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Irish Rugby Must Look To GAA's Top Talent For A Brighter Future

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Replying To KillingFields:  "It was to an extent but there was no league competitions by and large across the country and no proper provincial junior club only competitions at the time either.
It was nothing to do with moyross and snobbishness considering where other clubs in city got players from played."
You make it sound like there was no competitions for junior clubs but there was plenty.Yes senior B teams could enter the junior cup but it was still the main tournament for junior teams but also the north Munster league, Arklow cup and in Limerick the Transfield. Can't see a single reason to deny a team senior after they "apply" other than snobbery or self interest

As for the Moyross thing I'm only quoting what Garryowen, Cresent and cookies (particularly surprised by them) fans told me themselves about playing Thomond

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 28/10/2019 21:36:29    2246364

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Replying To Breezy:  "You make it sound like there was no competitions for junior clubs but there was plenty.Yes senior B teams could enter the junior cup but it was still the main tournament for junior teams but also the north Munster league, Arklow cup and in Limerick the Transfield. Can't see a single reason to deny a team senior after they "apply" other than snobbery or self interest

As for the Moyross thing I'm only quoting what Garryowen, Cresent and cookies (particularly surprised by them) fans told me themselves about playing Thomond"
There wasnt really organised leagues on year to year basis. There were cups but application was best method considering the circumstances and way season was structured and how competitions were set up.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 30/10/2019 20:34:57    2246666

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Irish Rugby would be dead right to start attracting lads over to play rugby by offering scholarships and incentives to talented GAA players. The problem is the snobbishness inherent in some rugby circles that I have seen first hand having played rugby and Gaelic football. I remember hearing from rugby people before about how Tommy Walsh from Kerry wouldn't have the hands for rugby and I laughed uncontrollably!

Clubs like Shannon have been innovative in bringing in players from GAA backgrounds to play for them including David Moran's brother Brian and Sean Armstrong from Galway (Stephen Kelly already had plenty of rugby experience with Newcastlewest). Given that it is the only properly professional sport on the island it is a shame that Munster Rugby would prefer to import teenage South Africans rather than look at the talent that is on their doorstep.

macruiskeen (UK) - Posts: 35 - 31/10/2019 09:07:32    2246710

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Replying To macruiskeen:  "Irish Rugby would be dead right to start attracting lads over to play rugby by offering scholarships and incentives to talented GAA players. The problem is the snobbishness inherent in some rugby circles that I have seen first hand having played rugby and Gaelic football. I remember hearing from rugby people before about how Tommy Walsh from Kerry wouldn't have the hands for rugby and I laughed uncontrollably!

Clubs like Shannon have been innovative in bringing in players from GAA backgrounds to play for them including David Moran's brother Brian and Sean Armstrong from Galway (Stephen Kelly already had plenty of rugby experience with Newcastlewest). Given that it is the only properly professional sport on the island it is a shame that Munster Rugby would prefer to import teenage South Africans rather than look at the talent that is on their doorstep."
Football is just as important. There are some good clubs around. Galway Utd, Mervue, Limerick, Cork city, etc.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1892 - 31/10/2019 11:09:24    2246746

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Getting back to the point at hand I do see a future where Rugby starts taking more up and coming GAA stars, it's a given. The more the GAA obsesses with Dublin and others with funding etc the harder it has become for other counties to compete, its become impossible. Take a talented footballer outside the pale who ends up with a choice, Rugby with a multitiude of professional Clubs at home and abroad in which to make a living or play for their County who hasn't a hope of overcoming the out of control train the GAA have made in the form of Dublin!! Whats he going to do?

Oh I forgot, he now has a losers shield competition to look forward to, the Tommy Muprhy Cup 2nd edition, yep that's going to entice him!

The ironic thing is the more the GAA focusses on its elite, Super 8's, Tommy Murphy cup part ii (just get them out of the way approach) the more Rugby is going the opposite and spreading itself. Ive seen it first-hand myself. When I grew up and im only 40 not a kid in the parish played rugby with the towns team, we were a rural GAA club, out of our current adult team 4 chaps are finished with football and hurling picking Rugby and 2 of those players were county minors and u21's for us. I know the lads, tried numerous times to get them back but all their reasons for not returning were valid, I couldn't argue with them. A structured season for example, could organise holidays around games knowing when they were happening etc.

Ive nothing against Rugby I enjoy the game played it in college, actually found the training really beneficial for GAA training but lets be honest the GAA don't care less outside of a handful of counties, couldn't give a toss so rugby is giving them an option, I mean I keep seeing all this talk about Rugby being elitist when in fact the GAA could give them a lesson in looking after their elites

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 838 - 31/10/2019 13:32:37    2246792

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Replying To tearintom:  "Getting back to the point at hand I do see a future where Rugby starts taking more up and coming GAA stars, it's a given. The more the GAA obsesses with Dublin and others with funding etc the harder it has become for other counties to compete, its become impossible. Take a talented footballer outside the pale who ends up with a choice, Rugby with a multitiude of professional Clubs at home and abroad in which to make a living or play for their County who hasn't a hope of overcoming the out of control train the GAA have made in the form of Dublin!! Whats he going to do?

Oh I forgot, he now has a losers shield competition to look forward to, the Tommy Muprhy Cup 2nd edition, yep that's going to entice him!

The ironic thing is the more the GAA focusses on its elite, Super 8's, Tommy Murphy cup part ii (just get them out of the way approach) the more Rugby is going the opposite and spreading itself. Ive seen it first-hand myself. When I grew up and im only 40 not a kid in the parish played rugby with the towns team, we were a rural GAA club, out of our current adult team 4 chaps are finished with football and hurling picking Rugby and 2 of those players were county minors and u21's for us. I know the lads, tried numerous times to get them back but all their reasons for not returning were valid, I couldn't argue with them. A structured season for example, could organise holidays around games knowing when they were happening etc.

Ive nothing against Rugby I enjoy the game played it in college, actually found the training really beneficial for GAA training but lets be honest the GAA don't care less outside of a handful of counties, couldn't give a toss so rugby is giving them an option, I mean I keep seeing all this talk about Rugby being elitist when in fact the GAA could give them a lesson in looking after their elites"
If there is a choice between two players for a professional rugby contract, one of whom has been to a Leinster private school, played in the senior cup etc and a lad who has huge talent but has come from a GAA background I reckon mister senior cup will get it every time

prideofarigner (Roscommon) - Posts: 31 - 31/10/2019 14:56:44    2246818

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Replying To avonali:  "Jaysus for a fella that describes rugby as a 'foreign sport' you seem to know a lot about it!

What is D4 land?? Oh I get it, it is us Pale dwelling Dubs only who play rugby...This old smear is so tired and lazy,

why would us Dubs want some of our best sportsmen playing rugby???"
haha very well said, he knows an awful lot about that 'foreign' sport indeed!

Other notable mention for '"tanland" , a jibe I have often heard playing football and hurling with an english accent - Zzzz

I guess being from mayo you would see hurling as a foreign sport also ;-)

Miami305 (Galway) - Posts: 147 - 31/10/2019 16:10:29    2246840

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Replying To galwayford:  "There is a Dáil and Seanad Rugby 15 XV. It went to Japan recently. Fine Gael senator Neale Richmond is the leader. There is plenty of F.G and F.F ers on board. There is no Irish Oireachtas GAA team to my knowledge or no Dáil and Seanad Soccer team either."
No time for rugby; it's a minority sport, receives more publicity than it deserves due to the old boy/public school/D4 network, plus in N Ireland it's a unionist game. But in it's defence it's a game, like soccer, that you can play as you get older and less fit. In contrast gaelic football and hurling are impossible as you get on in years, and it's something the GAA should seriously look at, and consider adapting the rules to encourage.

befair (Down) - Posts: 190 - 31/10/2019 16:58:16    2246851

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Replying To prideofarigner:  "If there is a choice between two players for a professional rugby contract, one of whom has been to a Leinster private school, played in the senior cup etc and a lad who has huge talent but has come from a GAA background I reckon mister senior cup will get it every time"
But would that not be fair if there was only one contract? Give it to the guy who has tge rugby experience. The devil you know after all... I think the overall point, and much like with AFL, the scouts are hoping to find another few Moss Keane or Mick Galways.. They are not planning on replacing Johnny Sexton with David Clifford.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3758 - 31/10/2019 19:39:17    2246879

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Replying To macruiskeen:  "Irish Rugby would be dead right to start attracting lads over to play rugby by offering scholarships and incentives to talented GAA players. The problem is the snobbishness inherent in some rugby circles that I have seen first hand having played rugby and Gaelic football. I remember hearing from rugby people before about how Tommy Walsh from Kerry wouldn't have the hands for rugby and I laughed uncontrollably!

Clubs like Shannon have been innovative in bringing in players from GAA backgrounds to play for them including David Moran's brother Brian and Sean Armstrong from Galway (Stephen Kelly already had plenty of rugby experience with Newcastlewest). Given that it is the only properly professional sport on the island it is a shame that Munster Rugby would prefer to import teenage South Africans rather than look at the talent that is on their doorstep."
They dont need and wouldnt be offering scholarships over to rugby. Scholarships for what anyway?
Majority of clubs have used players who have came from gaa background or at least nearly all bar some Dublin clubs and Ulster clubs who wont.
Munster do look at talent on doorstep but as much has been due to south African influence as head coaches who brought those players to attention of academy coaches.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 31/10/2019 20:05:18    2246884

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Replying To macruiskeen:  "Irish Rugby would be dead right to start attracting lads over to play rugby by offering scholarships and incentives to talented GAA players. The problem is the snobbishness inherent in some rugby circles that I have seen first hand having played rugby and Gaelic football. I remember hearing from rugby people before about how Tommy Walsh from Kerry wouldn't have the hands for rugby and I laughed uncontrollably!

Clubs like Shannon have been innovative in bringing in players from GAA backgrounds to play for them including David Moran's brother Brian and Sean Armstrong from Galway (Stephen Kelly already had plenty of rugby experience with Newcastlewest). Given that it is the only properly professional sport on the island it is a shame that Munster Rugby would prefer to import teenage South Africans rather than look at the talent that is on their doorstep."
They dont need and wouldnt be offering scholarships over to rugby. Scholarships for what anyway?
Majority of clubs have used players who have came from gaa background or at least nearly all bar some Dublin clubs and Ulster clubs who wont.
Munster do look at talent on doorstep but as much has been due to south African influence as head coaches who brought those players to attention of academy coaches.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 31/10/2019 20:05:19    2246885

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Replying To prideofarigner:  "If there is a choice between two players for a professional rugby contract, one of whom has been to a Leinster private school, played in the senior cup etc and a lad who has huge talent but has come from a GAA background I reckon mister senior cup will get it every time"
Then you havent a clue. It isnt case at all and trevor Hogan from Nenagh. Former pro player and currently provincial talent coach for leinster would totally disagree with that and he is in his position to help identify and assist development of players outside of the main rugby schools

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 31/10/2019 20:08:38    2246886

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Replying To befair:  "No time for rugby; it's a minority sport, receives more publicity than it deserves due to the old boy/public school/D4 network, plus in N Ireland it's a unionist game. But in it's defence it's a game, like soccer, that you can play as you get older and less fit. In contrast gaelic football and hurling are impossible as you get on in years, and it's something the GAA should seriously look at, and consider adapting the rules to encourage."
Hahaha seriously you see club teams in GAA all the time at high enough levels with players in late 30s and into 40s and they're playing at latter stages of competition. You dont see that in rugby.
Rugby gets coverage it does because of popularity and backing of thousands and thousands of people across the country....
And every sport is a minority sport compared to the biggest of all sports.....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 31/10/2019 20:13:40    2246887

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Replying To befair:  "No time for rugby; it's a minority sport, receives more publicity than it deserves due to the old boy/public school/D4 network, plus in N Ireland it's a unionist game. But in it's defence it's a game, like soccer, that you can play as you get older and less fit. In contrast gaelic football and hurling are impossible as you get on in years, and it's something the GAA should seriously look at, and consider adapting the rules to encourage."
Hahaha seriously you see club teams in GAA all the time at high enough levels with players in late 30s and into 40s and they're playing at latter stages of competition. You dont see that in rugby.
Rugby gets coverage it does because of popularity and backing of thousands and thousands of people across the country....
And every sport is a minority sport compared to the biggest of all sports.....

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 1336 - 31/10/2019 20:13:40    2246888

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Mind-numbing stuff.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 31/10/2019 21:17:29    2246897

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Hahaha seriously you see club teams in GAA all the time at high enough levels with players in late 30s and into 40s and they're playing at latter stages of competition. You dont see that in rugby.
Rugby gets coverage it does because of popularity and backing of thousands and thousands of people across the country....
And every sport is a minority sport compared to the biggest of all sports....."
Also its much easier to promote a national team in the media as opposed to 32 individual counties a lot of casual fans don't pay much attention to teams outside their own in GAA

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1000 - 01/11/2019 19:53:51    2247067

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Replying To tearintom:  "Getting back to the point at hand I do see a future where Rugby starts taking more up and coming GAA stars, it's a given. The more the GAA obsesses with Dublin and others with funding etc the harder it has become for other counties to compete, its become impossible. Take a talented footballer outside the pale who ends up with a choice, Rugby with a multitiude of professional Clubs at home and abroad in which to make a living or play for their County who hasn't a hope of overcoming the out of control train the GAA have made in the form of Dublin!! Whats he going to do?

Oh I forgot, he now has a losers shield competition to look forward to, the Tommy Muprhy Cup 2nd edition, yep that's going to entice him!

The ironic thing is the more the GAA focusses on its elite, Super 8's, Tommy Murphy cup part ii (just get them out of the way approach) the more Rugby is going the opposite and spreading itself. Ive seen it first-hand myself. When I grew up and im only 40 not a kid in the parish played rugby with the towns team, we were a rural GAA club, out of our current adult team 4 chaps are finished with football and hurling picking Rugby and 2 of those players were county minors and u21's for us. I know the lads, tried numerous times to get them back but all their reasons for not returning were valid, I couldn't argue with them. A structured season for example, could organise holidays around games knowing when they were happening etc.

Ive nothing against Rugby I enjoy the game played it in college, actually found the training really beneficial for GAA training but lets be honest the GAA don't care less outside of a handful of counties, couldn't give a toss so rugby is giving them an option, I mean I keep seeing all this talk about Rugby being elitist when in fact the GAA could give them a lesson in looking after their elites"
Rugby may make token offers around the country to fit in with their aim of calling it the 'people's sport' However the class system is and always will be part of Rugby circles. Two talented underage sporting stars who choose rugby from different class systems will always have different outcomes. The teenager who attends a certain college, from a certain class system or in Ulster from a different politicial background will always have doors open in getting into elite squads. The other player can compete but will never make it to the top as doors remain closed.

Irish rugby has also shown itself to be a farce during this World Cup - we're playing tier 2 rugby and are nowhere near the top of tier 1 as rugby people like us to think. It's embarassing to think the Irish media told us Ireland would win the World Cup. In certain Irish communities rugby is popular but in no way will it ever be as popular as GAA sports and soccer.

The GAA has nothing to worry about when it comes to Rugby - it's become more popular of course but the class system remains and it's a minority sport. What I would say is it's time the media questioned it in the same way they do soccer and stop bombarbing people that Irish rugby is worldclass which it clearly isn't.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 639 - 02/11/2019 09:03:01    2247183

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Replying To tearintom:  "Getting back to the point at hand I do see a future where Rugby starts taking more up and coming GAA stars, it's a given. The more the GAA obsesses with Dublin and others with funding etc the harder it has become for other counties to compete, its become impossible. Take a talented footballer outside the pale who ends up with a choice, Rugby with a multitiude of professional Clubs at home and abroad in which to make a living or play for their County who hasn't a hope of overcoming the out of control train the GAA have made in the form of Dublin!! Whats he going to do?

Oh I forgot, he now has a losers shield competition to look forward to, the Tommy Muprhy Cup 2nd edition, yep that's going to entice him!

The ironic thing is the more the GAA focusses on its elite, Super 8's, Tommy Murphy cup part ii (just get them out of the way approach) the more Rugby is going the opposite and spreading itself. Ive seen it first-hand myself. When I grew up and im only 40 not a kid in the parish played rugby with the towns team, we were a rural GAA club, out of our current adult team 4 chaps are finished with football and hurling picking Rugby and 2 of those players were county minors and u21's for us. I know the lads, tried numerous times to get them back but all their reasons for not returning were valid, I couldn't argue with them. A structured season for example, could organise holidays around games knowing when they were happening etc.

Ive nothing against Rugby I enjoy the game played it in college, actually found the training really beneficial for GAA training but lets be honest the GAA don't care less outside of a handful of counties, couldn't give a toss so rugby is giving them an option, I mean I keep seeing all this talk about Rugby being elitist when in fact the GAA could give them a lesson in looking after their elites"
Very good post. While Rugby has to yet make inroads at adult playing level, one area it is making huge inroads is at participation of Primary school children. I have seen this first hand & many teachers & principals in Primary schools (many of whom are active with Cumann na mBunscoil) will tell you that the coaching provided by the IRFU in schools is way beyond the coaching provided by the GAA in terms of its programme, implementation & roll out. The kids love it. Your point is lost by the haters who can't see that many posting on this are from GAA backgrounds but totally frustrated by the direction of the current leadership & the apathy it shows to its membership outside of the elite Inter County scene. The dismissal a few years ago by the Association of an ERSI report on drop out rates across all sports, because it highlighted the exodus of players from 16 to adult level in GAA as being at the highest in any sport, shows that the ostrich with the head buried in the sand is how much interest they have. For the armchair scribes on here who just go to county matches or watch on TV, they have never being involved for decades like some, who see how hard it is now to run a club, raise the funds & try to retain players without any help from Croke Park who just gobble up the registration & affiliation fees & keep filling the fixtures calendar with more & more Inter County games with less time for clubs. The real indicator of how little they care is the way they dismiss completely the CPA despite its membership number being 10 times that of the GPA. All the talk is of Tier 2 at the moment, but there already is a Tier 2 in the Association, Tier 1 is Inter County & Croke Park, Tier 2 is the rest of the Association that makes up 98% of it. Just as with Irish politics I have witnessed many parents & players drop out over the decades & have a complete apathy towards the Association, all because of the way it is run. People don't opt for Rugby, they just drift to it & other activities looking for something with better structure. It's all very simple but there is no interest at leadership level to change anything, in fact the juggernaut that is Inter County is now out of control & the next step is coming very very soon, pay for play. A step that will lead to further exodus of volunteers on the ground.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1028 - 02/11/2019 11:01:57    2247199

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Having a million rugby players didn't seem to count for much for the Brits today, glad S.A. won

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1358 - 02/11/2019 17:39:06    2247246

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Replying To sam1884:  "Rugby may make token offers around the country to fit in with their aim of calling it the 'people's sport' However the class system is and always will be part of Rugby circles. Two talented underage sporting stars who choose rugby from different class systems will always have different outcomes. The teenager who attends a certain college, from a certain class system or in Ulster from a different politicial background will always have doors open in getting into elite squads. The other player can compete but will never make it to the top as doors remain closed.

Irish rugby has also shown itself to be a farce during this World Cup - we're playing tier 2 rugby and are nowhere near the top of tier 1 as rugby people like us to think. It's embarassing to think the Irish media told us Ireland would win the World Cup. In certain Irish communities rugby is popular but in no way will it ever be as popular as GAA sports and soccer.

The GAA has nothing to worry about when it comes to Rugby - it's become more popular of course but the class system remains and it's a minority sport. What I would say is it's time the media questioned it in the same way they do soccer and stop bombarbing people that Irish rugby is worldclass which it clearly isn't."
Id say hundreds of thousands of Unionist people on this small island would say the GAA is anything but all inclusive. Professional sport doesnt give a hoot about a persons backround or 'class' to use your term. The parachuting of South Africans into the Irish team is evidence of this. Professional sports are the ultimate leveller, it only matters what you do on the pitch. Even straight out of prison for terrible deeds, if you can do it on the pitch professional teams will sign you up.

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4436 - 02/11/2019 18:34:24    2247259

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