National Forum

Gaeltacht in All-Ireland semis

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Team that was second best team in Kerry senior league just behind Dr Crokes are in an All Ireland intermediate semi final.

How is this just?!

These intermediate and junior competitions lose all their meaning when senior teams float between championships trying to win an all-Ireland.!

After winning your provincial this could be the pinnacle of a players career and to be pitted against senior teams in an intermediate or junior all Ireland semifinal/ final just is not right.

For the sake of these competitions this should be looked at by HQ.

keepherlow (Tyrone) - Posts: 127 - 15/01/2018 22:54:05    2068601

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I think someone is looking for excuses before the game even throws-in on Sunday.

RoylerKing (Meath) - Posts: 809 - 15/01/2018 23:08:27    2068604

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Replying To keepherlow:  "Team that was second best team in Kerry senior league just behind Dr Crokes are in an All Ireland intermediate semi final.

How is this just?!

These intermediate and junior competitions lose all their meaning when senior teams float between championships trying to win an all-Ireland.!

After winning your provincial this could be the pinnacle of a players career and to be pitted against senior teams in an intermediate or junior all Ireland semifinal/ final just is not right.

For the sake of these competitions this should be looked at by HQ."
We go through this every year kid, in Kerry we have loads of competitions there is football going on here for 50 weeks of the year.
We have county league and county championship which are two different competitions and only cross over in the event that a divisional team win the county championship where the winner of the county league would represent Kerry in the Munster senior championship.

In Kerry being a division 1 team doesn't mean you're a senior team in the county championship you can only go senior if you win the intermediate championship. In our senior championship we have 8 clubs and 8 divisional sides which mean every player whether you play for a novice junior or intermediate club you get to play senior football which means no good players get over looked.
It's the way we've done things in Kerry for years and a long time before these competitions were thought up back in the naughties.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/01/2018 23:43:21    2068611

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "We go through this every year kid, in Kerry we have loads of competitions there is football going on here for 50 weeks of the year.
We have county league and county championship which are two different competitions and only cross over in the event that a divisional team win the county championship where the winner of the county league would represent Kerry in the Munster senior championship.

In Kerry being a division 1 team doesn't mean you're a senior team in the county championship you can only go senior if you win the intermediate championship. In our senior championship we have 8 clubs and 8 divisional sides which mean every player whether you play for a novice junior or intermediate club you get to play senior football which means no good players get over looked.
It's the way we've done things in Kerry for years and a long time before these competitions were thought up back in the naughties."
I envy that layout and more so i envy the players and club members that accept and buy into the system. every county should have a championship like that. Cavan tried it and it failed unfortunately.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 414 - 16/01/2018 09:58:27    2068634

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It's a by product of how Kerry structure their championships. It's no accident that so many Kerry teams have made it to the All-Ireland finals at Junior and intermediate level over the years.

In Dublin it is the opposite for example. Often the team representing Dublin in the Junior or Inter Leinster Champo could be the only the 4th or 5th best side from Dublin at that grade.

For what it is worth I think Kerry's structure is excellent to be fair.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13803 - 16/01/2018 10:18:17    2068641

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Replying To keepherlow:  "Team that was second best team in Kerry senior league just behind Dr Crokes are in an All Ireland intermediate semi final.

How is this just?!

These intermediate and junior competitions lose all their meaning when senior teams float between championships trying to win an all-Ireland.!

After winning your provincial this could be the pinnacle of a players career and to be pitted against senior teams in an intermediate or junior all Ireland semifinal/ final just is not right.

For the sake of these competitions this should be looked at by HQ."
There was a massive row on here last year about all of this, I suggest you go and find it. Any possible question or comment you might have would have been explained by posters familiar with our club competitions.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 16/01/2018 10:31:28    2068648

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Replying To theweanling:  "I envy that layout and more so i envy the players and club members that accept and buy into the system. every county should have a championship like that. Cavan tried it and it failed unfortunately."
Ya it's a good system that has served us well in fairness, we also have district championships ( as in north Kerry championship south Kerry championship east Kerry championship west Kerry championship and mi Kerry championship ) which are highly saught after by clubs and where it's pretty much all clubs in, and I'd say the hermit would agree that the north Kerry championship would be the hardest fought.
And you'd also have district league as well.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/01/2018 11:04:19    2068660

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Once upon a time in Mayo your league placing could determine your championship status. If you were high up in the league but you were junior you would be bumped up to intermediate. Rightly or wrongly those days are over. An Gaeltacht didn't drop down of there own choice it would have been down to a relegation playoff. They have earned the right to play senior again.

Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 660 - 16/01/2018 11:16:17    2068663

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Ya it's a good system that has served us well in fairness, we also have district championships ( as in north Kerry championship south Kerry championship east Kerry championship west Kerry championship and mi Kerry championship ) which are highly saught after by clubs and where it's pretty much all clubs in, and I'd say the hermit would agree that the north Kerry championship would be the hardest fought.
And you'd also have district league as well."
Ah in fairness Kingdomboy I think they are all hard fought. Look at East Kerry, Dr Corkes All-Ireland champions and have been taking beatings the past four years in it by Rathmore!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 16/01/2018 11:29:21    2068666

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Kerry should be able to run their championships internally how they please. However, the system leads to teams playing at the wrong level at provincial level. Kerry have over 50 clubs yet only 8 of them are eligible for the senior championship. That means very strong teams are entering the intermediate championship and the same at junior level.

For fariness their junior champions should be representing Kerry at intermediate level in the munster and all ireland series. I believe they also have a junior b championship and the winners of this should be representing Kerry at junior level. It would be much fairer than how its currently done.

In Tyrone there are 48 clubs. 16 senior 16 intermediate and 16 junior. This split is much fairer in terms of how Tyrone is represented at the various levels. The Moy actually finished 7th in division 2 meaning on league form they are the 23rd best team in Tyrone compared to an ghaeltacht who are 2nd best in Kerry.

A Another (None) - Posts: 193 - 16/01/2018 12:19:05    2068676

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Replying To A Another:  "Kerry should be able to run their championships internally how they please. However, the system leads to teams playing at the wrong level at provincial level. Kerry have over 50 clubs yet only 8 of them are eligible for the senior championship. That means very strong teams are entering the intermediate championship and the same at junior level.

For fariness their junior champions should be representing Kerry at intermediate level in the munster and all ireland series. I believe they also have a junior b championship and the winners of this should be representing Kerry at junior level. It would be much fairer than how its currently done.

In Tyrone there are 48 clubs. 16 senior 16 intermediate and 16 junior. This split is much fairer in terms of how Tyrone is represented at the various levels. The Moy actually finished 7th in division 2 meaning on league form they are the 23rd best team in Tyrone compared to an ghaeltacht who are 2nd best in Kerry."
You have explained it well here.
Kerry can play their championship however they like, it seems to work well in Kerry.
However An Gaeltacht are playing teams and players of a higher standard that Moy are. A lot better. So clearly they have an advantage.
Glad the game is on TG4 however it clashes with the McKenna cup final I believe.
Expecting Moy to win actually.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 16/01/2018 13:18:27    2068684

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Kerry have a great set up alright.

I remember going to see An Gaeltacht play an AI Senior club semifinal once in Thurles.

They lost the final that year to Caltra of Galway who were very good indeed.

Moyle (Tipperary) - Posts: 91 - 16/01/2018 13:22:42    2068686

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Ah in fairness Kingdomboy I think they are all hard fought. Look at East Kerry, Dr Corkes All-Ireland champions and have been taking beatings the past four years in it by Rathmore!"
You're right the hermit, rathmore are a brilliant team and always raise their game when they play the crokes.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/01/2018 13:43:10    2068692

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Replying To keepherlow:  "Team that was second best team in Kerry senior league just behind Dr Crokes are in an All Ireland intermediate semi final.

How is this just?!

These intermediate and junior competitions lose all their meaning when senior teams float between championships trying to win an all-Ireland.!

After winning your provincial this could be the pinnacle of a players career and to be pitted against senior teams in an intermediate or junior all Ireland semifinal/ final just is not right.

For the sake of these competitions this should be looked at by HQ."
Not Kerry's fault they have a vibrant county league.
Players have meaningful games even after their clubs are knocked out of championship.

Come down and live in the county for a few years and then try and understand the way its run before you think the Kerry system is corrupt.

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 16/01/2018 13:58:28    2068698

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "You have explained it well here.
Kerry can play their championship however they like, it seems to work well in Kerry.
However An Gaeltacht are playing teams and players of a higher standard that Moy are. A lot better. So clearly they have an advantage.
Glad the game is on TG4 however it clashes with the McKenna cup final I believe.
Expecting Moy to win actually."
Ya look this has been our setup for as long as I can remember and the intermediate and junior allireland championships only came to be in the early to mid naughties so it's not like we're trying to get one over anyone else and as you say every county can run their competitions anyway they want.
Moy have a great chance on Sunday and they will probably use this as something to drive them on ,I'm looking forward to it come what may.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/01/2018 14:53:05    2068706

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Replying To woops:  "Not Kerry's fault they have a vibrant county league.
Players have meaningful games even after their clubs are knocked out of championship.

Come down and live in the county for a few years and then try and understand the way its run before you think the Kerry system is corrupt."
Kind of crazy to suggest someone has to live in a county for a number of years before being capable of offering an opinion.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 442 - 16/01/2018 18:38:00    2068751

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Replying To greatpoint:  "Kind of crazy to suggest someone has to live in a county for a number of years before being capable of offering an opinion."
Not crazy to diss the Kerry system without understanding it???

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 16/01/2018 20:01:12    2068766

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Why is the assumption made by A Another that the Kerry system is wrong and the Tyrone system is right. 16 teams is too many for Senior as far as I am concerned, similarly Dublin having 32 senior clubs is also too many.

As for the county league, its important to remember that in the majority of games, clubs play without their Kerry players (Senior, Junior, U21 etc), thus those without Kerry players and have a solid base club players can perform very well in the league. For instance, An Gaeltacht did finish second but had a full compliment of players all year, this cant be said of a team like Kernis o'Rahillys who would have been missing Moran, Keane and Savage for probably all of their games. These players would make a big difference to a final league position. I would imagine its the same in Tyrone, I'm sure the Cavanaghs playing league football would mean Moy would finish higher than 23rd in the county

Defullback2017 (Kerry) - Posts: 6 - 17/01/2018 08:40:26    2068789

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The Kerry set up clearly works within the county. You have produced very strong Senior, intermediate and junior teams that tend to be in the mix come mid march. The Kerry set up is just very alien to our own set up. I'm not saying our system is correct. I'm not dissing your championship either.

The Tyrone system uses 15 league matches from the previous season to determine which championship a team will play in. i.e if you do not win enough of your 15 junior league matches you are not promoted to intermediate football, thus wont get a crack at intermediate championship. A true reflection on what a junior team is over the course of 15 league games. Its just the way ours is set up.

Coalisland were our second placed team in senior a league. I would believe they would give all-Ireland intermediate championship a good go.

keepherlow (Tyrone) - Posts: 127 - 17/01/2018 09:23:28    2068794

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Replying To woops:  "Not Kerry's fault they have a vibrant county league.
Players have meaningful games even after their clubs are knocked out of championship.

Come down and live in the county for a few years and then try and understand the way its run before you think the Kerry system is corrupt."
Who won division 2 in Kerry last year, because some here seem to be saying that is who should be playing The Moy this weekend to make it fairer?Would they be a team as good as An Gaeltacht?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/01/2018 10:29:35    2068809

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