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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To brianb: "It comes back to a master fixtures list and accepting that top players can have commitments to club, county and college. It shouldn't be a case of the club game giving something to the county game - they should be built around each other and supporting each other." Yes completely agree and it's quite worrying that the President of the association doesn't get that. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 18/06/2024 09:27:24 2552596 Link
12 of the 16 teams who start in the All-Ireland series have lost their previous match. Not exactly an upward curve of positive momentum. The qualifiers should possibly return for all counties who miss out on the provincial finals. The Tailteann Cup then could be a straight knockout as all teams will have lost a provincial round and a qualifier round. Strike 3 in Tailteann and they will be out! The Tailteann winner should be still guaranteed an All-Ireland place in the following year. The 25 counties missing out on the provincial finals, including New York, could play off for 7 places. Qualifier Round 1: 6 of 9 provincial round 1 losers. Could be determined by an agreed fair ranking system. Qualifier Round 2: 14 of 20 qualifier round 1 winners, provincial round 1 losers and provincial round 2 losers. Again, can be determined by an agreed fair ranking. (Note 1: Leinster and Ulster semi-finals should be classified as provincial round 3 as they have an extra hurdle to jump.) Qualifier Round 3: 14 qualifier round 2 winners, provincial round 1 losers, provincial round 2 losers and provincial round 3 losers. If the Tailteann winner also qualifies for All-Ireland through their provincial final, two counties with the highest agreed fair ranking can receive a bye from qualifier round 3, effectively two "wildcard" qualifiers. Note 2: New York could be in Ireland for weekend 3 of the provincial championships for a Connacht semi-final or else Qualifier Round 1. They can book their flights early. Great logistics! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8287 - 18/06/2024 09:37:33 2552602 Link
Expand the league its the best competition either go home and away or just 3 larger divisions. Knockout championship , no second chances you lose you're out. Bring back replays, in 1991 with football at a low ebb dublin and meath played out 4 epic encounters that captured the publics imagination, rte even started televising them, replays used to be some of the biggest talking point of our game, dublin vs mayo. Meath vs mayo, kildare meath. Imagine the excitement this year if donegal and armagh had to go back at it again, or derry vs armagh last year, Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1661 - 18/06/2024 09:50:43 2552604 Link
Replying To shaggykev: " Replying To edu: "The following is a novel and fresh way of organizing the 16 team A.I.C group stage .It still has the 4 groups of 4.The k.o stage does though lose 2 PQFs and one QF. That is the downside. A.I.C GROUP STAGE CHAMPIONS GROUP [involving the 4 provincial winners GROUPS 1 2 3 [involving 12 0ther teams -seeded draw based on N.L positions QUALIFICATIOIN FOR K.O CRITERIA CHAMPIONS GROUP Winner---- A.I.C. S.F Runner up----A.I.C Q.F Third---- A.I.C P.Q.F [home] Fourth---- A.I.C P.Q.F.[ away] GROUP 1 2 3 Winners ---- A.I.C . Q.F Best R.U---- A.I.C. P.Q.F[home] 2 Best R.U---- A.I.C . P.Q.F [away] All others---- OUT Runners up based[ranked] on N.L positions . K.O. STAGE P.Q.F [2 games] Champions Group Third v 2 best R.U Group 1/2/3 Best R.U Group 1/2/3 v Champions Group Fourth Q.F [3 games] Champions Group R.U Winners Groups 1/2/3 2 P.Q.F Winners SEMI FINALS Champions group winner 3 Q.F Winners Basically the provincial champions are playing for a semi final place and each champion is guaranteed a place in the k.o stages. The Champions group would almost certainly have an annual Dublin v Kerry encounter which is a fixture that rarely happens before the closing stages of the A.I.C. Groups 1/2/3 would certainly have plenty of jeopardy with just 5 out of 12 teams qualifying"]Not awful at all but I fear a phoney war. Is Dublin v Kerry going to reveal all their bags of tricks in a group match to avoid one extra game but potentially give opposition the blueprint to beat you when it matters? Its a very GAA thing but could see issues here. One thing is for certain. Get Dublin out of Croke Park and down the country. Yesterdays game was very enjoyable albeit didnt have a do or die on the line. 16K in Hyde going nuts had a better feel than even what 40-50K in Croke Park would feel like never mind the pitiful numbers the Dubs have been attracting in recent games."]A phoney war! There was no sign of a phoney war on sunday between Dublin and Mayo with both teams going hammer and thongs to win and this with only a Q.F. place at stake .On paper this was probably the most attractive tie of the group stage .It had one of the highest attendances [if not the highest] of the group stages. If it was being played in Castlebar the attendance obviously would have been higher .It just shows people will show up for an attractive fixture. Obviously the cost of living crises has to be having a big effect on attendances more so than a lot of people realize. I would expect a Kerry v Dublin game in the Champions Group in Kerry to be a sell out and in Croke Park to be substantial. edu (Mayo) - Posts: 62 - 18/06/2024 11:08:18 2552650 Link
Replying To Barrowsider: "Expand the league its the best competition either go home and away or just 3 larger divisions. Knockout championship , no second chances you lose you're out. Bring back replays, in 1991 with football at a low ebb dublin and meath played out 4 epic encounters that captured the publics imagination, rte even started televising them, replays used to be some of the biggest talking point of our game, dublin vs mayo. Meath vs mayo, kildare meath. Imagine the excitement this year if donegal and armagh had to go back at it again, or derry vs armagh last year," I definitely don't agree with straight knockout. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 18/06/2024 11:39:42 2552661 Link
Replying To TheFlaker: "I definitely don't agree with straight knockout." A second chance would be acceptable but the current silly system where teams have lost 3 championship matches and are still in the competition is laughable…. ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 18/06/2024 13:06:57 2552704 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "A second chance would be acceptable but the current silly system where teams have lost 3 championship matches and are still in the competition is laughable…." Burns is on the case. Counties will get at least two games in the All-Ireland series. Anyone losing 3 times will be out. No way back! legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8287 - 18/06/2024 13:14:08 2552710 Link
Replying To ahsure.: "Lads where is the advantage for the provincial champions aside from a home game against the 3rd seeds? Okay fair play you avoid the other provincial champions but we have situation now where (for example) Galway have played 6, won 5 and drew 1 playing in the same round and jeopardy as Derry who have played 4, lost 3 and won 1. Monaghan - played 4, lost 2, drew 1 and won 1 etc etc. Just one idea.. If it goes to head to head after the 3rd round of games could they go with provincial champions before score difference? (Would have done us nicely!!) Fully accept we should have closed out our side of the bargain yesterday and tbh I would not have given all this a second thought if we closed it out :D but we need to do more to retain the value of a provincial winners medal. Yeah, I am probably clutching at straws to support my own misery today!!!" I know it looks like it will be changing but there were advantages to the Connacht champions. Avoiding Dublin and Kerry is the biggest advantage. If you lost against mayo you would have been playing Dublin rather than Armagh. You had two weeks break between every game. That's not the case for Ulster champions. By winning the group you also would gauruntee avoiding Kerry or Dublin. Galway I'm sure are just annoyed at themselves more than anything else. In saying all that Derry should be out. Top 2 in each group is what should qualify. All teams should be given the same break between matches and preferably two weeks.And so what about the odd dead rubber if it comes up. Also more generally why treat all provincial winners. Yes, Kerry and Dublin are the two beat teams in Ireland but their provinces are not so why not rewards the winner of the two most competitive provinces more than the other two. Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 780 - 18/06/2024 13:32:27 2552717 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "A second chance would be acceptable but the current silly system where teams have lost 3 championship matches and are still in the competition is laughable…." I know. I don't like the format. That's the point i made well before you did on the attendances thread. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 18/06/2024 13:50:47 2552724 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "Burns is on the case. Counties will get at least two games in the All-Ireland series. Anyone losing 3 times will be out. No way back!" Will this special Burns Congress allow other proposals or will it be restricted to the 6 HQ have drawn up? His attempt at moving the TC games went awry mind you. By the way, if you lose 3 ALL IRELAND CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES in the current system you're eliminated . Losing in the PROVINCIALS is a separate competition. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1955 - 18/06/2024 14:09:55 2552732 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "A second chance would be acceptable but the current silly system where teams have lost 3 championship matches and are still in the competition is laughable…." If Derry happen to win the All Ireland it will be some achievement coming from their poor form in recent games. They would have to win 4 tough games in the next few weeks starting with Mayo away next week. In fact it would be a far greater achievement than Dublin going undefeated and winning the title[ also with every game guaranteed to be at home from here on in]. If Derry were to do the above they would absolutely be worthy Champions. So no not laughable at all. edu (Mayo) - Posts: 62 - 18/06/2024 14:10:03 2552733 Link
Replying To Barrowsider: "Expand the league its the best competition either go home and away or just 3 larger divisions. Knockout championship , no second chances you lose you're out. Bring back replays, in 1991 with football at a low ebb dublin and meath played out 4 epic encounters that captured the publics imagination, rte even started televising them, replays used to be some of the biggest talking point of our game, dublin vs mayo. Meath vs mayo, kildare meath. Imagine the excitement this year if donegal and armagh had to go back at it again, or derry vs armagh last year," That's not a bad idea. It got me thinking a bit. Expand the league - 12 teams in Division 1 & 2 with 2 up/down and a playoff between the next team in each division. Play the All Ireland though the provinces as a straight knock out with a new trophy for the winners. Winners of the league play the winners of the championship for Sam Maguire. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 356 - 18/06/2024 14:25:25 2552738 Link
Replying To brianb: "That's not a bad idea. It got me thinking a bit. Expand the league - 12 teams in Division 1 & 2 with 2 up/down and a playoff between the next team in each division. Play the All Ireland though the provinces as a straight knock out with a new trophy for the winners. Winners of the league play the winners of the championship for Sam Maguire." Interesting idea. In fact most of the latin American countries run an Opening [Apertura] Championship and a Closing [Apertura]Championship followed by Grand Final between the winner of each or by varying degrees of play offs. edu (Mayo) - Posts: 62 - 18/06/2024 15:31:34 2552756 Link
Replying To edu: "If Derry happen to win the All Ireland it will be some achievement coming from their poor form in recent games. They would have to win 4 tough games in the next few weeks starting with Mayo away next week. In fact it would be a far greater achievement than Dublin going undefeated and winning the title[ also with every game guaranteed to be at home from here on in . If Derry were to do the above they would absolutely be worthy Champions. So no not laughable at all."]It would be completely laughable…. How can a team claim to be All Ireland champions after loosing 3 times… I can just about put up with one defeat but more than that turns the whole thing into a farce…. ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3029 - 18/06/2024 17:42:41 2552801 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: " Replying To edu: "If Derry happen to win the All Ireland it will be some achievement coming from their poor form in recent games. They would have to win 4 tough games in the next few weeks starting with Mayo away next week. In fact it would be a far greater achievement than Dublin going undefeated and winning the title[ also with every game guaranteed to be at home from here on in . If Derry were to do the above they would absolutely be worthy Champions. So no not laughable at all." It would be completely laughable…. How can a team claim to be All Ireland champions after loosing 3 times… I can just about put up with one defeat but more than that turns the whole thing into a farce…."]I think the team that wins the A.I Final can claim to be All Ireland Champions irrespective if they lost 0 /1 /2 or 3 games edu (Mayo) - Posts: 62 - 18/06/2024 19:01:35 2552823 Link
Replying To edu: " Replying To ForeverBlue2: "[quote=edu: "If Derry happen to win the All Ireland it will be some achievement coming from their poor form in recent games. They would have to win 4 tough games in the next few weeks starting with Mayo away next week. In fact it would be a far greater achievement than Dublin going undefeated and winning the title[ also with every game guaranteed to be at home from here on in . If Derry were to do the above they would absolutely be worthy Champions. So no not laughable at all." It would be completely laughable…. How can a team claim to be All Ireland champions after loosing 3 times… I can just about put up with one defeat but more than that turns the whole thing into a farce…."]I think the team that wins the A.I Final can claim to be All Ireland Champions irrespective if they lost 0 /1 /2 or 3 games"]Why does losing a game diminish winning the tournament. You don't see it in too many other sports. Losing 3 times and becoming all ireland champions should if it happened never be seen as a bad thing. It shoes the best team even despite some set backs won out KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3674 - 18/06/2024 20:10:25 2552837 Link
Replying To Barrowsider: "Expand the league its the best competition either go home and away or just 3 larger divisions. Knockout championship , no second chances you lose you're out. Bring back replays, in 1991 with football at a low ebb dublin and meath played out 4 epic encounters that captured the publics imagination, rte even started televising them, replays used to be some of the biggest talking point of our game, dublin vs mayo. Meath vs mayo, kildare meath. Imagine the excitement this year if donegal and armagh had to go back at it again, or derry vs armagh last year," I'd like three divisions of 10-10-12, played over two cycles per year - the first being the "League" and the second being the "AI Championship" - with each div split into two groups, half the teams as League opponents (inter-group) and the other half as Championship opponents (intra-group). League KO - After 5 or 6 games (v other group) per team, top 2 (of combined 10 or 12) advance to 3 Div Finals - both Finalists in Divs 2 & 3 go up and replace the bottom 2 (of combined 10 or 12) from the div above for the Tier/Div specific AIC. AIC KO - After 4 or 5 games per team (v own group), the top 3 in each group advance to 3 Tier/Div specific 6-team KO - both Finalists in Divs 2 & 3 go up and replace the bottom teams from each group in div above for the League. Prov Championships - limit each to 4-team SFs & Final, played between League & AIC, with League used to determine 4 highest-ranked qualifiers. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 18/06/2024 22:09:59 2552858 Link
The rules of the competition allow any county lose 3 times and still have a chance to win the all Ireland. It won't happen but thems the rules. The bigger question is why are a team like Galway (and Mayo) rewarded with good performance by putting them into a very tough schedule There should be a gap week between the prelim q final and the q final. tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1197 - 18/06/2024 22:42:58 2552873 Link
Replying To tirawleybaron: "The rules of the competition allow any county lose 3 times and still have a chance to win the all Ireland. It won't happen but thems the rules. The bigger question is why are a team like Galway (and Mayo) rewarded with good performance by putting them into a very tough schedule There should be a gap week between the prelim q final and the q final." These are as a result of the 2 main things that were being pushed for. 1 - More games; more games means someone will loose them and stay in the championship. 2 - Split season; the games must be rushed so all bar 4 teams are out of it before the summer school holidays. We've squeezed more into less and it's squeezing the life out of the game. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 356 - 19/06/2024 09:30:01 2552910 Link
Replying To brianb: "These are as a result of the 2 main things that were being pushed for. 1 - More games; more games means someone will loose them and stay in the championship. 2 - Split season; the games must be rushed so all bar 4 teams are out of it before the summer school holidays. We've squeezed more into less and it's squeezing the life out of the game." I'll be very surprised if the widely discussed "two-chance KO" is not implemented for next season (i.e. 4 Rd 2A winners to QFs, 8 others to Rd 3/Prelim QFs). As usual, I'd like to see it done with a twist - within the '4 groups of 4' and where 2, 3 or 4 teams could advance from a group depending on results after 2 games, as follows: Pot 1 - 8 seeds, incl 4 Prov Champs, 4 League highest. Pot 2 - 8 non-seed other teams. Draw 2 from Pot 1 to each group (Slots 1 & 2). Draw 2 from Pot 2 to each group (Slots 3 & 4). Rd 1 (Groups 1 & 3) - Slot 1v2 & 3v4 (1&3 at home). Rd 1 (Groups 2 & 4) - Slot 2v3 & 4v1 (2&4 at home). Rd 2 (Groups 1 & 3) - Slot 2v3 & 4v1 (1&3 away). Rd 2 (Groups 2 & 4) - Slot 1v2 & 3v4 (2&4 away). After 2 games per team, 'double winners' advance to AI QFs (could be 0 to 8 teams); and 'split one-win, one-loss teams' advance to AI Prelim Rd (could be 0 to 16 teams). As all play one seed & one non-seed in their group, any pairing is possible - e.g. Dublin v Kerry. If all 16 get a third game, it would be a 'Rd of 16 KO'. Does the variable team count KO spice things up, or amount to a needless complication? omahant (USA) - Posts: 2891 - 19/06/2024 15:44:20 2553046 Link