Meath Forum

Meath V Offaly

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For this poster the most difficult part of coping with the aftermath of the failure to improve after the early stage of development is the agendas and parochialism presented as logical and unbiased. Harmless enough of course but hardly constructive. I still say we have to compare like with like .You dont compare 6 months with 6 years and claim that is objective assesment. Forget about the WHO does the job and concentrate on WHATare the requirements and who would best fit the role with whatever resourses is appropriate.The problems are at least 20 years old they are simply a refusal to update to meet the requirements of the modern game in terms of coaching standards and preparation generally. I simply cannot understand at all why we are so poor in the basic skills and even standards generally. To me everything points to lack of leadership and vision from the top table.
I would expect cb to promote a "think in " workshop to assess, develop and maintain relevant standards .for example. Enough is enough. We have to promote interest to counteract the inevitable fall off in supporters after this setback.. Just one ingredient required to start with VISION. as demonstated by Dublin with full rewards delivered in full

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 24/04/2023 13:41:05    2473249

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Replying To bert09:  "Does O'Rourke need to change his selectors/backup team? Support from outside the county?"
Would think so... A done Buckley, Stephen Rochford type addition is whats lacking.
Paul Garrigan done great work with the ladies, but ultimatley it didnt carry across.

At the end of the day, its his system & game plan thats in place (or not as it seems) & it hasnt worked. I think Colm has given him the space in the league even though it wasnt working, & maybe now is time to look at other option for that role or element of the backroom

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 24/04/2023 13:45:16    2473252

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Replying To latouche25:  "For crying out loud, we could have Lyons, Fay, O'Malley and anyone you like in there and it wouldn't matter. We never laid a hand on them in the middle of the field. They were coming in droves at the full back line, they had no chance.
Why was Jones not starting, if he was fit to come on then he was fit enough to start."
Absolutely, maybe if the team was coached correctly and had a defensive system of some sort and not playing man on man in 2023 we might have stopped them running through us . You don't need anyone special there there just lads being coached a defensive system with a bit of shape and thats good enough. But if you don't have any system the Kells junior B team would have did what Offaly did to Meath yesterday.

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 24/04/2023 13:53:10    2473257

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Replying To Blackspot09:  "If you were a regular at the games last year and are a regular at the games this year you would clearly see it is absolutely not debatable whatsoever."
For me it's debatable. The thing about it is the most recent crisis always seems the worst, people easily forget similar things were being said when the last guy was there.
In some of the early games in the league we did some good things. At times some of the kicking in was accurate and found a man, especially the Cork game where Walsh was very good.
Even in the Louth game in the first quarter before the sending off and in the third quarter we did some good things.
Andy got too much criticism back then and same with Colm now.
The reason I'm standing up for Colm at the moment is not that I think all the criticisms are invalid more so I find it ridiculous how easy it is for supporters to say the recent crisis is the worst ever, people say this about every Meath manager.
We've had some horrific beatings in Croker by Dublin in last decade. Lost to Longford, collapsed to Westmeath. Previous managers got criticism for basic stuff like lack of fitness/ no kick out strategies/ no free takers etc. Things aren't as unique as people are making out now. Despite this previous managers got 4 and 6 years.
The reason things seem worse now is under the new structure we can now be pushed into the Tailteann.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 24/04/2023 14:28:39    2473279

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Replying To Jinxie:  "Would think so... A done Buckley, Stephen Rochford type addition is whats lacking.
Paul Garrigan done great work with the ladies, but ultimatley it didnt carry across.

At the end of the day, its his system & game plan thats in place (or not as it seems) & it hasnt worked. I think Colm has given him the space in the league even though it wasnt working, & maybe now is time to look at other option for that role or element of the backroom"
First thing we should do is enquire from Malachy O Rourke as to why he didn't want the Job last time round. And the greatest gift he could bestow on Us would be to be brutally honest. Some of the reasons we are losing out on guys who could start turning things around , is that they are less than impressed with the whole environment, and that is not just about squads of players. As long as we don't look in the mirror, we will get loads of lads with their hands up to take looking to be the Man & to take advantage of our Incompetence

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 401 - 24/04/2023 14:33:28    2473283

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Replying To Tweety:  "We are where we are!

CRITICISMS
Aside from the result, the worst from yesterdays performance was witnessing SOME of those players that started, that didn't lay a finger on an Offaly jersey, it was embarrassing! With zero aggression, they looked on at the Offaly players, stood off and let them take shots without pressure. I have to call out the half fowards and midfield (excl. Jones) here. One of them in particular (remaining nameless) was gutless, utterly pathetic in their attempts.This was frankly infuriating to watch as a Meath man.

The backline were inexperienced so I don't want to criticise too much. Mistakes were made and should be learned from, easy scores were conceded.

Most of the forward line didn't take responsibility. In fairness to COS (I'm usually critical) tried hard. Lenehan, whilst also with a bad day at shooting, did show for the ball and challenge.
The forward subs that came in, did well.

FUTURE
Thankfully COR did make changes at HT and those players immediatly made impacts, but critically, it was all too late even at that early stage of the game.

Keoghan, Coffey, Jones, Scully, O'Connor were valient in their efforts.

It is fair to criticuise COR for making such late additions to the team, with inexperiended players (some of those calls workedout, others fell short). He seems to be still learning of player's abilities, which is hard to fathom given a full league and OB cup schedule played. However, it is too soon to make a call on COR, he needs to be given more time.

I think it will take time for Meath suppporters to absorb the propsect of TC. I expect a consignement of supporters will be too proud to attend those games.
Personally, I'm on the fence, if it's scheduled in an exotic location like Leitrim or Sligo, maybe I'll commit to a holiday wk-end, but it really is insulting to our past glories, that we are in this competition."
'Insulting your past glories'. Cannot live in the past.

Down and Cavan can make the same case. Cavan accepted their fate and qualified for final last year.

In hurling Offaly fell from the Liam McCarthy right down two levels to Christy Ring. Again they accepted their fate and are battling back.

When you look at the population of Meath compared with other counties, you have to wonder why they cannot field a decent and competitive team. It is not as if Meath are a dual county or facing competition from other sports. Football is number one sport in the county.

Jack L (None) - Posts: 3141 - 24/04/2023 14:33:58    2473286

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Fairly sensible post (although it's hard to see that immediately after a game). First off it's a very bad result and display. The first half in particular was very bad. But despite what people are saying it is actually not a new low, we've had similar results in last 20 years.
In 2018 Longford knocked us out of Leinster to reach the only semi final they have got to in the last 35 years (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/longford-reach-first-semi-final-in-30-years-with-meath-win-1.3510536).
Had the Tailteann cup structure being in existence in the last 20 years we probably would have previously sometimes have had to play in it (as would Kildare in that time, ye have sometimes being out of the top 2 divisions in football in this time like when Banty brought us down to division 3 for 2013).
It's difficult being out of the championship proper in April and will be hard for supporters (me included) to get up for the start of the Tailteann cup when at the same time the main championship is simultaneously taking place but I hope the Meath team will embrace it and get a bit of a run in it.
The truth is I think with it being his first inter county job O'Rourke is learning on the job a bit, a decent run in the Tailteann cup could be a learning experience for management and players.
There is a bit of a worry our players won't take it seriously due to this disappointment."
It looked like the players (and management) didn't exactly take the league or yesterdays game to seriously so I wouldn't hold out much hope for them in a competition they think is beneath them. That is six games in a row Meath couldn't win, against not exactly top quality sides, apart from Dublin and Derry.

The last time that happened was in division one in 2020 when Meath were extremely competitive with the top 6 or 7 teams in the country at the time and should have beaten Galway and Mayo at home, drew with Monaghan away, and pushed Dublin and Tyrone hard away.

Meath look like a team that can't wait for the season to end already, and the manager likewise.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 24/04/2023 14:44:30    2473296

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Replying To bert09:  "Does O'Rourke need to change his selectors/backup team? Support from outside the county?"
He has Sean Boylan as a selector one of the greatest motivators of all time. Did the team look motivated yesterday or anytime since the Cork game. He poached the men behind the Ladies team success and things look shambolic at the moment. On the subject of the best forward in Meath at the moment Michael Newman, Cian Ward and Beano Hanlon are the best and they are all well beyond the 30 mark. This is a reality.

latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 24/04/2023 15:04:18    2473308

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Can we please stop this nonsense talk of changing managers, Colm hasn't done everything perfect buy he is most certainly not deserving of some of the criticism I see posted here and elsewhere by people who I thought knew better, the problems run much deeper than a manager and here we have a 65 years old man who answered the call of the county and sacrificed a lot to answer that call, he deserves more respect in my opinion and the gleeful jeering by Keegan and Cavanagh on the Sunday Gane yesterday was nothing short of shameful and the fact it was almost promoted by the host was even more sickening, its bad enough when we have clowns like that taking pot shots without people in our own county doing it as well

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3743 - 24/04/2023 15:21:27    2473314

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "First thing we should do is enquire from Malachy O Rourke as to why he didn't want the Job last time round. And the greatest gift he could bestow on Us would be to be brutally honest. Some of the reasons we are losing out on guys who could start turning things around , is that they are less than impressed with the whole environment, and that is not just about squads of players. As long as we don't look in the mirror, we will get loads of lads with their hands up to take looking to be the Man & to take advantage of our Incompetence"
If you were Malachy O'Rourke or any similar person, & took a browse through here for the past 24 hours... Its hardly entice you to want to part of the "culture".....

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 24/04/2023 15:30:50    2473319

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "For me it's debatable. The thing about it is the most recent crisis always seems the worst, people easily forget similar things were being said when the last guy was there.
In some of the early games in the league we did some good things. At times some of the kicking in was accurate and found a man, especially the Cork game where Walsh was very good.
Even in the Louth game in the first quarter before the sending off and in the third quarter we did some good things.
Andy got too much criticism back then and same with Colm now.
The reason I'm standing up for Colm at the moment is not that I think all the criticisms are invalid more so I find it ridiculous how easy it is for supporters to say the recent crisis is the worst ever, people say this about every Meath manager.
We've had some horrific beatings in Croker by Dublin in last decade. Lost to Longford, collapsed to Westmeath. Previous managers got criticism for basic stuff like lack of fitness/ no kick out strategies/ no free takers etc. Things aren't as unique as people are making out now. Despite this previous managers got 4 and 6 years.
The reason things seem worse now is under the new structure we can now be pushed into the Tailteann."
The most over used phrase in Meath football,,"worst team in living memory" or such like. This crisis has been over 20 years in the making and has quite a way to go. Agreements were reached last year between CB and COR to put structures in place to attempt to halt our decline and some want them scrapped and start all over again. The development squad under C o Bric, divisional games finally got up and running and there seems to be alingment between u20 and senior. What other concrete steps can we put in place, reviews have there place but are little more than talking shops with little positive outcomes. Management can only select from whats on show. Being the best back/forward in Meath holds little water at present, they are competing against players of similar talent, which looks really low at present. I imagine Colm has all the resourses at his disposal except for raw talent. Players coming into county setup would be expected to have the basic skills embedded, however, they look poorly prepared for such a step up. If CB panic at this stage then they loose all creditability and just like last time no one will want a job that changes its terms at short notice. Let him complete the agreed term, buck stops with him and I will be surprised if there are no changes to backroom team.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 24/04/2023 15:33:13    2473322

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Replying To royaldunne:  "O'Dowd didn't work out previously and I never thought I'd say this but he was better than what we have at moment, at least there was some element of a game plan and structure. . I know Bernie and looking at it now he was probably a better option than Colm. As they say hindsight and all that."
He had assembled a top notch management team when going for the Roscommon job, Wasn't just selectors he had top psychologist and nutritionist on board it was a very very professional set up. He pulled out of going for the Roscommon job because some of the interview panel didn't believe he was able to get this backroom team together and wanted to phone call some of the guys to ask them. Bernard ended up withdrawing but i have it on very good authority that he had everyone he said he had.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1186 - 24/04/2023 15:35:42    2473323

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Replying To latouche25:  "He has Sean Boylan as a selector one of the greatest motivators of all time. Did the team look motivated yesterday or anytime since the Cork game. He poached the men behind the Ladies team success and things look shambolic at the moment. On the subject of the best forward in Meath at the moment Michael Newman, Cian Ward and Beano Hanlon are the best and they are all well beyond the 30 mark. This is a reality."
the Problem in a nutshell. Its an obvious problem but most dont want to talk about it as there's no drama to be had. The Talent is not there like it used to be and its as black and white as that. As another poster said you could pick the cream of the crop from around the country to manage Meath currently and it wouldn't make an iota of a difference.

Its a bit like the Man Utd situation of the past few years. Some players are detrimental to the effort and simply not up to intercounty div 2/3 standard. Unfortunately we cant go shopping for new players.

I dont blame O'rourke for this at all as he is not the one out kicking ball. The lads are provided with every tool and requirement they could need and that's the result. The basic skills and intelligence/cuteness to win dogged games has long been lost in meath.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 640 - 24/04/2023 15:53:19    2473330

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Replying To sourmilk93:  "He had assembled a top notch management team when going for the Roscommon job, Wasn't just selectors he had top psychologist and nutritionist on board it was a very very professional set up. He pulled out of going for the Roscommon job because some of the interview panel didn't believe he was able to get this backroom team together and wanted to phone call some of the guys to ask them. Bernard ended up withdrawing but i have it on very good authority that he had everyone he said he had."
Did BF withdraw? He said he was dissapointed in way he learned of COR appointment.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 24/04/2023 16:03:38    2473334

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Replying To Richieq:  "Can we please stop this nonsense talk of changing managers, Colm hasn't done everything perfect buy he is most certainly not deserving of some of the criticism I see posted here and elsewhere by people who I thought knew better, the problems run much deeper than a manager and here we have a 65 years old man who answered the call of the county and sacrificed a lot to answer that call, he deserves more respect in my opinion and the gleeful jeering by Keegan and Cavanagh on the Sunday Gane yesterday was nothing short of shameful and the fact it was almost promoted by the host was even more sickening, its bad enough when we have clowns like that taking pot shots without people in our own county doing it as well"
Well said, just typical kneejerk reaction. Surprised Sunday Game give Cavanagh the forum for his bitterness, rarely a good word for anyone.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 24/04/2023 16:09:02    2473338

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Replying To Richieq:  "Can we please stop this nonsense talk of changing managers, Colm hasn't done everything perfect buy he is most certainly not deserving of some of the criticism I see posted here and elsewhere by people who I thought knew better, the problems run much deeper than a manager and here we have a 65 years old man who answered the call of the county and sacrificed a lot to answer that call, he deserves more respect in my opinion and the gleeful jeering by Keegan and Cavanagh on the Sunday Gane yesterday was nothing short of shameful and the fact it was almost promoted by the host was even more sickening, its bad enough when we have clowns like that taking pot shots without people in our own county doing it as well"
In fairness,while I dont listen that much or pay attention to alot of what they say on the Sundsy game Keegan and Cavanagh are only doing what Colm did for years in the same seat.He has criticised many over the years so you are always going to have people willing to stick the boot in to him now the roles have reversed.While I'm not calling for his head surely you cant be happy with the way things have gone this year.We are cut open so easily at the back and we dont score near enough at the other end.Of course we cant blame Colm for it all but can you tell me the system we are playing?We started well V Cork but they were really open at the back but yes that was a decent performance v Clare we got lucky with goals gave us one if not two,v Derry and Dublin never in the game v Louth yes first 15 mins in each half was alright but fell away v Limerick could have won but also could have lost it and Kildare was a shocking poor flat performance.Yesteday first half shocking again second half better but it could only get better.As I've said in previous posts while of course it's a results business it wouldn't be as bad if performance s were improving or you could see a gameplan but I dont see any and performance s have got worse every game.I know its early 6/8 months and of course it will take time but its deeply concerning the year so far.We should be competitive in the Tailteann cup and hopefully get a few wins because confidence is so low at the minute.I think we are getting more criticism because we have dropped out of the Sam Maguire cup and last couple of managers have at least been in the qualifiers but unfortunately the new system came in and that's were we are.If we dont do well in TC he will be under even more pressure.Will the players take it seriously?Will the supporters?Its going ro interesting to see.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 24/04/2023 16:23:46    2473351

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Here is the the thing , Colm O'Rourke took the Meath job because he though he could have made a difference and he would have also thought the players are there at club level, no way would he have took the job on if Meath were such a shambles , why would anyone take on the job if the players are not there ? For the craic ?

The players are there to beat limerick, Offaly and Louth , there seems to be this weird mental blockage that we don't have the players to beat Dublin so throw the toys out of the pram kinda attitude , it's about beating the teams below us and the same level as first .

I am a simple man with simple needs , I just want us to be competitive and beat the teams we should be beating, that's not a big ask.

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 24/04/2023 16:26:32    2473352

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Replying To Irish_downunder:  "the Problem in a nutshell. Its an obvious problem but most dont want to talk about it as there's no drama to be had. The Talent is not there like it used to be and its as black and white as that. As another poster said you could pick the cream of the crop from around the country to manage Meath currently and it wouldn't make an iota of a difference.

Its a bit like the Man Utd situation of the past few years. Some players are detrimental to the effort and simply not up to intercounty div 2/3 standard. Unfortunately we cant go shopping for new players.

I dont blame O'rourke for this at all as he is not the one out kicking ball. The lads are provided with every tool and requirement they could need and that's the result. The basic skills and intelligence/cuteness to win dogged games has long been lost in meath."
Your right, talent has for whatever reason dried up. Management can only work with whats available and for now its slim pickings. What has happened over the years, easy to blame CB for taking eye off the ball and letting things drift, but its hard to believe how poor the standard of player coming through the club system. As a county team we rarely get more than 12/13 scores per game. Plenty of blame and excuses to go around, but so far its all questions and few answers. Current system is at least an attempt to halt the slide. At least TC gives more meaningfull games ( not to everyones likeing) and a chance to change things around. We got little or nothing from qualifiers so hopefully we use this chance to build for next year, what other option is there?

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 24/04/2023 16:36:50    2473364

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Replying To seadog54:  "Did BF withdraw? He said he was dissapointed in way he learned of COR appointment."
When going for the Roscommon job he withdrew.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1186 - 24/04/2023 16:38:30    2473367

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "In fairness,while I dont listen that much or pay attention to alot of what they say on the Sundsy game Keegan and Cavanagh are only doing what Colm did for years in the same seat.He has criticised many over the years so you are always going to have people willing to stick the boot in to him now the roles have reversed.While I'm not calling for his head surely you cant be happy with the way things have gone this year.We are cut open so easily at the back and we dont score near enough at the other end.Of course we cant blame Colm for it all but can you tell me the system we are playing?We started well V Cork but they were really open at the back but yes that was a decent performance v Clare we got lucky with goals gave us one if not two,v Derry and Dublin never in the game v Louth yes first 15 mins in each half was alright but fell away v Limerick could have won but also could have lost it and Kildare was a shocking poor flat performance.Yesteday first half shocking again second half better but it could only get better.As I've said in previous posts while of course it's a results business it wouldn't be as bad if performance s were improving or you could see a gameplan but I dont see any and performance s have got worse every game.I know its early 6/8 months and of course it will take time but its deeply concerning the year so far.We should be competitive in the Tailteann cup and hopefully get a few wins because confidence is so low at the minute.I think we are getting more criticism because we have dropped out of the Sam Maguire cup and last couple of managers have at least been in the qualifiers but unfortunately the new system came in and that's were we are.If we dont do well in TC he will be under even more pressure.Will the players take it seriously?Will the supporters?Its going ro interesting to see."
O'Rourle criticised yes, but Keegan and Cavanagh were sneering and enjoyed the opportunity to do so, of course I'm not happy, I drive from Donegal to these matches so i can assure you I'm not happy but the finger of fault is solely goimg to COR by many and that's wrong, bottom line is we are a county full of decent club players but not interconty players, I'm sure every player I've heard mentioned on here that should be on the county team or panel have been tried at one stage or another and many have been found wanting, the quality is not there at the moment and no system or plan in the world will make up for that. In a perverse way what happened yesterday and the realisation of the Tailteann Cup could turn out to be the best thing to happen for years. As for taking it seriously yes we all should, and I'd be disgusted if we didn't, water always finds its own level and for now we have found ours, its where we are and the players must go and do their best and as supporters we must do our best too.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3743 - 24/04/2023 16:52:06    2473379

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