National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "Don't think Jarlath or the GAA will be rushing to make any changes. 8 games at the weekend and not a dead rubber among them. All games so far have consequences down the road. Only a half witted clown could believe that we don't have a good system now. Looking forward to a great weekend of football.will make 4 games this weekend,with a club game on Friday and a Juvenile final on Saturday morning and 2 Sam Maguire Round 3 games on Saturday and Sunday. All for the price of a steak dinner. Thank God for the GAA and to hell with the begrudgers and cry baby's."
Jeasus you are a martyr to the cause…. Big wigs in their suits sipping g&t's love a guy like you running around the country paying in to see rubbish… You must have nothing at all to be at… keep it up, once your happy at it.. you will soon cop on to yourself…and steak dinners around Monaghan must be a woeful price …!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2173 - 14/06/2024 12:07:23    2551390

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Between the provincial championship and the double elimination All-Ireland series, counties will be guaranteed at least 3 games. Strike 3 and they are out. I don't think there can be any complaints.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 14/06/2024 12:43:18    2551407

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Between the provincial championship and the double elimination All-Ireland series, counties will be guaranteed at least 3 games. Strike 3 and they are out. I don't think there can be any complaints."
3 games spread over possibly 3 months.
As compared to 7 League games plated in 9 weeks in Feb/March.
No matter what system, you need more games in April, May, June

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1627 - 14/06/2024 16:38:49    2551468

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Provincial winners should draw Seed 4 teams at the very least. If there is a separate draw for home advantage, so be it. Galway away to Westmeath, Dublin away to Cavan, Donegal away to Cork or Kerry away to Meath isn't harming anyone.
Provincial winners should avoid each other in Round 2A. This will mean provincial winners who win in 2A avoid each other until the semi-finals. Rounds 1, 2A, 2B and 3 should probably have a draw for home advantage. Give everyone a 50:50 chance of home tie and sure, may the best team win on the day."
Open Draw up to Rd 3 might provide interesting ties in each round. Perhaps, to offset, for the QFs & SFs, the team who had the toughest draw up to Rd 3 could be paired with the team who had it easiest; 2nd toughest v 2nd easiest etc.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2729 - 14/06/2024 18:06:20    2551482

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Replying To omahant:  "Open Draw up to Rd 3 might provide interesting ties in each round. Perhaps, to offset, for the QFs & SFs, the team who had the toughest draw up to Rd 3 could be paired with the team who had it easiest; 2nd toughest v 2nd easiest etc."
Toughest based on what criteria?
You love your nonsensical proposals. Don't you?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3551 - 14/06/2024 21:29:03    2551504

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "3 games spread over possibly 3 months.
As compared to 7 League games plated in 9 weeks in Feb/March.
No matter what system, you need more games in April, May, June"
You do need more games in April, May and June if possible. Hurling has plenty of games in April and May at least. There appears to be no appetite to move away from provincial knockout in football.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 14/06/2024 22:05:10    2551509

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Toughest based on what criteria?
You love your nonsensical proposals. Don't you?"
Between omahant and the halfwit from Cavan we will end up with a one game championship. It will be between the team who had the toughest game in 1947 and and the team who had the most jeopardy in 1899. No wonder they don't have time to get to games. It takes a lot of time and lot of stupidity to come up with their formulas.The players have spoken and persuaded the powers that be to come up with a championship that gives us lots of good competitive games and leaves time for the most important part of our association, the clubs to have their championship run off in an orderly fashion, allowing players to plan their other activities in advance. No matter what system we have we will always have spoiled children throwing the toys out of the bath.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 196 - 14/06/2024 23:27:08    2551525

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The double elimination format could be the end of the format changes discussion. Time for a settled structure like the hurling have and get on with the game.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 15/06/2024 09:46:04    2551549

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The double elimination format could be the end of the format changes discussion. Time for a settled structure like the hurling have and get on with the game."
We have the structure. Now let it settle.

ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 196 - 15/06/2024 12:42:13    2551586

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Replying To ORIELMAN85:  "We have the structure. Now let it settle."
You are the only person who thinks the current set up is working …. You are in a minority of one..!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2173 - 15/06/2024 13:21:53    2551590

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They are going the wrong direction in terms of number of games.

The current system isn't great but it's because there's too many teams going through and there's no relegation directly from the championship.

Then you also have groups of 4 not being great because there aren't many draws in GAA and so there are enough potential results outcomes over 2 rounds of games.

Groups of 6 or 8 could be more exciting.

There is something great about a well designed group stage where there's any interplay between results in one fixture and how it impacts the results in the other fixtures. In the NFL this leads to a lot of excitement that knockout football can't replicate.

Double elimination that is actually coming after a Provincial championship also feels rubbish to me and if anything also worse than the old qualifiers system.

This is the problem with incrementalism, the GAA's original system wasn't terrible for what it was trying to achieve. Figure out the All Ireland champion but get a bit more equity between the Provinces, if a teams lost 2 matches they probably aren't really All Ireland champion material. After a while it wasn't working anymore, provincial imbalances really started to increase again and also the top teams were playing way more matches every year and pulling further and further ahead. Tweaking the system wasn't enough to fix the problems and it's continuing to not fix the problem which is needing to get more games for all teams but keep them exciting.

Yes the league is linked to the championship but it's still being played in February and March and there's this weird dynamic between it and the Provincials, teams don't know what they need to do in the league while it's on, the goal in division 1 isn't any different to what it was before, in fact only really division 2 has been spiced up by the change at all.

The simplest way to get more games in but keep everything exciting would be to have fewer teams make the playoff rounds and have promotion and relegation determined within the championship only.

That would elevate the lower tier also, as there'd only be 1 pathway to the top tier. Having 3 different pathways is a bit of joke and doesn't help with engagement in the Tailteann if it's not do or die either.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4286 - 15/06/2024 14:38:31    2551608

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@ Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4266 - 15/06/2024 14:38:31
Realistically the knockout provincial championships are not for the chop. Players and supporters are big fans of the league structure. The double elimination format will allow for a rest weekend after the league finals. The GAA are working with the timescale available.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 15/06/2024 15:02:36    2551611

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Replying To legendzxix:  "@ Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4266 - 15/06/2024 14:38:31
Realistically the knockout provincial championships are not for the chop. Players and supporters are big fans of the league structure. The double elimination format will allow for a rest weekend after the league finals. The GAA are working with the timescale available."
You're probably right doesn't make for a good season though.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4286 - 15/06/2024 15:45:55    2551618

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Successful tournaments typically start with a slate of league/group games leading to a short KO phase to determine the Champion - examples are various -
NFL, AFL, NRL, URC, EPRC, UCL, FIFA WC, AI SHC etc.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2729 - 15/06/2024 15:57:47    2551623

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Replying To omahant:  "Successful tournaments typically start with a slate of league/group games leading to a short KO phase to determine the Champion - examples are various -
NFL, AFL, NRL, URC, EPRC, UCL, FIFA WC, AI SHC etc."
A tiered provincial group stage could be brought in for football. Supposedly it is one of six formats under consideration but not endorsed by the CCC.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 15/06/2024 16:35:00    2551629

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Replying To legendzxix:  "A tiered provincial group stage could be brought in for football. Supposedly it is one of six formats under consideration but not endorsed by the CCC."
Where are you getting this information from?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4286 - 15/06/2024 16:55:39    2551638

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Where are you getting this information from?"
"The four other suggestions are listed but not endorsed by the CCCC - the introduction of a third tier All-Ireland SFC for Division 3 and 4 teams, a return to knock-out Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup games post-provincial, operating the provincial championships on a tiered basis as per the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup and starting the inter-county season with the provincial championships followed by the Allianz Leagues and then a round-robin All-Ireland."
The Examiner reported on this during the week.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 15/06/2024 17:48:16    2551651

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Replying To legendzxix:  ""The four other suggestions are listed but not endorsed by the CCCC - the introduction of a third tier All-Ireland SFC for Division 3 and 4 teams, a return to knock-out Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup games post-provincial, operating the provincial championships on a tiered basis as per the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup and starting the inter-county season with the provincial championships followed by the Allianz Leagues and then a round-robin All-Ireland."
The Examiner reported on this during the week."
Ah cool. See that article now. Interesting.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4286 - 15/06/2024 20:15:40    2551692

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Replying To legendzxix:  ""The four other suggestions are listed but not endorsed by the CCCC - the introduction of a third tier All-Ireland SFC for Division 3 and 4 teams, a return to knock-out Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup games post-provincial, operating the provincial championships on a tiered basis as per the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup and starting the inter-county season with the provincial championships followed by the Allianz Leagues and then a round-robin All-Ireland."
The Examiner reported on this during the week."
I saw that story.
Why's a Kerryman reading the "Cork" Examiner? - still very Cork focused despite the change to a national "Irish" newspaper :)
I'm a subscriber and really enjoy the weekly "Gaelic Football" podcast.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2729 - 16/06/2024 16:42:06    2551920

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Replying To omahant:  "I saw that story.
Why's a Kerryman reading the "Cork" Examiner? - still very Cork focused despite the change to a national "Irish" newspaper :)
I'm a subscriber and really enjoy the weekly "Gaelic Football" podcast."
I'm subscribed to the Irish Independent as they carry the Kerry news and sport. The Examiner report was one of the three a week I can read!
The final round of the group stage brought great excitement again. The bad press is because crowds were poor, 3 get out of the group and it took two monotonous rounds to get to this stage. The double elimination will mean getting to the same round as this weekend after just one round.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8053 - 16/06/2024 19:24:00    2551993

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