to financially support other counties. It's a huge advantage to Dublin playing in Croke Park. Stephen Cluxton has played around 100 games in Croke Park. The GAA is supposed to be an amateur organisation and fairness and equality should prevail. Croke Park is a national stadium - yet the Dubs play their all the time. Why can't a Mayo/Galway or Cork/Kerry provincial final be on in Croke Park to give our players that experience. The government need to intervene and provide funding also - not just the GAA. Its like lambs to the slaughter for most teams against Dublin in Croke Park - but games might be a bit tighter if Dublin had to travel."
hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 377 - 08/01/2021 13:51:55
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Yeah i think that is a very easy solution, id back it to - all away games or whatever, even the final. Youd loose gate, but so be it, you'd always get a hardcore 10k on the road for a lesser games and more for bigger. I want a crack at Kerry in Kilarrney, a trip to the Pairc and ive a few hotel vouchers in Galway burning a hole in my pocket since the league game was canceled in March.
Wont hold my breath, but id like to see this happen, its in the motion proposed by John Connellen which i will be supporting.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 08/01/2021 14:19:19
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