Meath Forum

Meath V Offaly

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I agree with you. But now is the time cb needs to be sounding out a replacement. Who I don't know but now is the time to start looking"
Mick O'Dowd or Bernard Flynn who probably should be over Meath at the minute

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1186 - 24/04/2023 08:46:46    2473047

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This north versus south Meath and senior player versus junior/intermediate player talk is ridiculous. It shouldn't matter where a player is from or what level they are playing at, if they are good enough to be selected then that should be the only consideration. The level of club football across the county is lagging behind. If you put all the Meath senior clubs into the Dublin championship only 1 or max 2 would get out of the group stage. That being said there is enough quality in the county to be beating the likes of Limerick and Offaly, which raises serious questions about the current Inter County team setup.

royal11 (Meath) - Posts: 102 - 24/04/2023 08:51:18    2473050

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Replying To MillerX:  "Ultimately the top table are in charge."
Exactly .........Tob table need to take charge. Assuming Colm wants to continue in developing the role of manager i believe the CB need to have a proper review with him. . If i was on that review i would be asking why are we where we are now .ie. no improvement in the basics?? No holes barred ! What help do you need to continue? We are not happy with no improvement at this point . Ideally ,we are prepared to invest in developing the role of manager. If you dont see that need and willing to work with others to improve standards then we have a real. problem. We also need to facilitate succession planning for the role.We hardly need to go into how much you have contributing to Meath as a player for which we again say thanks. We dont want you to play but we do want you to manage which is a different ball game. Over to you for a fully considered response and we will talk again next week Stage 1 of review completed!
As a long time Meath supporter i want to see the top table take charge NOW. i am not interested in allowing the Meath managers job be used as easy pickings for long distance drivers to further their "interests" only
Others who show potential for management at even club level can be considered for succession planning from here forward. I am totally convinced we have the people within the county to take us forward. NO need to go elsewhere. EVERY need to look at the demands of the role of manager AND the development requirements of the occupant on an ongoing basis to meet modern day . Most definately grasp the nettle NOW . Show VISION Dublin did it and i congtatulate them . Meath can do the same What is the alternative? more of what we have got for the last 20 years...no thanks ! INVEST in developing the role and improving standards generally for Meath.. My major reservation is that the nettle wont be grasped. ah shur we cant do that etc. The CB need 3 people who are willing to fully prepare for the task of an important review and the challenges that no doubt will be presented.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 24/04/2023 09:14:33    2473056

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "You have to give Colm O'Rourke at least 2 years at the job, and preferably 3 if ye want a shot to turn things around. No manager can work a magic wand in just one year. How many years did Andy McEntee get: 5-6? Give Colm more time. It's the only way forward for Meath!"
Nobody was expecting him to work miracles . We were hoping some marginal improvement on last year and a clear vision of what we as a team are trying to do.

Instead we have absolutely no clue what the vision or plan is and the team is a lot worse than last year .

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 24/04/2023 09:38:52    2473062

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Replying To nobull456:  "Exactly .........Tob table need to take charge. Assuming Colm wants to continue in developing the role of manager i believe the CB need to have a proper review with him. . If i was on that review i would be asking why are we where we are now .ie. no improvement in the basics?? No holes barred ! What help do you need to continue? We are not happy with no improvement at this point . Ideally ,we are prepared to invest in developing the role of manager. If you dont see that need and willing to work with others to improve standards then we have a real. problem. We also need to facilitate succession planning for the role.We hardly need to go into how much you have contributing to Meath as a player for which we again say thanks. We dont want you to play but we do want you to manage which is a different ball game. Over to you for a fully considered response and we will talk again next week Stage 1 of review completed!
As a long time Meath supporter i want to see the top table take charge NOW. i am not interested in allowing the Meath managers job be used as easy pickings for long distance drivers to further their "interests" only
Others who show potential for management at even club level can be considered for succession planning from here forward. I am totally convinced we have the people within the county to take us forward. NO need to go elsewhere. EVERY need to look at the demands of the role of manager AND the development requirements of the occupant on an ongoing basis to meet modern day . Most definately grasp the nettle NOW . Show VISION Dublin did it and i congtatulate them . Meath can do the same What is the alternative? more of what we have got for the last 20 years...no thanks ! INVEST in developing the role and improving standards generally for Meath.. My major reservation is that the nettle wont be grasped. ah shur we cant do that etc. The CB need 3 people who are willing to fully prepare for the task of an important review and the challenges that no doubt will be presented."
you are assuming that the Top Table , have any Clue what's needed/required To Turn Meath GAA (and that is all elements , Football, Hurling, Camoige ) Into one of the Top GAA Organisations in the Country .....what signs in 30 years has suggested that?

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 24/04/2023 10:12:57    2473097

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Replying To hurlit:  "We need more lads from kells for a start.
Then we should get a big full foward and pump high balls in to him which would yield more goals.
Tighten things up at the back
Get more development teams going , have mondays like a blitz in dunganny with total football
This would be a good base to build from"
You can laugh at and make jokes about Kells all you want the fact is they have won 3 out of the last 5 feis cups
2018 Gaeil Colmcille
2019 Summerhill
2020 Gaeil Colmcille
2021 Simonstown Gaels
2022 - Gaeil Colmcille
In Championship they have got to
2016- Semi Final to eventual champions
2017- Semi Final
2018- Quarter Final loss in extra time to eventual champions
2019- Semi Final loss to eventual champions
2020- Final loss last kick of game
2021- Quarter Final loss
2022- Quarter Final loss
Also they sit top of league and also won an A league 1 final in 2019 and lost one in 2018.
Yet they don't have 1 single player on panel to show for this they also sit top of the league currently with Summerhill and Bhulf Tón Clg, People will say the usual Ah Kells have a full team this time of year, Not true recently they have lost Jordan Muldoon and Fionn Reilly to abroad players who were with Meath in last 2 years done well and were dropped. Also missing Seamus Mattimoe who by all accounts is better than any forward that was playing yesterday and also Oisin Reilly a player who was touted for county by many people over the years. Never mind there is 1 or 2 more there aswell, the problem I have seen looking at Kells compared to Dunboyne Ratoath is there conditioning isn't what theirs is which would be a fair point but you gave them Kells players the resources and training they have had you would have benefited for most of them that ship has past but that is Meaths loss
Sean Quiqley in a recent podcast with the BBC said "The players have all the stats now. They might have 50 possessions, 35 hand passes and went nowhere with the ball and didn't really contribute to the outcome of the game.

"County players now, it's about doing a job. The template of a county footballer now is something that I think any average player could get on a county team now if they got themselves into really good shape and did what they were told to do.

"Years ago you were on a county team because you had talent, you were the best player in your club. I'm not saying county players are bad footballers but you can become a county player without having that much real talent and ability."

We have too many of these lads at the moment the focus has been on bringing in these lads where there has been plenty of great players around Meath who lack the conditioning why dont we focus on bringing in these lads and building them up instead of lads that look the part but have very little ball skills yesterday a prime example of this the amount of balls we dropped or threw the ball away.

Our best club forward is James Conlon hes sitting at home and wont go back in to Meath go to any senior game him and Shane Walsh are the 2 stand out forwards, Aaron Lynch should have been given more a go, Mickey Newman is still best club forward in Meath we have and should have been kept around longer even for his experience, Shane McDonnell scored 1-13 marking Harnan 3 weeks ago a prime example of a good footballer with raw natural ability who played underage for Meath who given the right training strength and conditioning could make it prime example you look even at the development squad and the senior squad I dont care what anyone says it is not a bias there is too many lads from likes of Dunboyne and Ratoath and at that the wrong ones from that club, More Examples of Cathal Finnegan, Daire Rowe, Sean Meade, Ruairi o dowd, Frank O' Reilly we are picking lads that look the part and are not the part where if we spent more time developing footballers instead of body builders

Our best fullback was standing beside me in terrace in Conor Mcgil and we lost out best player in Menton which was always gonna be tough for COR to deal with but that doesn't excuse for the lack of basic set up how we defend how we attack we have 0 identity of a system look at Louth, Roscommon getting they very best out of what they have and bridging the gaps to better teams, Yesterday was as bad as I have seen it another game which there has been too ma y of last 3 years where you want to leave at half time

For rest of year I would like to start seeing more of the u20s least they have proven they have some football in them unlike half of them, very hard times to be a Meath Supporter our club football is not great but as Cian ward summed up yesterday the players on Pitch are not under achieving but the county as a whole is.

Head4BlackSpot1990 (Donegal) - Posts: 24 - 24/04/2023 10:49:23    2473120

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "Nobody was expecting him to work miracles . We were hoping some marginal improvement on last year and a clear vision of what we as a team are trying to do.

Instead we have absolutely no clue what the vision or plan is and the team is a lot worse than last year ."
It's debatable if the team is a lot worse than last year, in division 2 last year we finished with 6 points, this year we finished with 5 points (in arguably a tougher division 2).
Last year we got hammered in Leinster by Dublin and then got knocked out in first qualifier by Clare. This year we got beaten by Offaly by 4 points in championship and now have no qualifier.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 24/04/2023 10:59:19    2473128

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Yes that may be the starting point the top table need to be able to do a proper review and yes its a fair question do they have whats needed. ? !If they have not or cant get or wont get it we might as well give up now. Anyway it is not good when we can see that competition for key places on cb is as it is. However they can always subcontract the project with a cb official on the panel if necessary.Where there is a will there is a way!

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 24/04/2023 11:00:37    2473131

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I have 2 views on this.
1. We simply don't have the players available at the moment. The quality is not there. Let's face it. Look at a club championship game, and it's hard to pick out the Meath players. Not disrespect to any player who makes themselves available, but I believe the following are not good enough to be an inter county player - Flood, Harnan, McGowan, Hickey, O'Sullivan, Lenihan, Curtis, Morris, & O'Higgins. Is there better in the county? Hard to know. McGill yes, but he's not playing so forget it for this year. U20s - Gray? I don't think he can go straight in - he hasn't even played Senior club football. Frayne - I don't think he'll cut it at inter counter - not mobile enough.
2. My other view. Do Louth have 15 better footballers than Meath? Do Offaly? I don't think so. But what they have is a very clear structure and plan. And the players know exactly where to be on the field, what to do with and without the ball and when to do it. An organised team can do well. We are the opposite. We are so easy to play against. Offaly kicked scores yesterday and we looked on.
I don't have the answer. I don't think we should be looking to get rid of management just yet. Do any of us know what's happening in training. Is Colm and the team trying to implement a plan and the players are just not capable of carrying it out? Are the players just not buying into Colm? A new management team (like a Mickey Harte, Mal O'Rourke) would, I'm sure, organise us - but we still wouldn't win a Leinster. We'd get to a Leinster Final and into the Sam Maguire series, and remain a middling Division 2 team. We are where we are and I don't see it changing. It'll be a long time before we win a Leinster or All-Ireland. We have memories of the past which were great. At least we have them!

Tinchy1 (Meath) - Posts: 66 - 24/04/2023 11:05:59    2473135

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Replying To royal11:  "This north versus south Meath and senior player versus junior/intermediate player talk is ridiculous. It shouldn't matter where a player is from or what level they are playing at, if they are good enough to be selected then that should be the only consideration. The level of club football across the county is lagging behind. If you put all the Meath senior clubs into the Dublin championship only 1 or max 2 would get out of the group stage. That being said there is enough quality in the county to be beating the likes of Limerick and Offaly, which raises serious questions about the current Inter County team setup."
I don't think there's necessarily a North vs South argument, most of the senior clubs are staggered around the same area so there's naturally going to be more players from those clubs involved. Would say a more fair statement would be the standard of senior football in the country is lagging behind because that's what ultimately feeds the inter country team.

We had Leinster Junior Club champions, all Ireland club junior semi-finalists this year in Castletown who have a couple of brilliant young players, Dunshauglin were Leinster finalists and threw up some good performances en-route - and really should have won that game. We've generally done quite well at Junior and Intermediate level. But we don't seem to develop and bring players on.

We're completely wiped out at senior club level, Ratoath have been comfortably the best side in Meath over the last few years and they look like school boys when they go through to Leinster. When was the last time a senior club was in a Leinster final? 2004 I believe, not good enough.

What's the solution? Do we need to adapt the Kerry like system and let the regional intermediate/junior teams take part in the Senior championship? would certainly expose every player in the county to a higher standard anyway. I'm not saying we go and select a load of players from junior/intermediate clubs for the sake of it, but there's a lot of potential there if we have players playing at a higher level.

hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 251 - 24/04/2023 11:39:36    2473164

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Does O'Rourke need to change his selectors/backup team? Support from outside the county?

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1807 - 24/04/2023 11:40:22    2473165

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Maybe it was better losing yesterday than get a hammering from Dublin in Leinster Final. Look what they done to Laois yesterday. OK Meath would still be in contention for SAM but would get beaten out the gate in it.

In hindsight maybe it would have been better being relegated to D3 and rebuild. There would be a lot of competitive match in Div 3.

Year started well but from the Derry match things went downhill rapidly.

Cant really say that Meath are too good for TC. Down who won two All Irelands in the 90's and contested the final in 2010 could be there also.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3141 - 24/04/2023 11:44:41    2473167

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We are where we are!

CRITICISMS
Aside from the result, the worst from yesterdays performance was witnessing SOME of those players that started, that didn't lay a finger on an Offaly jersey, it was embarrassing! With zero aggression, they looked on at the Offaly players, stood off and let them take shots without pressure. I have to call out the half fowards and midfield (excl. Jones) here. One of them in particular (remaining nameless) was gutless, utterly pathetic in their attempts.This was frankly infuriating to watch as a Meath man.

The backline were inexperienced so I don't want to criticise too much. Mistakes were made and should be learned from, easy scores were conceded.

Most of the forward line didn't take responsibility. In fairness to COS (I'm usually critical) tried hard. Lenehan, whilst also with a bad day at shooting, did show for the ball and challenge.
The forward subs that came in, did well.

FUTURE
Thankfully COR did make changes at HT and those players immediatly made impacts, but critically, it was all too late even at that early stage of the game.

Keoghan, Coffey, Jones, Scully, O'Connor were valient in their efforts.

It is fair to criticuise COR for making such late additions to the team, with inexperiended players (some of those calls workedout, others fell short). He seems to be still learning of player's abilities, which is hard to fathom given a full league and OB cup schedule played. However, it is too soon to make a call on COR, he needs to be given more time.

I think it will take time for Meath suppporters to absorb the propsect of TC. I expect a consignement of supporters will be too proud to attend those games.
Personally, I'm on the fence, if it's scheduled in an exotic location like Leitrim or Sligo, maybe I'll commit to a holiday wk-end, but it really is insulting to our past glories, that we are in this competition.

Tweety (Meath) - Posts: 31 - 24/04/2023 12:13:11    2473189

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "It's debatable if the team is a lot worse than last year, in division 2 last year we finished with 6 points, this year we finished with 5 points (in arguably a tougher division 2).
Last year we got hammered in Leinster by Dublin and then got knocked out in first qualifier by Clare. This year we got beaten by Offaly by 4 points in championship and now have no qualifier."
If you were a regular at the games last year and are a regular at the games this year you would clearly see it is absolutely not debatable whatsoever.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 24/04/2023 12:41:19    2473215

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Replying To bert09:  "Does O'Rourke need to change his selectors/backup team? Support from outside the county?"
Easier said than done. I would be surprised if the current backroom team were his first choice or even some of them his 2nd choice .

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 24/04/2023 12:42:47    2473217

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "Mick O'Dowd or Bernard Flynn who probably should be over Meath at the minute"
O'Dowd didn't work out previously and I never thought I'd say this but he was better than what we have at moment, at least there was some element of a game plan and structure. . I know Bernie and looking at it now he was probably a better option than Colm. As they say hindsight and all that.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 24/04/2023 12:52:13    2473224

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Replying To Tinchy1:  "I have 2 views on this.
1. We simply don't have the players available at the moment. The quality is not there. Let's face it. Look at a club championship game, and it's hard to pick out the Meath players. Not disrespect to any player who makes themselves available, but I believe the following are not good enough to be an inter county player - Flood, Harnan, McGowan, Hickey, O'Sullivan, Lenihan, Curtis, Morris, & O'Higgins. Is there better in the county? Hard to know. McGill yes, but he's not playing so forget it for this year. U20s - Gray? I don't think he can go straight in - he hasn't even played Senior club football. Frayne - I don't think he'll cut it at inter counter - not mobile enough.
2. My other view. Do Louth have 15 better footballers than Meath? Do Offaly? I don't think so. But what they have is a very clear structure and plan. And the players know exactly where to be on the field, what to do with and without the ball and when to do it. An organised team can do well. We are the opposite. We are so easy to play against. Offaly kicked scores yesterday and we looked on.
I don't have the answer. I don't think we should be looking to get rid of management just yet. Do any of us know what's happening in training. Is Colm and the team trying to implement a plan and the players are just not capable of carrying it out? Are the players just not buying into Colm? A new management team (like a Mickey Harte, Mal O'Rourke) would, I'm sure, organise us - but we still wouldn't win a Leinster. We'd get to a Leinster Final and into the Sam Maguire series, and remain a middling Division 2 team. We are where we are and I don't see it changing. It'll be a long time before we win a Leinster or All-Ireland. We have memories of the past which were great. At least we have them!"
I can't say I know much about Offaly football but I'm guessing Offaly got a few from the u20 All Ireland winning team.
It's not necessarily true at the moment Meath have a better pool of players to pick from than Offaly.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 24/04/2023 12:53:58    2473226

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Replying To Tinchy1:  "I have 2 views on this.
1. We simply don't have the players available at the moment. The quality is not there. Let's face it. Look at a club championship game, and it's hard to pick out the Meath players. Not disrespect to any player who makes themselves available, but I believe the following are not good enough to be an inter county player - Flood, Harnan, McGowan, Hickey, O'Sullivan, Lenihan, Curtis, Morris, & O'Higgins. Is there better in the county? Hard to know. McGill yes, but he's not playing so forget it for this year. U20s - Gray? I don't think he can go straight in - he hasn't even played Senior club football. Frayne - I don't think he'll cut it at inter counter - not mobile enough.
2. My other view. Do Louth have 15 better footballers than Meath? Do Offaly? I don't think so. But what they have is a very clear structure and plan. And the players know exactly where to be on the field, what to do with and without the ball and when to do it. An organised team can do well. We are the opposite. We are so easy to play against. Offaly kicked scores yesterday and we looked on.
I don't have the answer. I don't think we should be looking to get rid of management just yet. Do any of us know what's happening in training. Is Colm and the team trying to implement a plan and the players are just not capable of carrying it out? Are the players just not buying into Colm? A new management team (like a Mickey Harte, Mal O'Rourke) would, I'm sure, organise us - but we still wouldn't win a Leinster. We'd get to a Leinster Final and into the Sam Maguire series, and remain a middling Division 2 team. We are where we are and I don't see it changing. It'll be a long time before we win a Leinster or All-Ireland. We have memories of the past which were great. At least we have them!"
While I agree with you that organisation and passion is a huge factor as evidenced with the transformation that Mickey Harte has made at Louth I don't agree with your implication that there is no one from the under 20's capable of making the step up to that team.

Surely the Tailteann Cup is the perfect opportunity for Frayne, Gray and one or two others possibly to be gradually introduced. Also other members of the panel need to be given a decent go (not the last 15 minutes when the game is lost) - or drop them off the panel and let them go back to their clubs.

stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 24/04/2023 12:57:51    2473229

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Replying To royaldunne:  "O'Dowd didn't work out previously and I never thought I'd say this but he was better than what we have at moment, at least there was some element of a game plan and structure. . I know Bernie and looking at it now he was probably a better option than Colm. As they say hindsight and all that."
The way I am agreeing with you RD ..O'Dowd would be better than what we have at the moment.

O'Dowd had a very good first season with lots of promise , I think his biggest mistake was he got rid of the experienced players way to quickly , it backfired on him for the rest of his term badly , it was a gamble he made that could have worked but for him unfortunately it didn't.

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 24/04/2023 13:01:25    2473230

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I for one would be extremely happy for an outside manager. I wanted Eamonn fitz this time but for whatever reason that didn't happen despite him been interviewed.
Internally I suppose obric deserves to be looked at. I would actually like to see Gillespie been talked to . Young enthusiastic, and doing a good job with summerhill. Our fb line has been terrible all year. It brings up the question as to why McGill ls not there. That's down to management and not the top table."
For crying out loud, we could have Lyons, Fay, O'Malley and anyone you like in there and it wouldn't matter. We never laid a hand on them in the middle of the field. They were coming in droves at the full back line, they had no chance.
Why was Jones not starting, if he was fit to come on then he was fit enough to start.

latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 24/04/2023 13:27:32    2473240

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