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Replying To Trump2020: "You need to go back and read previous posts as this was addressed quite early. The Professional League would be SEPARATE from the GAA and if done RIGHT could survive along with the GAA. You would NOT be bound to a county or even a province. It's worth your time to go back and read the previous posts as people brought up some great points as you too have done." I did go back and read the previous posts as you suggested and as you said many good well thought out ideas and arguments were floated around. Without putting words into your mouth I think you are suggesting in order for it to work forming a break away professional league made up of maybe 8 to 10 newly formed teams based on some sort of a regional basis. It shouldn't be to difficult to figure out a way of running the competition but that's the easy part.
Here is where I'd see difficulties and challenges.
It wouldn't be GAA sanctioned, therefore no GAA training ground, pitch or facilities can be used. Where would the infrastructure be for such a league?
Paying 30 players €30k a year (X 10 clubs) would only be a fraction of the expense of operating teams, the business aspect would eat up way more money than that.
The sports tv market is already saturated and after an initial curiosity can't see any interest abroad for Gaelic football played in front of small crowds in some rugby or soccer stadium.
This break away league/organization would be akin to the rugby league breakaway from rugby union and would leave a lot of bitterness and rivalries which I don't think would benefit the people in wider Gaelic games circles as a whole.
I would like to see GAA players recognized and rewarded for their efforts and talents but it can be done in the current structures.
Trump2020 you seem convinced that a professional league would work without putting out any real ideas other than nit picking what other people have to say. I'm actually really interested in what you would specifically suggest. Please be specific as in the geography, structure, funding, management, ownership, marketing, financing etc
Really looking forward to what you have to say
Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 208 - 29/05/2020 22:00:15
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Replying To Galway4ever: "I did go back and read the previous posts as you suggested and as you said many good well thought out ideas and arguments were floated around. Without putting words into your mouth I think you are suggesting in order for it to work forming a break away professional league made up of maybe 8 to 10 newly formed teams based on some sort of a regional basis. It shouldn't be to difficult to figure out a way of running the competition but that's the easy part.
Here is where I'd see difficulties and challenges.
It wouldn't be GAA sanctioned, therefore no GAA training ground, pitch or facilities can be used. Where would the infrastructure be for such a league?
Paying 30 players €30k a year (X 10 clubs) would only be a fraction of the expense of operating teams, the business aspect would eat up way more money than that.
The sports tv market is already saturated and after an initial curiosity can't see any interest abroad for Gaelic football played in front of small crowds in some rugby or soccer stadium.
This break away league/organization would be akin to the rugby league breakaway from rugby union and would leave a lot of bitterness and rivalries which I don't think would benefit the people in wider Gaelic games circles as a whole.
I would like to see GAA players recognized and rewarded for their efforts and talents but it can be done in the current structures.
Trump2020 you seem convinced that a professional league would work without putting out any real ideas other than nit picking what other people have to say. I'm actually really interested in what you would specifically suggest. Please be specific as in the geography, structure, funding, management, ownership, marketing, financing etc
Really looking forward to what you have to say" 1. It could be separate from the GAA but does not have to be. They could both blossom almost like the NFL and College Football in the USA.
2. They could rent pitches and Stadiums off of the GAA so the GAA would get money it normally might not get. A previous example I gave was how often do Galway use Pearse Stadium? It's probably unused a lot. "Weaker counties" probably have a lot more down time than Galways pitches do. A nice source of income for the GAA that they normally wouldn't have.
3. Nobody would be obligated to play for their county or even in their province. They could be drafted out of school hence solving some potential unemployment problems for some.
4. The teams could be named for their sponsors. Guinness, SuperMacs, Pepsi, etc.
5. The sports TV Market will watch the best available product. If it's Hurling vs The Senior Golf Tour what would you pick?
6. Small crowds at events? No problem: LOWER the cost of attending matches and even free for children to build your future base and get most of the money from sponsors, TV deals, streaming deals, merchandise, etc.
7. If done right the vast majority of revenue could come from OUTSIDE Ireland but Ireland would of course be the central hub as THATS where all the players are.
*****This would not be EASY. It might fail as many leagues have such as the XFL, USFL, etc. This is all hypothetical and I have no Degree in economics, management, etc. Just pure speculation and chat from a bored guy.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 29/05/2020 22:33:24
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Replying To Breezy: "Also would the mixed teams have any support. I cant think of many made up pro sports teams that have been a success in europe in a long time and again going back to rugby just look at the pro clubs in Scotland and Wales.
Agree with the earlier comment about MLS and if the GAA went pro this is the only model I could ever see happen" No, they wouldn't. A merged Donegal/Tyrone/Derry team would be boycotted by all three counties.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 29/05/2020 22:43:15
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Replying To Trump2020: "1. It could be separate from the GAA but does not have to be. They could both blossom almost like the NFL and College Football in the USA.
2. They could rent pitches and Stadiums off of the GAA so the GAA would get money it normally might not get. A previous example I gave was how often do Galway use Pearse Stadium? It's probably unused a lot. "Weaker counties" probably have a lot more down time than Galways pitches do. A nice source of income for the GAA that they normally wouldn't have.
3. Nobody would be obligated to play for their county or even in their province. They could be drafted out of school hence solving some potential unemployment problems for some.
4. The teams could be named for their sponsors. Guinness, SuperMacs, Pepsi, etc.
5. The sports TV Market will watch the best available product. If it's Hurling vs The Senior Golf Tour what would you pick?
6. Small crowds at events? No problem: LOWER the cost of attending matches and even free for children to build your future base and get most of the money from sponsors, TV deals, streaming deals, merchandise, etc.
7. If done right the vast majority of revenue could come from OUTSIDE Ireland but Ireland would of course be the central hub as THATS where all the players are.
*****This would not be EASY. It might fail as many leagues have such as the XFL, USFL, etc. This is all hypothetical and I have no Degree in economics, management, etc. Just pure speculation and chat from a bored guy." Fair enough Trump2020, no more than the rest of us you'd like to get back to normality watching live games and having a few pints
Galway4ever (Galway) - Posts: 208 - 29/05/2020 23:10:00
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Replying To Trump2020: "1. It could be separate from the GAA but does not have to be. They could both blossom almost like the NFL and College Football in the USA.
2. They could rent pitches and Stadiums off of the GAA so the GAA would get money it normally might not get. A previous example I gave was how often do Galway use Pearse Stadium? It's probably unused a lot. "Weaker counties" probably have a lot more down time than Galways pitches do. A nice source of income for the GAA that they normally wouldn't have.
3. Nobody would be obligated to play for their county or even in their province. They could be drafted out of school hence solving some potential unemployment problems for some.
4. The teams could be named for their sponsors. Guinness, SuperMacs, Pepsi, etc.
5. The sports TV Market will watch the best available product. If it's Hurling vs The Senior Golf Tour what would you pick?
6. Small crowds at events? No problem: LOWER the cost of attending matches and even free for children to build your future base and get most of the money from sponsors, TV deals, streaming deals, merchandise, etc.
7. If done right the vast majority of revenue could come from OUTSIDE Ireland but Ireland would of course be the central hub as THATS where all the players are.
*****This would not be EASY. It might fail as many leagues have such as the XFL, USFL, etc. This is all hypothetical and I have no Degree in economics, management, etc. Just pure speculation and chat from a bored guy." 1. You didn't answer his question.
2. The GAA will not sanction the use of any pitches by a breakaway professional league because it goes against the ethos of the association. There is no demand for a professional league. All you have to do is listen to interviews with the top players who all talk about how important playing for their club and county is to them.
3. A professional league is not a solution for unemployment. Donegal wants permanent jobs so people stay in the county.
4. Naming teams after sponsors is a stupid idea. This isn't America. Even the sponsors over there keep their names off the team and limit it to stadiums.
5. The sports TV market has the Premier League, professional rugby, cricket, F1, etc. Putting sports behind paywalls actually leads to less people watching. Free to air channels don't have the capacity to air a professional league alongside the GAA and other sports.
6. So this new professional league will be loss making right from the start. Add in the lack of buy in from sponsors and the GAA.
7. The vast majority of revenue won't come from outside Ireland. Other countries already have their own sports which are long established and either have a global presence.
Can we actually focus on tackling the problems facing the GAA rather than blowing a load of money on a professional league?
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 29/05/2020 23:13:23
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Replying To Breezy: "Also would the mixed teams have any support. I cant think of many made up pro sports teams that have been a success in europe in a long time and again going back to rugby just look at the pro clubs in Scotland and Wales.
Agree with the earlier comment about MLS and if the GAA went pro this is the only model I could ever see happen" Mixed teams would get support at highest level if teams want to follow their players playing at top level.
The Welsh and Scots sides are not as well supported for a wide variety of reasons. Not because of sides joining. Ospreys are best of Welsh sides overall in pro era and they're neath and Swansea who are biggest of rivals.....
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 29/05/2020 23:14:08
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Replying To Trump2020: "1. It could be separate from the GAA but does not have to be. They could both blossom almost like the NFL and College Football in the USA.
2. They could rent pitches and Stadiums off of the GAA so the GAA would get money it normally might not get. A previous example I gave was how often do Galway use Pearse Stadium? It's probably unused a lot. "Weaker counties" probably have a lot more down time than Galways pitches do. A nice source of income for the GAA that they normally wouldn't have.
3. Nobody would be obligated to play for their county or even in their province. They could be drafted out of school hence solving some potential unemployment problems for some.
4. The teams could be named for their sponsors. Guinness, SuperMacs, Pepsi, etc.
5. The sports TV Market will watch the best available product. If it's Hurling vs The Senior Golf Tour what would you pick?
6. Small crowds at events? No problem: LOWER the cost of attending matches and even free for children to build your future base and get most of the money from sponsors, TV deals, streaming deals, merchandise, etc.
7. If done right the vast majority of revenue could come from OUTSIDE Ireland but Ireland would of course be the central hub as THATS where all the players are.
*****This would not be EASY. It might fail as many leagues have such as the XFL, USFL, etc. This is all hypothetical and I have no Degree in economics, management, etc. Just pure speculation and chat from a bored guy." You wouldnt have to name teams after sponsors. You could have players properly linked with different sponsors as partners locally. These could help pay players and players would act as brand ambassadors etc for that company..
You dont need to separate from official gaa organisation at all.
Losing a lot of the local ness of teams isnt a good thing.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 29/05/2020 23:17:30
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Replying To KillingFields: "Mixed teams would get support at highest level if teams want to follow their players playing at top level.
The Welsh and Scots sides are not as well supported for a wide variety of reasons. Not because of sides joining. Ospreys are best of Welsh sides overall in pro era and they're neath and Swansea who are biggest of rivals....." Big difference between that and a breakaway professional league which takes players from the counties and clubs.
Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 738 - 29/05/2020 23:53:38
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Replying To Trump2020: "1. It could be separate from the GAA but does not have to be. They could both blossom almost like the NFL and College Football in the USA.
2. They could rent pitches and Stadiums off of the GAA so the GAA would get money it normally might not get. A previous example I gave was how often do Galway use Pearse Stadium? It's probably unused a lot. "Weaker counties" probably have a lot more down time than Galways pitches do. A nice source of income for the GAA that they normally wouldn't have.
3. Nobody would be obligated to play for their county or even in their province. They could be drafted out of school hence solving some potential unemployment problems for some.
4. The teams could be named for their sponsors. Guinness, SuperMacs, Pepsi, etc.
5. The sports TV Market will watch the best available product. If it's Hurling vs The Senior Golf Tour what would you pick?
6. Small crowds at events? No problem: LOWER the cost of attending matches and even free for children to build your future base and get most of the money from sponsors, TV deals, streaming deals, merchandise, etc.
7. If done right the vast majority of revenue could come from OUTSIDE Ireland but Ireland would of course be the central hub as THATS where all the players are.
*****This would not be EASY. It might fail as many leagues have such as the XFL, USFL, etc. This is all hypothetical and I have no Degree in economics, management, etc. Just pure speculation and chat from a bored guy." Gaa revenue 2008 48 million , 2015 56million 2019 73 million.. with just the 26 million increase ,how much could you give to players , ? no reason why revenue could not top 100m soon as things stand. , i ! Naming rights to Croke park and other stadium a few pound . Let the fai use croke park and apply for championship league ,uefa cups , rent cork to munster when needed , salthill to connacht clones to ulster etc. The fAI are bust buy out their share of the aviva 29 million debt, a new 50 year tenant for croke park or cork its inter changable if fai support is low .a, just a few ideas to increase revenue..personally i think a 20 game league season for say 10 hurling team would generate 1.6million revenue per team ( 4k spectators 20 game is 80 thousand supporters per season multiply by just 10 euro is 1.6 million in revenue over 6 months ..3 month championship on top of this.. im bored not working , my figures are far from ridiculous and i have no education of any description ...im sure sombody at the top would come up with way better suggestion , total destruction of what everybody love yes , possible yes ...wanted hell no
jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 30/05/2020 00:00:06
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Replying To Galway4ever: "Fair enough Trump2020, no more than the rest of us you'd like to get back to normality watching live games and having a few pints" As long as you're buying! Ha ha ha.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 30/05/2020 00:50:38
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Replying To KillingFields: "You wouldnt have to name teams after sponsors. You could have players properly linked with different sponsors as partners locally. These could help pay players and players would act as brand ambassadors etc for that company..
You dont need to separate from official gaa organisation at all.
Losing a lot of the local ness of teams isnt a good thing." You're absolutely right. There's no ONE way to do this. Different scenarios would probably work. The Korean Baseball teams have Samsung and Kia, etc as Sponsors and in their actual NAMES. "Kia Tigers" and "Samsung Lions" are two of their teams. Just food for thought.
Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 2113 - 30/05/2020 01:29:31
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Everything is possible hypothetically. Reality isn't a dreamer.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 30/05/2020 08:31:31
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Replying To KillingFields: "Mixed teams would get support at highest level if teams want to follow their players playing at top level.
The Welsh and Scots sides are not as well supported for a wide variety of reasons. Not because of sides joining. Ospreys are best of Welsh sides overall in pro era and they're neath and Swansea who are biggest of rivals....." The very poor take up from supporters is more what I was talking about. I think a mix team of Carlow Laois and whoever team would quickly go the way of Celtic Warriors or Border Reivers
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 30/05/2020 08:42:51
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Replying To Breezy: "The very poor take up from supporters is more what I was talking about. I think a mix team of Carlow Laois and whoever team would quickly go the way of Celtic Warriors or Border Reivers" I'm not sure it would. These sides would be more competitive than on their own which alone would make them more viable to supporters
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 30/05/2020 10:02:31
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Replying To jfk21: "My history was just a quick google of the the 6million population of the nrl states in 1983 . 14 team league and they wete paid from what i can see. . Afl was near a one city profesional sport for years . 300m plus in today money for croker park paid in full ,thats a lot of money in an organisation alone. I think a 20 game league season and a knock out cup would be possibly plausible. Im 100% agains professionalism and it can only happen from within the gaa. Nobody was making an argument for the possibility of profesionalism, i decided to make it poorly! Semi pro leagues have to be a runner if not professionalism? Maybe limiting county training to one night a week would be the best idea longterm. Try taking the heavy demands off the players backs before they have demand of their own." Ach - I take your points. Players were paid in Australia in 1983 but we know they had day jobs by reading their autobiographies.
There's no great increase in playing standards from part time players. You do your day job, go to the gym, do two or three group training sessions and play on Sunday. Which is pretty much what the amateur player does.
As for Australia in 1983, what was there to do at a weekend except go to the footy, as they cvall it over there ? There was no competition for your time over there. No live sport, hardly anything on TV.
In Ireland today, you can watch wall to wall sport 24/7 without ever seeing a GAA match. The world's a different place.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 30/05/2020 11:22:10
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Replying To KillingFields: "I'm not sure it would. These sides would be more competitive than on their own which alone would make them more viable to supporters" It takes a long time to build support on just winning.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 30/05/2020 11:33:28
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Replying To lionofludesch: "Ach - I take your points. Players were paid in Australia in 1983 but we know they had day jobs by reading their autobiographies.
There's no great increase in playing standards from part time players. You do your day job, go to the gym, do two or three group training sessions and play on Sunday. Which is pretty much what the amateur player does.
As for Australia in 1983, what was there to do at a weekend except go to the footy, as they cvall it over there ? There was no competition for your time over there. No live sport, hardly anything on TV.
In Ireland today, you can watch wall to wall sport 24/7 without ever seeing a GAA match. The world's a different place." I live in Australia, and i did not own a tv for 3 years , your probably right ! Just out of curiosity , look at my a above post on gaa income growth. In your opinion how much money could be diverted to a players wages fund in millions ! Make do with old stadiums for the next 20 years ? If 250m was spend on croke park( fully paid for) a large amount of that figure is available going forward ? My post is a bit all over the place but come up with a figure yourself , if you have time.
jfk21 (Dublin) - Posts: 51 - 30/05/2020 12:57:23
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Replying To jfk21: "I live in Australia, and i did not own a tv for 3 years , your probably right ! Just out of curiosity , look at my a above post on gaa income growth. In your opinion how much money could be diverted to a players wages fund in millions ! Make do with old stadiums for the next 20 years ? If 250m was spend on croke park( fully paid for) a large amount of that figure is available going forward ? My post is a bit all over the place but come up with a figure yourself , if you have time." I've no idea what cash the GAA hold but I've no doubt it's not enough to fund wages for three or four hundred players minimum. You'd need significant new income streams.
TV ? Commercial partners ? We already have those. We'd just be moving the deckchairs around. It's not new money.
lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 475 - 30/05/2020 17:53:53
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Replying To lionofludesch: "I've no idea what cash the GAA hold but I've no doubt it's not enough to fund wages for three or four hundred players minimum. You'd need significant new income streams.
TV ? Commercial partners ? We already have those. We'd just be moving the deckchairs around. It's not new money." Commercial partners can be added. Commercial worth of gaa is not near its potential
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3494 - 30/05/2020 19:07:40
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Replying To KillingFields: "Commercial partners can be added. Commercial worth of gaa is not near its potential" The GAA is a big fish in a small pond. It's commercial value is pretty damn good.
You can talk all you want about additional this and that but that's delusional.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 30/05/2020 19:57:26
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