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Could A Professional Hurling/Football League Survive In Ireland?

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Replying To Trump2020:  "If done right it could work. While Ireland would obviously be the center of Gaelic Games the vast majority of finances would come from outside Ireland. Of course the games would have to be very aggressively marketed outside Ireland. Example: Cycling's biggest event is the Tour De France but it's not just French cyclists and it's shown and marketed all over the world. As said before if you have a great product it would sell. And it's a lot better than a lot of the stuff that IS selling."
No work for a while and a lot of time for google! Australia's population in 1983 was 14 million it had a profesion afl and nrl league ( practicaly an indiginous sport) . The nrl was only played in only two states (14 teams) with a population af around 6 million the same as ireland ! afl was 90% one state with a population of 8 million. 100% against professional gaa , just dont see how everybody says it not affordable .

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 28/05/2020 21:33:23    2279415

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The success of Irish rugby in the professional era has been used to validate the idea of professionalism working in the GAA, I don't agree with this narrative. There are only five professional teams in the country , the 4 provinces and the national side which picks its players from the provinces. Irish rugby also got lucky in having the provinces in place and didn't have to do what the Welsh and Kiwis did in forming these regional teams which always looked kind of forced. Rugby also has the International component and can create revenue from that area with tours, international competitions etc.
Leaving hurling aside for a minute how a professional Gaelic football league would survive in a situation where the 32 counties would have to be considered would be hard to envision. Would Waterford, Leitrim or longford go 'pro' or would they amalgamate with some regional neighbors and form new teams? Its easy to argue the viability of Dublin or Kerry with their tradition and resources but they would be the exception rather than the rule and I doubt theres a appetite for a league with a few traditional powers and amalgamations interesting the masses. The GAA for all its faults is a very unique organization for its democratic and grassroots outlook, without demonizing big business that would change if professionalism arrived.

Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 209 - 29/05/2020 00:21:06    2279426

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Replying To Galway4ever:  "The success of Irish rugby in the professional era has been used to validate the idea of professionalism working in the GAA, I don't agree with this narrative. There are only five professional teams in the country , the 4 provinces and the national side which picks its players from the provinces. Irish rugby also got lucky in having the provinces in place and didn't have to do what the Welsh and Kiwis did in forming these regional teams which always looked kind of forced. Rugby also has the International component and can create revenue from that area with tours, international competitions etc.
Leaving hurling aside for a minute how a professional Gaelic football league would survive in a situation where the 32 counties would have to be considered would be hard to envision. Would Waterford, Leitrim or longford go 'pro' or would they amalgamate with some regional neighbors and form new teams? Its easy to argue the viability of Dublin or Kerry with their tradition and resources but they would be the exception rather than the rule and I doubt theres a appetite for a league with a few traditional powers and amalgamations interesting the masses. The GAA for all its faults is a very unique organization for its democratic and grassroots outlook, without demonizing big business that would change if professionalism arrived."
You need to go back and read previous posts as this was addressed quite early. The Professional League would be SEPARATE from the GAA and if done RIGHT could survive along with the GAA. You would NOT be bound to a county or even a province. It's worth your time to go back and read the previous posts as people brought up some great points as you too have done.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2119 - 29/05/2020 01:33:49    2279428

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Replying To Galway4ever:  "The success of Irish rugby in the professional era has been used to validate the idea of professionalism working in the GAA, I don't agree with this narrative. There are only five professional teams in the country , the 4 provinces and the national side which picks its players from the provinces. Irish rugby also got lucky in having the provinces in place and didn't have to do what the Welsh and Kiwis did in forming these regional teams which always looked kind of forced. Rugby also has the International component and can create revenue from that area with tours, international competitions etc.
Leaving hurling aside for a minute how a professional Gaelic football league would survive in a situation where the 32 counties would have to be considered would be hard to envision. Would Waterford, Leitrim or longford go 'pro' or would they amalgamate with some regional neighbors and form new teams? Its easy to argue the viability of Dublin or Kerry with their tradition and resources but they would be the exception rather than the rule and I doubt theres a appetite for a league with a few traditional powers and amalgamations interesting the masses. The GAA for all its faults is a very unique organization for its democratic and grassroots outlook, without demonizing big business that would change if professionalism arrived."
Quality post

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4213 - 29/05/2020 06:48:24    2279429

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people who advocate prefessionalism in the g a a are coming from a background of not having a clue what the gaa means to a community , we see where rugby is and that would be where clubs would be in the gaa . ask the majority of players and they do not want to be professional . but to some on these forums love of community means nothing

mickcunningham (Westmeath) - Posts: 1800 - 29/05/2020 08:23:26    2279431

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Replying To jfk21:  "No work for a while and a lot of time for google! Australia's population in 1983 was 14 million it had a profesion afl and nrl league ( practicaly an indiginous sport) . The nrl was only played in only two states (14 teams) with a population af around 6 million the same as ireland ! afl was 90% one state with a population of 8 million. 100% against professional gaa , just dont see how everybody says it not affordable ."
regarding Australia, they did not have the most powerful soccer league in the world on their doorstop. Sadly English and Scottish football draw an awful lot of sports spending out of Ireland. Buying shirts, Sky Subscriptions, going to games, going down the pub watching games.

Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 29/05/2020 09:16:16    2279432

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The GAA should resist any professional league.
1. The GAA is a great community organisation, bring in full professionalism at county level and you really risk changing the attitude of people who currently volunteer for the GAA.
2. The current county model could not support professionalism. Ireland could not support 32 professional county set-ups (actually more if you count hurling and football). Would players be allowed to play for any county they wanted?. You could end up turning the inter county championships into something like the league of Ireland.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1343 - 29/05/2020 09:46:48    2279434

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "The GAA should resist any professional league.
1. The GAA is a great community organisation, bring in full professionalism at county level and you really risk changing the attitude of people who currently volunteer for the GAA.
2. The current county model could not support professionalism. Ireland could not support 32 professional county set-ups (actually more if you count hurling and football). Would players be allowed to play for any county they wanted?. You could end up turning the inter county championships into something like the league of Ireland."
There is little evidence to show professionalism would change the volunteering habits of those involved in the sport at lower levels
You could see professionalism but it simply wouldnt be very high wages for smaller/weaker counties. Or in some counties you would have small core group of full professionals with any others semi pro/amateur receiving match fees for games they're involved in

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 29/05/2020 11:14:49    2279436

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Replying To jfk21:  "No work for a while and a lot of time for google! Australia's population in 1983 was 14 million it had a profesion afl and nrl league ( practicaly an indiginous sport) . The nrl was only played in only two states (14 teams) with a population af around 6 million the same as ireland ! afl was 90% one state with a population of 8 million. 100% against professional gaa , just dont see how everybody says it not affordable ."
It might be affordable but it would be a very different game. Eight or ten sides instead of 32. Probably with names of towns and cities to break the link with counties. You'd need a good contract with a TV channel and most of the teams would still need sugar daddies to prop them up.

I'd query some of your history. There was no NRL until 1998 and no team outside NSW until Brisbane Broncos joined up in 1988. Sydney Swans were operating before Brisbane Broncos. But most of all, I'd query comparisons to 1983 when the world was a very different place in terms of the commercialisation of sport. In 1983, there were very few full time sportsmen.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 29/05/2020 11:23:27    2279437

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Replying To Rosineri1:  "regarding Australia, they did not have the most powerful soccer league in the world on their doorstop. Sadly English and Scottish football draw an awful lot of sports spending out of Ireland. Buying shirts, Sky Subscriptions, going to games, going down the pub watching games."
True about the premier league thats a problem . Most of my friends and family that go to Dublin game have never being in a club ground , its the same in most counties . We now have club and county supporters only as it two separate groups. People are creatures of habit and will follow a 20 game season , beers meet up with friends and a social even as much as the game itself. The majority of hurling counties are already Cities or have large followings. Cork 500k Antrim 600k Dublin 1.5m Limrick 200k Galway 250k Wexford 150k tipp 150k Kilkenny will do ok ! Its a hypothetical question I think a 8 team hurling league is possible. With attendances of say only 5k( league of ireland attendances) paying 10 euro ×20 games thats 1million gate money. You can still have you knock out all ireland on top of this! Nrl is in two Oz states with 16 teams. Kilmarnock population 50k aberdeen 200k dundee 150k..great support per week.. Maybe im totaly wrong but it look very viable to me , again 100% against

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 29/05/2020 12:34:24    2279440

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Replying To jfk21:  "True about the premier league thats a problem . Most of my friends and family that go to Dublin game have never being in a club ground , its the same in most counties . We now have club and county supporters only as it two separate groups. People are creatures of habit and will follow a 20 game season , beers meet up with friends and a social even as much as the game itself. The majority of hurling counties are already Cities or have large followings. Cork 500k Antrim 600k Dublin 1.5m Limrick 200k Galway 250k Wexford 150k tipp 150k Kilkenny will do ok ! Its a hypothetical question I think a 8 team hurling league is possible. With attendances of say only 5k( league of ireland attendances) paying 10 euro ×20 games thats 1million gate money. You can still have you knock out all ireland on top of this! Nrl is in two Oz states with 16 teams. Kilmarnock population 50k aberdeen 200k dundee 150k..great support per week.. Maybe im totaly wrong but it look very viable to me , again 100% against"
The problem with viability looking at other sports is the arms race it sets off regards to wages so it may look viable to begin with but before long teams will run up huge debt and ruin the sport chasing global audiences and money. Both rugby codes are gone that way and it looks like are about to pay for it big time now and plenty other regional sport alienating the core fanbase for a bit of cash

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 29/05/2020 13:58:54    2279442

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "It might be affordable but it would be a very different game. Eight or ten sides instead of 32. Probably with names of towns and cities to break the link with counties. You'd need a good contract with a TV channel and most of the teams would still need sugar daddies to prop them up.

I'd query some of your history. There was no NRL until 1998 and no team outside NSW until Brisbane Broncos joined up in 1988. Sydney Swans were operating before Brisbane Broncos. But most of all, I'd query comparisons to 1983 when the world was a very different place in terms of the commercialisation of sport. In 1983, there were very few full time sportsmen."
My history was just a quick google of the the 6million population of the nrl states in 1983 . 14 team league and they wete paid from what i can see. . Afl was near a one city profesional sport for years . 300m plus in today money for croker park paid in full ,thats a lot of money in an organisation alone. I think a 20 game league season and a knock out cup would be possibly plausible. Im 100% agains professionalism and it can only happen from within the gaa. Nobody was making an argument for the possibility of profesionalism, i decided to make it poorly! Semi pro leagues have to be a runner if not professionalism? Maybe limiting county training to one night a week would be the best idea longterm. Try taking the heavy demands off the players backs before they have demand of their own.

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 29/05/2020 16:25:51    2279450

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Nobody is saying players will be getting rich from playing pro hurling or Gaelic and comparing them to most sports isnt right as its irrelevant.
You could start with a core group as full time pros and others then part time.
Rugby started pro in Ireland with players on very small wages and it built from there.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 29/05/2020 17:23:28    2279454

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Replying To jfk21:  "True about the premier league thats a problem . Most of my friends and family that go to Dublin game have never being in a club ground , its the same in most counties . We now have club and county supporters only as it two separate groups. People are creatures of habit and will follow a 20 game season , beers meet up with friends and a social even as much as the game itself. The majority of hurling counties are already Cities or have large followings. Cork 500k Antrim 600k Dublin 1.5m Limrick 200k Galway 250k Wexford 150k tipp 150k Kilkenny will do ok ! Its a hypothetical question I think a 8 team hurling league is possible. With attendances of say only 5k( league of ireland attendances) paying 10 euro ×20 games thats 1million gate money. You can still have you knock out all ireland on top of this! Nrl is in two Oz states with 16 teams. Kilmarnock population 50k aberdeen 200k dundee 150k..great support per week.. Maybe im totaly wrong but it look very viable to me , again 100% against"
In addition to Kilkenny, in hurling you could have a Carlow-Kilk blend, a Laois-Offaly-Kilk blend etc - use the abundance of Kilkenny talent to create some new teams - entertainment would rise from our already high standards. Do similar in football - Dubs, Wicklow-Dubs, Kerry, Clare-Kerry etc.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 29/05/2020 18:49:56    2279457

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Replying To Breezy:  "The problem with viability looking at other sports is the arms race it sets off regards to wages so it may look viable to begin with but before long teams will run up huge debt and ruin the sport chasing global audiences and money. Both rugby codes are gone that way and it looks like are about to pay for it big time now and plenty other regional sport alienating the core fanbase for a bit of cash"
The reason MLS has been more viable than the decades-old NASL, is that the former controls/centralises ownership.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 29/05/2020 18:53:24    2279458

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Replying To omahant:  "In addition to Kilkenny, in hurling you could have a Carlow-Kilk blend, a Laois-Offaly-Kilk blend etc - use the abundance of Kilkenny talent to create some new teams - entertainment would rise from our already high standards. Do similar in football - Dubs, Wicklow-Dubs, Kerry, Clare-Kerry etc."
Very good point but only if the bigger/stronger county doesnt totally overwhelm the smaller/weaker county and you end up with a second/third side from that strong county with no representation from weaker

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 29/05/2020 20:19:07    2279461

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Very good point but only if the bigger/stronger county doesnt totally overwhelm the smaller/weaker county and you end up with a second/third side from that strong county with no representation from weaker"
Also would the mixed teams have any support. I cant think of many made up pro sports teams that have been a success in europe in a long time and again going back to rugby just look at the pro clubs in Scotland and Wales.

Agree with the earlier comment about MLS and if the GAA went pro this is the only model I could ever see happen

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 29/05/2020 21:19:38    2279463

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Very good point but only if the bigger/stronger county doesnt totally overwhelm the smaller/weaker county and you end up with a second/third side from that strong county with no representation from weaker"
Profesionalism may or may not be possible at some time in the future. The argument got me thinking about how many player choose not to play inter county, because it so time consuming now. Is it the better educated playing intercounty now , teachers and better paid 9 to 5 jobs ? if factory workers, lower paid construction workers, taxi driver and farmers are missing out is that not elitist and discriminating. Maybe the increased county training regimes are declaring county representation only for a certain socioeconomic group..mindless rant ovet

jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 29/05/2020 21:41:20    2279465

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Very good point but only if the bigger/stronger county doesnt totally overwhelm the smaller/weaker county and you end up with a second/third side from that strong county with no representation from weaker"
This is not a new concept in GAA circles already. A couple of examples: Joe Canning played for LIT not some Galway University, St Flannans of Ennis is not just Clare Lads as they have plenty of Limerick lads on their teams, etc. The professional teams need not have place names in their title at all. Pure choice.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2119 - 29/05/2020 21:51:10    2279466

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Replying To omahant:  "In addition to Kilkenny, in hurling you could have a Carlow-Kilk blend, a Laois-Offaly-Kilk blend etc - use the abundance of Kilkenny talent to create some new teams - entertainment would rise from our already high standards. Do similar in football - Dubs, Wicklow-Dubs, Kerry, Clare-Kerry etc."
No, you couldn't do any of this. It will never be approved by the county boards. Clare and Kerry? Seriously, cop yourselves on.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 29/05/2020 21:55:08    2279468

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