National Forum

Ulster Final Donegal V Cavan

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Replying To Gator:  "2013 seems like a lifetime ago. I have wry smile re Donegal in 2013. I don't recall hearing any of those excuses before the game from any quarter. I went to the game thinking we were unlikely to win. Most took a win for granted...nothing more. Monaghan had no respect for them that day....never really had for some reason. I think Donegal is one of those teams that Monaghan seem to get the better of more often than not.

Monaghan and Down have made that same mistake with Cavan this year."
Monaghan and Donegal have an even record since 2013 I believe. Wouldn't say Monaghan are on top.

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 902 - 18/11/2020 19:17:24    2311181

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Best thing for Cavan fans this Sunday is they won't have to pay into the game, that might help cheer them up Sunday evening.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1164 - 18/11/2020 19:53:59    2311192

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Monaghan and Donegal have an even record since 2013 I believe. Wouldn't say Monaghan are on top."
I would agree with this. In ever really looked forward to playing them in the past.

Since that 2013 hammering, it has been nip and tuck between the sides.
I would be a lot more optimistic with our chances playing Monaghan in future games, based on our recent progress.

But we will have to be content with Cavan this weekend, a game that I am really looking forward to.
I think they will lump high ball in to test us in around the full back line, but that will mean gambling with coughing up possession and one less play to use in the 70 minutes if it fails. A gamble worth taking maybe. We might do a bit of it ourselves. I think both teams will set up very positively.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 18/11/2020 20:51:05    2311212

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Monaghan and Donegal have an even record since 2013 I believe. Wouldn't say Monaghan are on top."
Yes however Monaghan always seemed to have our number over the years previous, I always hate getting them. I remember in the run up to 2013 my father and I would reminisce about the 1979 Ulster final, we were going for our third Ulster in 7 years and Finlay put on an exhibition.

They also beat us out the gate in '84 I think it was, we had beaten Down in the preliminary and there was a bit of a buzz about the team after we'd won the U21 All-Ireland a few years previous as well as a senior title I think the previous year? May be misremembering but I do remember Monaghan hammered us, I think Martin McHugh got every point for us that day.

In terms of 2013 there's no doubt there was complacency and I think there was an element of thinking we had won Ulster after beating Tyrone in the first round in Ballybofey. We peaked in May and never really looked at the races after that in 2013, Monaghan took huge advantage.

Anyway bit of a tangent from Sunday!

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1162 - 18/11/2020 21:22:43    2311233

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Might we see Jason Mc Gee on Sunday. I think we're could possibly see Hugh Mc Fadden playing a deeper role in front of the full back line incase of high ball coming in. This could mean bringing Jason Mc Gee in to play the cover at chb.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1636 - 18/11/2020 21:44:43    2311244

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Is there any way on earth or in any other infernal region that Cavan can even get into a position in this game where they might even look like they have a chance of winning? Logic says definitely not, but sport is sport and we'll all be watching. You never know ...

PS: Cavan manager laughs off notion that Murphy is not protected enough by refs and tries to say big lad like Murphy, well able to look after himself and really it's other players need protection from him etc.

Nice try, but anyone who's actually been to games that Murphy has played him knows full well it's the other way around. Sure, he's a big lad, but he gets dogs abuse and is systematically half-fouled in every game he plays in. He actually is disadvantaged by being a big guy. First, refs think: "he can take care of himself"; and, second, his strength keeps him on his feet, when a smaller guy might already have hit the deck.

Sure, managers have to say that coming up to a big game, but everyone knows it's b/s

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 838 - 18/11/2020 21:48:34    2311245

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I have never posted on hoganstand and I haven't got anything to do with Cavan but the way some of the Donegal posters are going on especially Tir Conaill and that lad under the Yankee name, you would swear that Donegal are traditional powerhouses of football. Ye have two all Ireland and not a whole pile of Ulster's. Enjoy it while it lasts ye will go back to being minnows at some stage, just like Cavan, like ourselves, Offaly, Cork and countless other counties over the years. Donegal has a very good team at the moment but there no Dublin or Kerry. On Sunday it's 15 men against 15 anything can happen. Cavan are there on merit they have beat every team in Ulster over the last two years apart from Tyrone and Donegal. Some of the posts that Donegal lads have put up are verging on that Cavan are only like the dirt on the Donegals boots.

Updlocal (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 18/11/2020 22:27:06    2311268

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Best thing for Cavan fans this Sunday is they won't have to pay into the game, that might help cheer them up Sunday evening."
If Donegal mess up and are beat, might as well give Sam to the Dubs early.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 362 - 18/11/2020 23:17:09    2311281

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Replying To catch22:  "Well done on taking that spin on my post 10 brains.
True Caavan intellectual that you are.
Let me explain it for you , or at least try to. Not sure there is much point though with you as you're a bit like that other Fly gasson. Must be a Cavan thing.
The point was that Cavan are relatively poor in comparison to Donegal and would not have reached this stage had the opposition been up to their standard. Enjoy the run up as it's going to be the best part."
hey, whoever you are you can shut the front door with those racist comments.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5367 - 18/11/2020 23:30:20    2311282

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Donegal need to reach the same levels as Armagh match. If they do, they win by double digits. If they don't it will be a dog fight and a 3 or4 point game.

I hope its not 2013 over again but I just can't see it

Donegal 4-17 Cavan 12.

Don't mean to be disrespectful to Cavan. They are missing players and have done really well the past 2 years. Great manager and some excellent players. Just feel we are motoring well.

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 574 - 18/11/2020 23:43:07    2311285

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Replying To s goldrick:  "hey, whoever you are you can shut the front door with those racist comments."
Absolute joke. That's probably why he hides behind his county as being the USA. So come on catch 22 what county are you from?

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 150 - 19/11/2020 09:32:29    2311304

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Replying To TheRock2121:  "Donegal need to reach the same levels as Armagh match. If they do, they win by double digits. If they don't it will be a dog fight and a 3 or4 point game.

I hope its not 2013 over again but I just can't see it

Donegal 4-17 Cavan 12.

Don't mean to be disrespectful to Cavan. They are missing players and have done really well the past 2 years. Great manager and some excellent players. Just feel we are motoring well."
No disrespect you say, but then are completely disrespectful. You seriously think you're winning by 15+ points? I really do hope your team is thinking the same way too, as that's how you'll be caught out. Cavan are a decent team, and have learned a lot last few years, including from yourselves in the final last year. Ye got no challenge in the semi from Armagh, you didn't need to get to any big levels there. Easy to motor when they don't even lay a glove on you. This is a final, and against a team that doesn't know when to die, and it won't be as easy as you think.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 993 - 19/11/2020 10:11:57    2311316

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Replying To Updlocal:  "I have never posted on hoganstand and I haven't got anything to do with Cavan but the way some of the Donegal posters are going on especially Tir Conaill and that lad under the Yankee name, you would swear that Donegal are traditional powerhouses of football. Ye have two all Ireland and not a whole pile of Ulster's. Enjoy it while it lasts ye will go back to being minnows at some stage, just like Cavan, like ourselves, Offaly, Cork and countless other counties over the years. Donegal has a very good team at the moment but there no Dublin or Kerry. On Sunday it's 15 men against 15 anything can happen. Cavan are there on merit they have beat every team in Ulster over the last two years apart from Tyrone and Donegal. Some of the posts that Donegal lads have put up are verging on that Cavan are only like the dirt on the Donegals boots."
The thing is, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If we play down our chances we'd be accused of disingenuous posting, whereas if we're honest and convey our genuine thoughts on the game we're accused of arrogance. Every county has supporters that lose the run of themselves and lose perspective.

It's true that we are in a period of dominance in Ulster that we haven't fully translated to national success. One All Ireland, perhaps we should have had another. But one point I'd disagree with you on is that we'll regress terribly at some stage soon. The structures that we have put in place this past decade mean that our future is in good hands.

For years everything about Donegal GAA was ad-hoc and badly organized. Sure, we produced good players but everything was done off the cuff. Nowadays, we have a brand new GAA centre of excellence. There is a clear pathway and structure for our talented players from u-15 all the way to senior. Everything from S&C, nutrition, mental health well-being and coaching is catered for. Obviously players as great as Michael Murphy don't come around that often, but the future talent that does emerge will have everything they need to prosper.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7110 - 19/11/2020 10:22:35    2311322

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Replying To Updlocal:  "I have never posted on hoganstand and I haven't got anything to do with Cavan but the way some of the Donegal posters are going on especially Tir Conaill and that lad under the Yankee name, you would swear that Donegal are traditional powerhouses of football. Ye have two all Ireland and not a whole pile of Ulster's. Enjoy it while it lasts ye will go back to being minnows at some stage, just like Cavan, like ourselves, Offaly, Cork and countless other counties over the years. Donegal has a very good team at the moment but there no Dublin or Kerry. On Sunday it's 15 men against 15 anything can happen. Cavan are there on merit they have beat every team in Ulster over the last two years apart from Tyrone and Donegal. Some of the posts that Donegal lads have put up are verging on that Cavan are only like the dirt on the Donegals boots."
Why would you decide to post in relation to Donegal and the couple of posters you mentioned whom are certainly in the minority. There is certainly a very anti Donegal vibe off that post above that goes beyond your issue with the two posters you mentioned. I am biased of course but I think the majority of the Donegal posters here are some of the most insightful, knowledgeable and respectful on here and I think most would back me up on that. Donegal have actually had very good teams for a very long time now. Unfortunately alot of those teams reached nowhere near their potential for one reason or another including belief, discipline and the old championship format. Maybe you're right and Donegal will drop back which would be a worry when the time comes when Michael Murphy calls it a day. However I don't see that happening for a few years yet plus in all likelihood he will be involved in some capacity when he does retire which will ensure standards remain high. Actually Donegal is traditionally a football county with high playing numbers and have underachieved both in Ulster and nationally. I wouldn't be guaranteeing they will fall back anytime soon now the culture and mindset is different to the past.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2480 - 19/11/2020 10:26:18    2311328

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "No disrespect you say, but then are completely disrespectful. You seriously think you're winning by 15+ points? I really do hope your team is thinking the same way too, as that's how you'll be caught out. Cavan are a decent team, and have learned a lot last few years, including from yourselves in the final last year. Ye got no challenge in the semi from Armagh, you didn't need to get to any big levels there. Easy to motor when they don't even lay a glove on you. This is a final, and against a team that doesn't know when to die, and it won't be as easy as you think."
I don't think therock has being disrespectful at all within what he said actually. He just gave a guess at what he thinks the score will be. I doubt any of us would get that correct anyways. He can give his opinion on the score but just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he is being disrespectful. Only till Sunday evening will we truly know and if he is wrong I am sure he will be reminded and take in good grace. For what its worth I can see Donegal getting goals based on all of Cavan's games so far.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2480 - 19/11/2020 10:34:18    2311336

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Replying To Updlocal:  "I have never posted on hoganstand and I haven't got anything to do with Cavan but the way some of the Donegal posters are going on especially Tir Conaill and that lad under the Yankee name, you would swear that Donegal are traditional powerhouses of football. Ye have two all Ireland and not a whole pile of Ulster's. Enjoy it while it lasts ye will go back to being minnows at some stage, just like Cavan, like ourselves, Offaly, Cork and countless other counties over the years. Donegal has a very good team at the moment but there no Dublin or Kerry. On Sunday it's 15 men against 15 anything can happen. Cavan are there on merit they have beat every team in Ulster over the last two years apart from Tyrone and Donegal. Some of the posts that Donegal lads have put up are verging on that Cavan are only like the dirt on the Donegals boots."
There are eejits in every county unfortunately. Personally because we don't have all that many Ulster's I savour every one and am always nervous going in to a final. We have been caught before when we've been favourites, we've been beat out the gate when going to a final with hope and optimism as underdogs, we've lost tight battles in horrible conditions and won a couple comfortably enough. We probably don't have as many Ulsters as our talent warranted from over the years. Before the current period of success, our best sides seemed to run in to other great sides regularly - our first breakthrough team came at the same time as the supreme Down side in the 60s which delayed our first Ulster til 1972, I think we were knocked out of Ulster by that Down team in something like 5 out of 8 years. We also got beat a couple of times by a very good Cavan side in those years. And then our great team of the 80s and early 90s only having 3 Ulsters in that period is scant return for the talent they had, but Ulster was very very very competitive in those days.

Anyway as I have said there is plenty of talent in this Cavan side, I think we will win and we *should* win as the squad seem very focussed. I think Declan Bonner being the manager is an advantage in terms of keeping the focus of what Ulster means to the county, it's easy if you're only growing up with Donegal football recently to think that this is the norm when it definitely isn't. But we look physically very strong, with great pace, a great kickout, our bench is contributing a lot and the spread of scores has been great with very little reliance on Murphy or even McHugh (though I think Ryan has had two excellent games in terms of getting on the ball).

However a final is a final and Cavan won't lie down that's for sure. Been mentioned a few times as well that we have not been able to mark Gearoid McKiernan any time we have met recently and with his current form that is very dangerous for us. It is also a loss not having McMenamin in the backs, he is without a doubt our best defender now (unbelievable development from him in the past couple of years). It's not set in stone and Cavan will take great heart from their comebacks against Monaghan and Down. However I think it's fair to say we should win the match, I hope that doesn't come off as arrogant.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1162 - 19/11/2020 10:48:34    2311340

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Replying To s goldrick:  "hey, whoever you are you can shut the front door with those racist comments."
Are the people of Cavan a distinct race from the rest of Ireland?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1136 - 19/11/2020 11:07:19    2311346

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "There are eejits in every county unfortunately. Personally because we don't have all that many Ulster's I savour every one and am always nervous going in to a final. We have been caught before when we've been favourites, we've been beat out the gate when going to a final with hope and optimism as underdogs, we've lost tight battles in horrible conditions and won a couple comfortably enough. We probably don't have as many Ulsters as our talent warranted from over the years. Before the current period of success, our best sides seemed to run in to other great sides regularly - our first breakthrough team came at the same time as the supreme Down side in the 60s which delayed our first Ulster til 1972, I think we were knocked out of Ulster by that Down team in something like 5 out of 8 years. We also got beat a couple of times by a very good Cavan side in those years. And then our great team of the 80s and early 90s only having 3 Ulsters in that period is scant return for the talent they had, but Ulster was very very very competitive in those days.

Anyway as I have said there is plenty of talent in this Cavan side, I think we will win and we *should* win as the squad seem very focussed. I think Declan Bonner being the manager is an advantage in terms of keeping the focus of what Ulster means to the county, it's easy if you're only growing up with Donegal football recently to think that this is the norm when it definitely isn't. But we look physically very strong, with great pace, a great kickout, our bench is contributing a lot and the spread of scores has been great with very little reliance on Murphy or even McHugh (though I think Ryan has had two excellent games in terms of getting on the ball).

However a final is a final and Cavan won't lie down that's for sure. Been mentioned a few times as well that we have not been able to mark Gearoid McKiernan any time we have met recently and with his current form that is very dangerous for us. It is also a loss not having McMenamin in the backs, he is without a doubt our best defender now (unbelievable development from him in the past couple of years). It's not set in stone and Cavan will take great heart from their comebacks against Monaghan and Down. However I think it's fair to say we should win the match, I hope that doesn't come off as arrogant."
Good man Joe, my experience of donegal fans is always that they are good eggs, great sports and appreciative of any success that comes their way.
Its not cocky to say you expect donegal to win, thats what everybody expects and bookies rarely are too far off the mark.

The fact is donegal seem to have a stronger squad than they had last year whereas cavan undoubtedly have been weakened personnel wise (McVeety and Mackey were key players for us) so cavan have probably exceeded expectations in getting back to an ulster final.

Where cavan do seem to have gained on last year is the team spirit and body language is much better, more leaders developing across the team now taking the pressure off gearoid, for the 1st time in years we have been enjoying aerial dominance in midfield (though Donegal will easily match us there), also a few talented ut unpredictable players like t galligan seem to finally be coming of age.

Ultimately donegal just have 2 many ways to hurt us and too much firepower,i expect a better cavan showing than last year when the players froze but i still expect donegal to prevail by 7 or 8 points

HuddHastings (Longford) - Posts: 80 - 19/11/2020 11:56:41    2311362

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Replying To s goldrick:  "hey, whoever you are you can shut the front door with those racist comments."
Racism is an extremely serious matter. Trivial accusations of racism undermines the suffering of genuine victims and reflects very poorly on those who make such accusations.
Please explain how the comment was racist or withdraw the accusation.

themaddog (Wicklow) - Posts: 79 - 19/11/2020 12:30:58    2311375

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Replying To Updlocal:  "I have never posted on hoganstand and I haven't got anything to do with Cavan but the way some of the Donegal posters are going on especially Tir Conaill and that lad under the Yankee name, you would swear that Donegal are traditional powerhouses of football. Ye have two all Ireland and not a whole pile of Ulster's. Enjoy it while it lasts ye will go back to being minnows at some stage, just like Cavan, like ourselves, Offaly, Cork and countless other counties over the years. Donegal has a very good team at the moment but there no Dublin or Kerry. On Sunday it's 15 men against 15 anything can happen. Cavan are there on merit they have beat every team in Ulster over the last two years apart from Tyrone and Donegal. Some of the posts that Donegal lads have put up are verging on that Cavan are only like the dirt on the Donegals boots."
Don't think so.

I think you might be right that some posters are confident going into the game on Sunday. Would you prefer if we were like Kerry before a game talking down their team and up their opposition? I would feel confident going into the game on Sunday, but nothing written here will matter a jot to the preparation of either side so there's that out of the way.

Re donegal being a power house in the GAA world, I totally agree with you. If you go back beyond this decade, we were in the poor seats in Ulster, 2nd or 3rd worst team in it by number of titles won. But if you audit the last 10 years, the record speaks for itself.

Re slipping back to the level that Meath has slipped since 1999, I think that we might. nothing is impossible. But the county board are not complacent. There is massive interest here in GAA now. We used to be a soccer mad county and now it is more GAA than anything else. So who knows. We could drop backwards next year. But for 20 odd years? Thats unlikely.

I wouldn't view Cavan as being dirt in our boots at all. A few times in the last decade, they sent our u21s home with empty pockets and deservedly so. They are a proud footballing county and deserve a good bit of respect. That's the bottom line.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 19/11/2020 12:36:13    2311376

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