National Forum

The Limerick 5 In A Row, Will They Do It?

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Yes indeed Flanagan got 1.3 off him last year andd 6 points from play off him below in Cork in 18, with Limerick down to 14 men, for most of the game and he was destroyed above in Croke Park in Semi Finals in 17 and 18. Hard to understand how he is there so long. He is three months older than Declan Hannon."
I won't analyze his performances over his career, but last year he performed well, and Pat Ryan obviously rates him.All Damien can do is put his hand up for selection, and he obviously has done that, and satisfied the selectors. He is probably the most maligned and criticized player to ever pull on the Cork jersey and kudos to him, to keep performing at top level in both codes. He excelled with Castlehaven in the big ball game this year in all Ireland club championship.

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 241 - 02/04/2024 15:15:01    2535202

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""...but they [Limerick
have just produced the greatest team of all time"

Is that a fact?"]Impossible and unfair to compare teams of different eras. The game in 1960's for example is from a generation ago, and comparison to today's game is meaningless. Kilkenny team of 2006-2012? And current Limerick team? Who knows as both were dominant. It's irrelevant really and just generates conversation in online forums, in a lull before championship. Still no chat about upcoming league final!

Ryanteam (Cork) - Posts: 241 - 02/04/2024 16:49:04    2535226

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "
Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""...but they [Limerick
have just produced the greatest team of all time"

Is that a fact?"
Impossible and unfair to compare teams of different eras. The game in 1960's for example is from a generation ago, and comparison to today's game is meaningless. Kilkenny team of 2006-2012? And current Limerick team? Who knows as both were dominant. It's irrelevant really and just generates conversation in online forums, in a lull before championship. Still no chat about upcoming league final!"]Well that is true - points well made. With different training regimes, nature of major opponents in the era etc, it is hard to be definitive about these things

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4353 - 02/04/2024 20:30:38    2535254

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Replying To Ryanteam:  "Boyle sports latest odds for SHC winners…, Limerick 4/5. Clare, Kilkenny, Galway 13/2. Cork 8/1. Tipperary 12/1. Waterford 50/1. Wexford 66/1. Bookies have their mind made up and it's Limerick at a canter, and the bookies are rarely wrong.Time to go on holiday!"
The fact that Wexford are further out than 5 Munster teams is a mathematical anomaly.

Two of those teams can't make the all Ireland series.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2775 - 02/04/2024 23:26:34    2535296

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "The fact that Wexford are further out than 5 Munster teams is a mathematical anomaly.

Two of those teams can't make the all Ireland series."
It's to win the AI not to qualify for AI series.

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 211 - 03/04/2024 00:20:58    2535301

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "How were Clare 'unlucky' in the last 2 Semi Finals?"
I don't think Clare could be described as unlucky. In fact they were lucky to be in the semi final in 22.

Clare really need to beat Kilkenny in any meaningful game if they've serious ambitions.

They've all the tools given what they've produced against Limerick in Munster.

An aisf in PUC I wonder.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2775 - 03/04/2024 08:10:09    2535312

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "The fact that Wexford are further out than 5 Munster teams is a mathematical anomaly.

Two of those teams can't make the all Ireland series."
That shows what the bookies think of the standard of Munster v Leinster

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2517 - 03/04/2024 15:27:16    2535396

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "That shows what the bookies think of the standard of Munster v Leinster"
All the bookies have Kilkenny as 2nd favourites, behind Limerick, to win the All-Ireland.
That shows what the bookies think of the standard of Munster (bar Limerick) v Kilkenny.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2501 - 03/04/2024 15:55:33    2535400

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "All the bookies have Kilkenny as 2nd favourites, behind Limerick, to win the All-Ireland.
That shows what the bookies think of the standard of Munster (bar Limerick) v Kilkenny."
Or it shows how easily KK will have it in Leinster

Touchy today are we?

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2517 - 03/04/2024 16:46:49    2535410

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "Or it shows how easily KK will have it in Leinster

Touchy today are we?"
I don't mean to appear touchy. It's a myth that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster, usually purported by people from Munster who use it as an excuse when beaten by them.
Kilkenny came second in Leinster last year, losing to Wexford and drawing with Galway in the Group stage. They beat Galway by 1 point in the Leinster Final. The year before (2022), , they lost to both Galway and Wexford in the Group, but managed to finish 2nd, and win Leinster.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2501 - 03/04/2024 17:19:06    2535414

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Replying To LohansRedHelmet:  "That shows what the bookies think of the standard of Munster v Leinster"
Does that actually stack up though?

Not if you remove Limerick from the equation.

Wexford have won a major competition more recently than most.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2775 - 03/04/2024 18:59:32    2535427

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I don't mean to appear touchy. It's a myth that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster, usually purported by people from Munster who use it as an excuse when beaten by them.
Kilkenny came second in Leinster last year, losing to Wexford and drawing with Galway in the Group stage. They beat Galway by 1 point in the Leinster Final. The year before (2022), , they lost to both Galway and Wexford in the Group, but managed to finish 2nd, and win Leinster."
The jeopardy in Leinster just isn't the same. Galway and KK will come out every year whatever way you cut it. Even if they are not fully up to speed for some games they can still recover. They are already planning for Croker. Munster teams can't look past the first game. You lose that and you are in serious trouble. Also the crowds just don't turn out in big numbers, even when Galway play KK the crowds are disappointing and that lack of occasion also effects things. Very little between quality of teams imo but if you had heaving sold out stadiums in the Leinster championship it would make a massive difference. I will never understand why Galway for example never seem to have large following. Galway KK stand tickets for championship are available with unreserved seats. Stand tickets for the big Munster games already seem to be long gone.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 393 - 03/04/2024 21:53:38    2535465

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Does that actually stack up though?

Not if you remove Limerick from the equation.

Wexford have won a major competition more recently than most."
Only Limerick and Kilkenny have won any championship silverware since the year we last did Doylerwex

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12334 - 03/04/2024 21:59:32    2535466

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "The jeopardy in Leinster just isn't the same. Galway and KK will come out every year whatever way you cut it. Even if they are not fully up to speed for some games they can still recover. They are already planning for Croker. Munster teams can't look past the first game. You lose that and you are in serious trouble. Also the crowds just don't turn out in big numbers, even when Galway play KK the crowds are disappointing and that lack of occasion also effects things. Very little between quality of teams imo but if you had heaving sold out stadiums in the Leinster championship it would make a massive difference. I will never understand why Galway for example never seem to have large following. Galway KK stand tickets for championship are available with unreserved seats. Stand tickets for the big Munster games already seem to be long gone."
There's a risk of being relegated though.

Ok Kilkenny will always come through.

Munster games are generally more evenly matched, but Wexford Kilkenny, Kilkenny Galway, Dublin Galway have produced just as fine of contests over the years.

In spite of all the hype, we can fairly safely say Limerick, Clare and tipp will come through the same as last year. Not ruling Cork out but will be hard for them.

That's particularly hard on Cork or Waterford given they're better than the bottom two in Leinster but Waterford could lose all their games and their top tier status is Safe.

In Leinster, we'd expect Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford, although Dublin could so is it really that different?

Wexford nearly got relegated over a bad second half last year.

Wexford Kilkenny have been among the games of the year in 22 and 23 and neither on the telly.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2775 - 03/04/2024 23:32:33    2535479

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "The jeopardy in Leinster just isn't the same. Galway and KK will come out every year whatever way you cut it. Even if they are not fully up to speed for some games they can still recover. They are already planning for Croker. Munster teams can't look past the first game. You lose that and you are in serious trouble. Also the crowds just don't turn out in big numbers, even when Galway play KK the crowds are disappointing and that lack of occasion also effects things. Very little between quality of teams imo but if you had heaving sold out stadiums in the Leinster championship it would make a massive difference. I will never understand why Galway for example never seem to have large following. Galway KK stand tickets for championship are available with unreserved seats. Stand tickets for the big Munster games already seem to be long gone."
My local club send demand for tickets for Clare Limerick is 3 times their supply.

There is going to be some hunt for tickets over the next week or so for some. Thankfully not for me.

But you make a fair point re the lack of competition in Leinster is killing the attendances. 25000 attended the Leinster final in Croke Park last year. That's over 5000 less than the round robin game between Clare and Limerick.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2517 - 04/04/2024 08:18:34    2535488

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To Oldtourman:  "[quote=Cockney_Cat:  ""...but they [Limerick
have just produced the greatest team of all time"

Is that a fact?"
Well it is a proposition tbat can be argued. They are almost certainly the best team that ever came out of Munster."]For me, just my opinion, it's very hard to compare different eras. But as far as Munster goes the Cork team from 1941 to 1956 won 8 AIs from 10 appearances including a four in a row. The Tipp team from 1958 to 1968 won 5 AIs from 8 appearances, although John Doyle himself won 8 AI medals from 1949 to 1968, while Jimmy won 6 from 1958 to 1971. The current Limerick team has won 5 AIs from 6 appearances. Certainly if they win the 5 in a row Id consider them better than the great Tipp team. To be considered better than the 40s/50s Cork team, or the Kilkenny team who won 8 AIs from 9 appearances from 2006 to 2015, or the Kilkenny team from 1904 to 1913 who win 7 AIs and mightve won one more had they not refused to take part in 1908, they'd want to win a few more AIs and keep appearing in a few more finals. Certainly they are one of the greatest of all time as it is."]I agree it's impossible to meaningfully compare teams (and indeed players) from different eras. The great teams from KK, Cork and Tipp in the past operated in a very different environment - difficult playing conditions, much heavier ball etc. It can be argued that the Munster and Leinster championships that they played in were not as competitive as nowadays. On the other hand, there was no "second chance" until 1997. One bad day and you were gone. The game and the structures have changed so much over the last few decades, but having said that, the current Limerick team, whether they achieve 5-in-a-row or not, will surely go down in history as one of the greatest of all time.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 553 - 04/04/2024 10:04:20    2535508

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "There's a risk of being relegated though.

Ok Kilkenny will always come through.

Munster games are generally more evenly matched, but Wexford Kilkenny, Kilkenny Galway, Dublin Galway have produced just as fine of contests over the years.

In spite of all the hype, we can fairly safely say Limerick, Clare and tipp will come through the same as last year. Not ruling Cork out but will be hard for them.

That's particularly hard on Cork or Waterford given they're better than the bottom two in Leinster but Waterford could lose all their games and their top tier status is Safe.

In Leinster, we'd expect Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford, although Dublin could so is it really that different?

Wexford nearly got relegated over a bad second half last year.

Wexford Kilkenny have been among the games of the year in 22 and 23 and neither on the telly."
I really think that a simple restructure could make it a more competitive All Ireland series.

Instread of the runners up in the Joe Mc going through to All Ireland series there should be a playoff between 4th in Munster and 4th in Leinster and the winner progresses. It would stop any talk of unfairness between the provinces and I dont think the runners up of Joe mc should be getting through anyway.

However, I do think the Munster council would oppose it as it might slightly lessen the appeal of the Munster championship and attendences would suffer.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2517 - 04/04/2024 10:30:32    2535519

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "The jeopardy in Leinster just isn't the same. Galway and KK will come out every year whatever way you cut it. Even if they are not fully up to speed for some games they can still recover. They are already planning for Croker. Munster teams can't look past the first game. You lose that and you are in serious trouble. Also the crowds just don't turn out in big numbers, even when Galway play KK the crowds are disappointing and that lack of occasion also effects things. Very little between quality of teams imo but if you had heaving sold out stadiums in the Leinster championship it would make a massive difference. I will never understand why Galway for example never seem to have large following. Galway KK stand tickets for championship are available with unreserved seats. Stand tickets for the big Munster games already seem to be long gone."
But you aren't in serious trouble. Even if you don't win a single game as Waterford and Tipp have done on multiple occasions. No Munster team had to face Kilkenny knowing that if they lost they'd be in the Joe Mac next year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12334 - 04/04/2024 10:57:56    2535533

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "The jeopardy in Leinster just isn't the same. Galway and KK will come out every year whatever way you cut it. Even if they are not fully up to speed for some games they can still recover. They are already planning for Croker. Munster teams can't look past the first game. You lose that and you are in serious trouble. Also the crowds just don't turn out in big numbers, even when Galway play KK the crowds are disappointing and that lack of occasion also effects things. Very little between quality of teams imo but if you had heaving sold out stadiums in the Leinster championship it would make a massive difference. I will never understand why Galway for example never seem to have large following. Galway KK stand tickets for championship are available with unreserved seats. Stand tickets for the big Munster games already seem to be long gone."
But you aren't in serious trouble. Even if you don't win a single game as Waterford and Tipp have done on multiple occasions. No Munster team had to face Kilkenny knowing that if they lost they'd be in the Joe Mac next year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12334 - 04/04/2024 10:58:03    2535534

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "There's a risk of being relegated though.

Ok Kilkenny will always come through.

Munster games are generally more evenly matched, but Wexford Kilkenny, Kilkenny Galway, Dublin Galway have produced just as fine of contests over the years.

In spite of all the hype, we can fairly safely say Limerick, Clare and tipp will come through the same as last year. Not ruling Cork out but will be hard for them.

That's particularly hard on Cork or Waterford given they're better than the bottom two in Leinster but Waterford could lose all their games and their top tier status is Safe.

In Leinster, we'd expect Kilkenny, Galway and Wexford, although Dublin could so is it really that different?

Wexford nearly got relegated over a bad second half last year.

Wexford Kilkenny have been among the games of the year in 22 and 23 and neither on the telly."
In 2022 if Galway hadn't had their only championship win over Dublin since 2018 Kilkenny were out of the AI series. Galway didn't make the AI series in 2019. While yes it would be a surprise if Galway and Kilkenny don't make it out of the Leinster Round Robin, it has happened before, and there have only been 4 Round Robins so far.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12334 - 04/04/2024 11:01:26    2535535

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