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Irish Rugby Must Look To GAA's Top Talent For A Brighter Future

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It is nothing to do with British anything is better. The gaa journalists always look too negatively while all too often rugby commentators are too positive. It is nothing more than that. Irfu dont have a lot of power or certainly GAA has as much. And fine Gael and fianna fail are not in anyway sponsors of rugby."
Some GAA fans have Paranoia

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 138 - 27/10/2019 21:46:32    2246183

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "There's only ten Tier 1 teams in rugby. The sport is very competitive considering the small pool of countries playing at a high level."
Similar to hurling funny enough.

But it's the efforts of rugby's top tiers to try grow the game is the issue. Even hurling has promotion to the top tier as opposed to 6 nations and GAA does have a voice for each participant also it took til the late 80s to have a world cup and 90s to allow promotion from junior to senior in AIL rugby also check the join dates for many nations including Australia to what is now called World Rugby and also look at the history of that organisation and you will see it was designed to keep people out for many years.

Modern rugby is a miracle considering how hard they tried to stop it from within and avoid the malaise insulur sports like cricket are now in.

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 27/10/2019 21:56:59    2246184

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Replying To Breezy:  "Similar to hurling funny enough.

But it's the efforts of rugby's top tiers to try grow the game is the issue. Even hurling has promotion to the top tier as opposed to 6 nations and GAA does have a voice for each participant also it took til the late 80s to have a world cup and 90s to allow promotion from junior to senior in AIL rugby also check the join dates for many nations including Australia to what is now called World Rugby and also look at the history of that organisation and you will see it was designed to keep people out for many years.

Modern rugby is a miracle considering how hard they tried to stop it from within and avoid the malaise insulur sports like cricket are now in."
There wasnt an AIL until the 90s. Clubs who were senior before that had provincial senior cups and played friendlies and maybe odd tournaments, leagues within their province.
There was no all Ireland league until the 1990-1991 season
The top tier sides have been trying grow game. They will try protect things in their self interest as international game 6 nations is so key to unions finances as it rugby championship but they realise they need to expand to grow and earn more....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 09:51:59    2246235

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There wasnt an AIL until the 90s. Clubs who were senior before that had provincial senior cups and played friendlies and maybe odd tournaments, leagues within their province.
There was no all Ireland league until the 1990-1991 season
The top tier sides have been trying grow game. They will try protect things in their self interest as international game 6 nations is so key to unions finances as it rugby championship but they realise they need to expand to grow and earn more...."
Sorry you are right I should have said Irish club rugby. The issue I was refering to was the absence of promotion between the junior and senior cups

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 28/10/2019 11:54:27    2246264

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Replying To bad.monkey:  "Nonsense - a quick look at the winners will tell you the soccer World Cup is between Brazil, Germany, Italy, Frznce and Spain every time. About the same as the rugby"
Would that be the same Germany who didn't get out of their group last time ? Would it be the same Italy who didn't even qualify for the tournament proper last time ? Same depth in competitiveness? Away with you !!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5126 - 28/10/2019 12:17:24    2246271

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There wasnt an AIL until the 90s. Clubs who were senior before that had provincial senior cups and played friendlies and maybe odd tournaments, leagues within their province.
There was no all Ireland league until the 1990-1991 season
The top tier sides have been trying grow game. They will try protect things in their self interest as international game 6 nations is so key to unions finances as it rugby championship but they realise they need to expand to grow and earn more...."
Top tier sides look after themselves . Everything is set up for them to get stronger at the expense of the weaker countries . Look at how the All Blacks and Australia pillage the islands . Look at the ridiculous residency rules . Grow the game my a**e .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5126 - 28/10/2019 12:22:52    2246273

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Replying To Cavan_Shambles:  "I do believe there is a double standard in the media when it comes to rugby coverage. Undoubtedly. For example, Martin Ó Neill was given ferocious criticism for his style with the soccer team, yet Joe Schmidt, is lauded and given a pat on the back.

It's the double standard that grates with most Irish people and that will ensure that we never become rugby country, despite what the D4 media want to believe."
This year's World Cup finally woke Irish people up about rugby in this country and it will only benefit the GAA. I've read crazy comments over the past number of years about it being the 'people's sport' and the GAA is in danger of being over run........

The IRFU are good marketers I'll give them that. There is only one period when the 8 tier 1 nations are at the same peak condition and that's world cup year. Every other nation use 3 of the 4 years between WC's as a transitional period except Ireland and we also ensure friendlies take place at times nations are at the end of their season.

The IRFU don't allow a four year cycle as they see it as an opportunity to ram rugby down the throats of Irish people. Their mantle is lets win 6 nations, Grand Slams and end of year friendlies in the years our competitors priority is prioritizing the 4 year cycle. That way D4 media can tell us all how successful the sport is in Ireland. Well the cat is out of the bag and it's one big farce.

Look at the Ireland's results in World cup year and look at the difference in teams Ireland beat two years ago. The only reason Irish rugby is successful is due to the 4 year cycle - there is a reason they struggle every WC year however the same process will start again in 2020. Other 6 nations teams will start looking at 2023 (O'Shea already recruited in England) but Ireland will keep everybody together and likely win the 6 nations so the IRFU can start their marketing again.

By the time January 2023 comes around Irish rugby will again flop - it's good news for the GAA as they've seen off the rugby challenge; thankfully the media have caught on to the IRFU policy and realised Irish rugby is barely of tier 1 standard. If it was they'd challenge in WC year when Tier 1 nations come out to play not just the years they're in transition.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 639 - 28/10/2019 13:18:22    2246280

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Replying To Breezy:  "Sorry you are right I should have said Irish club rugby. The issue I was refering to was the absence of promotion between the junior and senior cups"
There was still interchange between the grades as clubs could apply and become senior in period before AIL and round Robin was formalised.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 15:20:36    2246301

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Replying To Breezy:  "Sorry you are right I should have said Irish club rugby. The issue I was refering to was the absence of promotion between the junior and senior cups"
There was still interchange between the grades as clubs could apply and become senior in period before AIL and round Robin was formalised.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 15:20:36    2246302

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Top tier sides look after themselves . Everything is set up for them to get stronger at the expense of the weaker countries . Look at how the All Blacks and Australia pillage the islands . Look at the ridiculous residency rules . Grow the game my a**e ."
Greengrass your argument doesnt stand at all. There was more players in the fijian squad born and who grew up in New Zealand than other way round and same with other island nations.
And it's clear you dont watch rugby if you cant see the sport is growing. Everything isnt set up for strong sides to tskenadvantsge of others.
And the so called ridiculous residency rules have been extended to 5 so we will see less in future. You cant limit people based just on birth, with increased globalisation there has to be residency rulings in place

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 15:25:25    2246304

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Greengrass your argument doesnt stand at all. There was more players in the fijian squad born and who grew up in New Zealand than other way round and same with other island nations.
And it's clear you dont watch rugby if you cant see the sport is growing. Everything isnt set up for strong sides to tskenadvantsge of others.
And the so called ridiculous residency rules have been extended to 5 so we will see less in future. You cant limit people based just on birth, with increased globalisation there has to be residency rulings in place"
How on earth can you argue that Fiji having more NZ born players in their squad is some indicator that the sport is growing or that it's not set up to benefit Tier 1 most of all?

I've already said I quite like rugby but there's no doubt it's elitist in how it's set up. Fiji, Samoa etc., barely get a crack at any T1 nation between World Cups, how can they improve if they're never testing themselves against the best? No avenue for countries like Georgia to get into more competitive fixtures more regularly, even though rugby is already quite popular there and they could get to a decent level with more support in my opinion.

There's just absolutely zero argument that rugby isn't geared towards the top nations being the best they can be, let's be perfectly honest about it. And I think Parisse's comments after Italy v NZ was cancelled at this world cup rings true as well.

I don't really have any issue with the residency rule now that it's switched to 5 years either.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 997 - 28/10/2019 16:54:33    2246314

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Greengrass your argument doesnt stand at all. There was more players in the fijian squad born and who grew up in New Zealand than other way round and same with other island nations.
And it's clear you dont watch rugby if you cant see the sport is growing. Everything isnt set up for strong sides to tskenadvantsge of others.
And the so called ridiculous residency rules have been extended to 5 so we will see less in future. You cant limit people based just on birth, with increased globalisation there has to be residency rulings in place"
Have you read Ewan McKenna lately ? Less of your pompous b******t please . I do indeed watch rugby . I played it in my younger days . I attended internationals and I still try to make the December Champions Cup game in the Aviva. As I said read Ewan McKenna . Peruse his articles in relation to the percentage of players on the Irish, Leinster and Munster squads who went to fee paying schools . Do the same for the development squads . That'll open your eyes for you. Look at the limited test match opportunities for the weaker teams . New Zealand and Australia pillage the islands and have done so for decades . They take their best players . The residency rule favours the stronger nations because they are the countries who run the wealthy leagues . 5 years is no big deal . As for your point about ignoring your native country and playing for the country where you're making your living not even soccer for all it's corruption allows that.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5126 - 28/10/2019 17:03:02    2246315

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Replying To Breezy:  "Similar to hurling funny enough.

But it's the efforts of rugby's top tiers to try grow the game is the issue. Even hurling has promotion to the top tier as opposed to 6 nations and GAA does have a voice for each participant also it took til the late 80s to have a world cup and 90s to allow promotion from junior to senior in AIL rugby also check the join dates for many nations including Australia to what is now called World Rugby and also look at the history of that organisation and you will see it was designed to keep people out for many years.

Modern rugby is a miracle considering how hard they tried to stop it from within and avoid the malaise insulur sports like cricket are now in."
Cricket is huge. Mainly because India and Pakistan play it. These countries have nearly one billion people between them. Cricket is a success story in India.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1892 - 28/10/2019 18:58:18    2246335

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "How on earth can you argue that Fiji having more NZ born players in their squad is some indicator that the sport is growing or that it's not set up to benefit Tier 1 most of all?

I've already said I quite like rugby but there's no doubt it's elitist in how it's set up. Fiji, Samoa etc., barely get a crack at any T1 nation between World Cups, how can they improve if they're never testing themselves against the best? No avenue for countries like Georgia to get into more competitive fixtures more regularly, even though rugby is already quite popular there and they could get to a decent level with more support in my opinion.

There's just absolutely zero argument that rugby isn't geared towards the top nations being the best they can be, let's be perfectly honest about it. And I think Parisse's comments after Italy v NZ was cancelled at this world cup rings true as well.

I don't really have any issue with the residency rule now that it's switched to 5 years either."
I never said Fiji having a lot of New Zealand born players was about the game growing. I was countering thebfalse point madebthat New Zealand and Australia pillage the islands when it isnt true.
Fiji and Samoa get games between world cups but not enough. Hard when their unions struggle financially and hard to get games and lot of other things organised to get games to go ahead.
Georgia should be getting more games but again you have to look at the optics and Georgia is not wealthy country and losing Italy or someone else in favour of Georgia badly affects all the unions.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 19:01:12    2246336

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It is nothing to do with British anything is better. The gaa journalists always look too negatively while all too often rugby commentators are too positive. It is nothing more than that. Irfu dont have a lot of power or certainly GAA has as much. And fine Gael and fianna fail are not in anyway sponsors of rugby."
There is a Dáil and Seanad Rugby 15 XV. It went to Japan recently. Fine Gael senator Neale Richmond is the leader. There is plenty of F.G and F.F ers on board. There is no Irish Oireachtas GAA team to my knowledge or no Dáil and Seanad Soccer team either.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1892 - 28/10/2019 19:01:56    2246337

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Have you read Ewan McKenna lately ? Less of your pompous b******t please . I do indeed watch rugby . I played it in my younger days . I attended internationals and I still try to make the December Champions Cup game in the Aviva. As I said read Ewan McKenna . Peruse his articles in relation to the percentage of players on the Irish, Leinster and Munster squads who went to fee paying schools . Do the same for the development squads . That'll open your eyes for you. Look at the limited test match opportunities for the weaker teams . New Zealand and Australia pillage the islands and have done so for decades . They take their best players . The residency rule favours the stronger nations because they are the countries who run the wealthy leagues . 5 years is no big deal . As for your point about ignoring your native country and playing for the country where you're making your living not even soccer for all it's corruption allows that."
If you're going to try look down on me and call me pompous at least dont be putting spaces before your full stops and learn to spell properly
I do read ewan. But dont take much heed of a guy who is openly biased against rugby. Bitter against the sport. Trolls anyone who supports and follows rugby. Like his fellow troll miguel Delaney.
Many who do go to leinster squads or Munster from cork did go to private schools but that isnt indication of anything. These schools train more than kids playing in clubs or elsewhere simply. The kids in these schools train 3 times a week with 2 or 3 gym sessions. Others just cant compete with that.
Very risky to say corruption. Big words from someone who hasn't a notion.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 19:06:40    2246338

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Replying To KillingFields:  "There was still interchange between the grades as clubs could apply and become senior in period before AIL and round Robin was formalised."
The idea of "applying" was a joke. You had to ask the senior teams to vote you in which they never would cause it keep the best players coming to the senior teams.

Just ask the fine Thomond side of the late 80s/90s who could win all the junior cups and leagues they wanted and never went up despite applying. I heard from many a Limerick fan that it was because people were too snobby to have to drive down to Moyross.

The change in structure has helped alot as has the change to a new generation on the boards of alot of the clubs in Limerick over the last 5 years but most clubs still really struggling to turn the current boom in professional rugby fandom into numbers through the turnstiles much like in GAA clubs which is a pity cause it's a good day out

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 28/10/2019 19:15:53    2246340

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Replying To galwayford:  "Cricket is huge. Mainly because India and Pakistan play it. These countries have nearly one billion people between them. Cricket is a success story in India."
It's a success in a small few countries with large populations yes but the locked off "test nation" idea is bad for the game and serves no purpose from what I can see other than keeping teams down. GAA has its problems and it's elite but it never locks teams out of the top tier

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 28/10/2019 19:30:37    2246342

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Replying To Breezy:  "The idea of "applying" was a joke. You had to ask the senior teams to vote you in which they never would cause it keep the best players coming to the senior teams.

Just ask the fine Thomond side of the late 80s/90s who could win all the junior cups and leagues they wanted and never went up despite applying. I heard from many a Limerick fan that it was because people were too snobby to have to drive down to Moyross.

The change in structure has helped alot as has the change to a new generation on the boards of alot of the clubs in Limerick over the last 5 years but most clubs still really struggling to turn the current boom in professional rugby fandom into numbers through the turnstiles much like in GAA clubs which is a pity cause it's a good day out"
It was to an extent but there was no league competitions by and large across the country and no proper provincial junior club only competitions at the time either.
It was nothing to do with moyross and snobbishness considering where other clubs in city got players from played.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 20:12:27    2246344

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Replying To galwayford:  "There is a Dáil and Seanad Rugby 15 XV. It went to Japan recently. Fine Gael senator Neale Richmond is the leader. There is plenty of F.G and F.F ers on board. There is no Irish Oireachtas GAA team to my knowledge or no Dáil and Seanad Soccer team either."
He does indeed. Neale played club rugby with old wesley for years until recently if not still does play occasionally. They do field teams that play charity and friendly games. Who would this oireachtas gaa team play and you need there to be interest for soccer team to be created. And again who would they play as they dont play in a league and as above primarily play friendlies and charity games.
That such a team exists can not in any way prove anything bar that some tds and senators enjoy playing the odd game of social rugby together

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 28/10/2019 20:26:59    2246347

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