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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "The elbow to Paudie Clifford is not commonplace, 1 or the worst incidents I've seen in a match in a long time."
Coming from Wexford thats a joke, or do you just not attend games in Wexford?

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 295 - 16/01/2023 21:03:06    2452783

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Open to correction but Fossa are 17th in the ladder in Kerry, that's an intermediate team in reality, Galbally who were in the Intermediate final are 17th on the Tyrone ladder, yesterday was the 1st competitive game Fossa had since the Kerry County Junior Final, Austin Stacks who were in the Munster senior final this time last year are intermediate next year you can already mark them down as hot All ireland favourites. On Cork think there was a restructure of their grades which led to the odd situation with Ballygiblin."
I suppose one could say they are now. The reality is that Fossa won the junior championship from division 4.They came up from div 5 and are now division 3 in Kerry. So at the start of the junior championship they would nt have been in the top 24 teams in Kerry.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3894 - 16/01/2023 21:22:47    2452786

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Replying To ITSCHOLAR:  "Firstly congrats to both Fossa and Rathmore on there wins and commiserations to both losers who fought hard to the end. Although the dig on Paudie Clifford was disgraceful and hopefully that thug is not allowed on a pitch for a long time.
Personally think one thing been overlooked by a number of people regarding structures and kerry taken advantage etc etc when you look at how counties are split up in Ireland very few sports in the world where you can only really play with where you come from both club and county wise.
Club wise how many hurlers / footballers over the years have not played highest level simply because of where they came from not because they weren't good enough.
Personally admire the structure of kerry / Cork where even a player from small junior team can play senior football and win a championship. Understand this gives them an advantage outside of Kerry but if we look at it another way just because they win kerry doesn't mean automatically win the all ireland it is up to the individual players and teams to keep training and playing and winning if anything extra pressure when they comes out of these counties."
Doesn't mean kerry club teams will automatically win the all Ireland but if you look at the stats they are hoovering up a high percentage of them. Needs addressing.

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 639 - 17/01/2023 09:04:08    2452790

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Did you actually read my post? I literally said Kerry shouldn't change for anybody else and should do what suits them best. There's no criticism of Kerry at all, just acknowledging that their junior and inter clubs do have a decent advantage over other clubs from other counties.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1606 - 16/01/2023 14:52:11
I did.. and?
Their clubs more have an advantage for many other reasons.

Ultimately you cant have the same structure in every county. You cant have a standard nationally because its not possible."
And, you quoted my reply saying, "You can't look for just Kerry to change without anyone else making any changes."
When I literally said Kerry shouldn't change at all in all of my posts. You seem to be putting words in my mouth and arguing a point I didn't even make.
These were my points:
1. Every county board should run their championships as they see fit, for the benefit of their county.
2. Kerry's very small championships of only 8 senior clubs and 8 intermediate clubs, gives their junior and intermediate clubs a good advantage in All-Ireland competition, when compared to other top football counties. Their representatives are generally much higher ranked in their own county than their opposition in most cases.
3. This is the way system is and I don't believe there should be any interference from outside the counties.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2306 - 17/01/2023 10:11:36    2452804

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Being 17th on the ladder isnt intermediate in reality because all counties are not the same."
In a football county like Kerry it would, I'd be fairly certain there the only county with all ireland aspirations in either code with only 8 senior clubs.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 17/01/2023 10:43:42    2452808

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Replying To expe:  "Fossa are 25th, only senior has 8 clubs, rest have 16.

Set up is as below:

Senior - 8 + 8 divisions
Intermediate - 16
Junior Premier - 16
Junior - 16

Below that there's the Novice Championship which is made up of the clubs that go out in the groups of the Junior Championship, plus Tuosist and Clounmacon who didn't field teams in the rest of the championship last year.

Not sure where the figure of 64 clubs has come from, there's only 56 that enter the championship, plus the two above. The county board website has 70 clubs on it, but that includes Valentia who haven't got the numbers to field a senior team at the moment, Sneem and Derrynane are on there separately but play together and the other 10 are hurling clubs. There's also Knockanure who aren't listed on there but they only play in North Kerry competitions.

The most effective solution is the one proposed in this thread to increase the number of senior clubs to 10, which would allow Tuosist and Clounmacon to enter the Junior Championship to balance the numbers there but Croke Park won't allow it because of the 16 team limit in the Senior Championship."
Ah perfect thanks for that, the intermediate championship is certainly weighted in the favour of the Kerry clubs, as I said I'd make Austin Stacks hot favorites already for next years AI title.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 17/01/2023 10:46:01    2452809

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Replying To seamusorinn:  "Coming from Wexford thats a joke, or do you just not attend games in Wexford?"
Put your trolling energy somewhere else...

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 17/01/2023 10:49:53    2452810

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Replying To benched:  "Does the fact that the team ranked 33rd in Tyrone gave Fossa ranked 17 in Kerry (some have said this I wouldn't be exactly sure where they rank) such a close game not indicate that the standard or at least depth of the club game is as good if not higher in some other counties? At this stage I'm thinking some posters are just being obtuse and refusing to recognise that there is an issue with the grading for the intermediate and junior and for the competitions to achieve what they were meant to achieve some sort of regulation is needed. This, for the sake of those trying to deflect from this reality has nothing to do with Cliffords or anyone else playing for their own club, discipline issues within any game or county nor does it need to lead to changes in how Kerry run their own club championships - just who gets to represent them in the as "intermediate" & "junior" level teams."
Fossa qualified for this cpmpetition from division 4 in Kerry and so were outside the top 24 in Kerry.They are now promoted to division 3 and will play there this year and so are now in the top 24 in the county.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3894 - 17/01/2023 12:00:17    2452826

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How could they try ranking the level of teams in separate county intermediate and junior championships? Wouldn't be easy to do, maybe rank them by that county's previous record in All Ireland Junior and Intermediate club championship a minimum number of county players? Not sure if a clubs second or third team is eligible? An intermediate county winner may have been senior for ten years, got relegated then back to their consistent level, much stronger than other county intermediate champions. In case where they think a team is much stronger than the other junior or senior county champion teams then go down the level in the county, to lower intermediate or junior to represent the county. That'd be very hash on county champions not allowing them go further that year. There's always going to be stronger teams at all levels. Probably a waste of time and effort trying to make it a more even competition.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7936 - 17/01/2023 12:02:55    2452827

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Limerick last year were a disgrace, club brawls, county brawls and brawls in pubs. Thuggery at it's best."
Dear kettle.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2296 - 17/01/2023 13:20:25    2452848

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I'll ask people with more knowledge than me,how will fossa get on in the inteediate championship in 2023 in Kerry?from what I've seen think they will find it very hard in the competition..on the Tyrone club scene,there are 16 senior teams,seriously how many of the clubs can have vision of winning the senior??please don't say all 16..also am I right in saying Sean Cavanagh suffered a very serious assault in a club game in last 2 years..I don't remember any suspension being handed out,could be wrong..tyrone have been involved in a lot of the incidents at inter county and club level in recent years..is it because a lot have chips on their shoulders??it always seems to be porous maybe take responsibility for their own actions..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2504 - 17/01/2023 14:01:33    2452857

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Watched the game in a pub in Dungannon last Sunday and everyone to a man was disgusted with the elbow tackle. They were equally disgusted with the dangerous neck challenge on the Stewartstown player. I thought it was a very good game until the 55th minute, the carry on at the end spoiled it for me. By the way congratulations Fossa, deserving winners.

tireoghainabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 390 - 17/01/2023 14:07:01    2452859

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Being 17th on the ladder isnt intermediate in reality because all counties are not the same."
Strange for me to actually agree with you.

How can the playing feild be "levelled" when some counties have more clubs than others?

People saying the Cork Junior champions are whatever "rank" compared to Kerry. Obviously they're going to be when Cork has almost 200 more clubs than Kerry.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1598 - 17/01/2023 14:19:27    2452862

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I'll ask people with more knowledge than me,how will fossa get on in the inteediate championship in 2023 in Kerry?from what I've seen think they will find it very hard in the competition..on the Tyrone club scene,there are 16 senior teams,seriously how many of the clubs can have vision of winning the senior??please don't say all 16..also am I right in saying Sean Cavanagh suffered a very serious assault in a club game in last 2 years..I don't remember any suspension being handed out,could be wrong..tyrone have been involved in a lot of the incidents at inter county and club level in recent years..is it because a lot have chips on their shoulders??it always seems to be porous maybe take responsibility for their own actions.."
8 different winners last 10 years, nobody retained the tittle since 04-05 so I'd say most go in with the belief that with a small bit of luck here and there they are in with a chance of winning it. Definitely more teams with a chance of winning it than the inter-county senior championship.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 17/01/2023 14:19:32    2452863

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I'll ask people with more knowledge than me,how will fossa get on in the inteediate championship in 2023 in Kerry?from what I've seen think they will find it very hard in the competition..on the Tyrone club scene,there are 16 senior teams,seriously how many of the clubs can have vision of winning the senior??please don't say all 16..also am I right in saying Sean Cavanagh suffered a very serious assault in a club game in last 2 years..I don't remember any suspension being handed out,could be wrong..tyrone have been involved in a lot of the incidents at inter county and club level in recent years..is it because a lot have chips on their shoulders??it always seems to be porous maybe take responsibility for their own actions.."
Fossa will win some games at this level as the competition is very poor. You can remain at Intermediate level for years by winning a small number of games each year. I think relegation is the bottom team only each year. With two excellent forwards they will be OK but otherwise they are a junior calibre team.
Rathmore will find it more difficult at senior level as combined with nine other teams, including Fossa and the Cliffords, they managed to win the senior competition. Will be no match for the likes of the Crokes, Dingle, or Kerins O'Rahillys.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 17/01/2023 16:27:48    2452888

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Needs to be addressed for the integrity of the competition. We've had Dublin County team with all their advantages and now kerry clubs.
Why is it the two strongest counties get unfair advantages?

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 639 - 17/01/2023 19:13:47    2452911

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Replying To oneoff:  "Strange for me to actually agree with you.

How can the playing feild be "levelled" when some counties have more clubs than others?

People saying the Cork Junior champions are whatever "rank" compared to Kerry. Obviously they're going to be when Cork has almost 200 more clubs than Kerry."
Theres only 20 or so clubs in Leitrim. 30 are so in Roscommon,
How many of the clubs in Cork are single code and there is multiple clubs in same parish?
But yeah its impossible to compare all counties.

Id prefer in some of the larger counties to do what Kerry and Cork have done and have divisional/regional sides compete in senior as would help increase standards and competitiveness.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3746 - 17/01/2023 20:16:19    2452917

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Replying To tireoghainabu:  "Watched the game in a pub in Dungannon last Sunday and everyone to a man was disgusted with the elbow tackle. They were equally disgusted with the dangerous neck challenge on the Stewartstown player. I thought it was a very good game until the 55th minute, the carry on at the end spoiled it for me. By the way congratulations Fossa, deserving winners."
Well said! I don't know one person who defended the elbow from Coyle. You'd swear from reading the comments on here that the whole of the County was in on it and approved of it. 99.9% of Tyrone people would be disgusted by it.

And to say that such incidents are isolated to Tyrone teams. That's just lazy and inaccurate. Wasn't there an eye gouging incident a couple of years back in the Dublin Championship with Ballymun and Kilmacud?
And a worse incident in a hurling championship last year involving the crowd.

I dont mean to pick on Dublin gaa either because I know majority of Dubs would be disgusted by them actions. It's just two that came to mind.

My point is that these incidents, as terrible as they are, DO happen in every county, not just big bad Tyrone!

sam09 (Tyrone) - Posts: 339 - 18/01/2023 07:11:17    2452922

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Replying To sam09:  "Well said! I don't know one person who defended the elbow from Coyle. You'd swear from reading the comments on here that the whole of the County was in on it and approved of it. 99.9% of Tyrone people would be disgusted by it.

And to say that such incidents are isolated to Tyrone teams. That's just lazy and inaccurate. Wasn't there an eye gouging incident a couple of years back in the Dublin Championship with Ballymun and Kilmacud?
And a worse incident in a hurling championship last year involving the crowd.

I dont mean to pick on Dublin gaa either because I know majority of Dubs would be disgusted by them actions. It's just two that came to mind.

My point is that these incidents, as terrible as they are, DO happen in every county, not just big bad Tyrone!"
Tbf every Tyrone poster condemned the elbow to the face of Paudie Clifford. It was a horrendous act of thuggery carried out by one individual. Most of the game was played in good spirit. The last time Kerry played Tyrone in the championship in 2021 both Cliffords fell to the grass at different times suffering from severe cramp. The first player to help on both occasions was Niall Morgan in a great act of sportsmanship. 99%of us hate thuggery but it's wrong to tar all with the one brush. Like every county Tyrone have bad apples but the majority are decent.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3894 - 18/01/2023 14:50:13    2452973

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Replying To gahfan:  "Needs to be addressed for the integrity of the competition. We've had Dublin County team with all their advantages and now kerry clubs.
Why is it the two strongest counties get unfair advantages?"
Where is the unfair advantage?
Fossa were lucky to win on Sunday. Only for the contributions of the two Cliffords, (13 points between them), they would have been annihilated.
Should county players only be permitted to play at senior level and not with their parish team?
Rathmore won because of the county goalkeeper, playing at full-forward, scored 1-3 from play, and the contribution of their goalkeeper, playing in his first game in Croke Park since 1996, making him approximately 45 years of age.
Some unfair advantage here.
Give it a rest. You play what is before you and should never look for excuses.
I wonder if any of the opposing players are complaining? I doubt it.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 18/01/2023 18:59:47    2453021

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