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Replying To WexMurph: "Agree, sure our record before it is just as bad , bar an oulart team backboned by intercounty players In almost every line. People think concentrating on one code is the answer, not so sure. Buffers Alley and Rathnure both intermediate now. Shelmaliers somewhat competitive in Leinster and have inter county players all over the field, most of whom have senior hurling medals aswell. I think the culture in Wexford is wrong, I know In Dublin teams are so far ahead in S and C work, video analysis, drink bans( not saying this is the answer ) but then and again they have a lot more funding aswell" Buffers Alley and Rathnure have small playing numbers nowadays though, they were successful on the back of a few families that had a large set of brothers in the family.
Could you imagine the playing numbers in Cuala compared to Buffers Alley?
Oulart lost a lot of finals in Leinster if memory serves me right. A poor return really.
Past hurler (None) - Posts: 744 - 13/11/2023 15:09:01
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "You lads make way too much of this tournament. It is a great tournament played at the worst time of year.
All hurling of worth is played in the summer.
Kilcormac had a back bone of u20 successful team. I had heard of half of those names. In Wexford the top players are across a large number of clubs.
The split season has to change but it will be this time next year when a hurling only club (or a team of players only focusing on hurling) wins a championship when the row will start about it.
The likes of Leinster hurling championships favour the teams of battlers and yesterday Kilcormac were both battlers and better hurlers. You win by a few points with battlers at this time of year, you win by a cricket score with both.
If the big men don't stand up at this time of year, or are marked out of the game, then you have no hope.
Another big problem in Wexford is lads looking for frees, falling over expecting one. Kilcormac were much better at engineering the frees because they were bigger, stronger. In Wexford, referres give those half fisted attempts but Sean Cleary didn't.
The problem in Wexford overall is there is Hurling 365 for the children, there is hurling 65 when it gets to adult level. That never will be enough.
I could never get why Wexford clubs could never make in roads in this competition. Even that great Oulart team only managed 1 title. 5 Dublin clubs (plus UCD) have won it but only 3 Wexford clubs? Crokes won it last year with a team of hurlers only. Maybe there is something there to look at." Clubs that specialise in hurling or football, or have enough players to specialise at both, have always done better at provincial and AI level. That's basic logic or common sense. Likewise counties. If we want to won more club and county AIs we would have to change our approach at club and county level and make clubs specialise more at one or the other. But then we wouldn't be true to ourselves any more. We are one of very few genuinely dual counties with mostly genuinely dual clubs. Maybe the only one. I think it's great my young lads play both tbh.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:11:26
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "Lads blaming split season for being beat is laughable, in the last 20 odd years we won one Leinster title, and this year we were very close to being relegated, we don't have the hurlers unfortunately" Elaborate on how we don't have the hurlers.
This is not reflected in even a 5 year view of our county teams from under 14 up to senior
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2720 - 13/11/2023 15:11:31
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Replying To Viking66: "How would lads training football one week then hurling the next improve their standard at either? Please explain how you think this will improve anyones hurling or football!" If players or clubs want to concentrate more on one code over the other they have the opportunity to rest between rounds of championship rather than being flogged for 8 weeks straight.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 13/11/2023 15:13:53
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Yeah, it's to do with scheduling all right. When you get to about the middle of September, you can't play minor matches midweek any more, because the evenings aren't long enough. And it's not as simple as "just put them on in floodlit venues", because minor (like all underage) is run on a home/away basis right up to the finals. Also the impact that putting a match on in a floodlit venue like Taghmon or Bree or Craanford of Ferns would have on that club's own activities that evening, by way of training for their own matches.
Also the consideration that around the middle of September, some 18-year-olds will be heading away to college for the first time.
So, you're left with having to run minor matches at weekends, along with adult matches. And not as simple either as saying "just put the minor on Saturday, and the adult on Sunday". A club could be in a junior quarter-final (for example) on a Saturday and a senior quarter-final on a Sunday, and still have a minor match to play too, with maybe two of their minors part of the junior team, and another one part of their senior team. What do you then?" Lot of lads on this, and in the county in general, think from a clubs point of view, a players point of view, their own point of view. Very few consider how ####ing complicated the whole thing gets when you have to look at it from a county wide point of view, and factor in all the other points of view;-)
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:14:12
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Replying To Afinestick: "Totally agree . We will not progress in either code running our championships over 7/8 weeks each" Asked this in answer to another post of yours. How exactly would having a lad training for hurling for a week, then football for a week, then back to hurling for a week, and so on for 3 months make his hurling or football any better? Let alone both.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:16:37
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Replying To alwaysasub: "See the proposals were emailed for next years championship, lot of reading so tried to summerise.
Clongeens proposal is a league based championship, 8 games 4 at home, 4 away, where you finish in the league seeds you in championship, then championship, 4 groups of 3, top 4 into quarters, 2nd play plays third in preliminary match, 4 losers into relegation semis.
Sarsfields
League 12 teams play 11 matches, same as above league position determines championship seeding, slightly different three groups of four group a is top 4 seeds from league and are already into quarter final, then top two teams from group b and group c. Bottom 2 from group b and C into relegation semi final.
Reasons
Allows a full year timetable to be set out. (eg championship always begins the weekend of All Ireland Football Final)
Allows intercountry players time to play with their club prior to championship.
All league games matter. This is not the case currently.
Teams are playing competitive games in June and July (currently 2/3 teams are not due to league structure)
Rewards good league performance but does not punish it. Any team relegated will have failed to qualify from group of 4. Then lost a relegation semi-final and final.
Requires 34 weekends for Hurling and Football. Beginning on 1st weekend of March finished mid-October. Can be shortened by running two rounds of fixtures mid-week June and/or Jul
Oulart The Ballaghs motion.
Basically they wants four groups of four for a league based competition to be called Wexford Club Championship. Top 2 into league quarter finals, bottom two into league relegation quarter finals. They want more time for Leinster Leagues etc.
Hurling Advisory Committee
Winners of each division receives home advantage for the first round of the championship." I thought the discussion in regards to next year's championship had been out off until January?
I think that's just for the league.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 13/11/2023 15:16:54
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Replying To alwaysasub: "See the proposals were emailed for next years championship, lot of reading so tried to summerise.
Clongeens proposal is a league based championship, 8 games 4 at home, 4 away, where you finish in the league seeds you in championship, then championship, 4 groups of 3, top 4 into quarters, 2nd play plays third in preliminary match, 4 losers into relegation semis.
Sarsfields
League 12 teams play 11 matches, same as above league position determines championship seeding, slightly different three groups of four group a is top 4 seeds from league and are already into quarter final, then top two teams from group b and group c. Bottom 2 from group b and C into relegation semi final.
Reasons
Allows a full year timetable to be set out. (eg championship always begins the weekend of All Ireland Football Final)
Allows intercountry players time to play with their club prior to championship.
All league games matter. This is not the case currently.
Teams are playing competitive games in June and July (currently 2/3 teams are not due to league structure)
Rewards good league performance but does not punish it. Any team relegated will have failed to qualify from group of 4. Then lost a relegation semi-final and final.
Requires 34 weekends for Hurling and Football. Beginning on 1st weekend of March finished mid-October. Can be shortened by running two rounds of fixtures mid-week June and/or Jul
Oulart The Ballaghs motion.
Basically they wants four groups of four for a league based competition to be called Wexford Club Championship. Top 2 into league quarter finals, bottom two into league relegation quarter finals. They want more time for Leinster Leagues etc.
Hurling Advisory Committee
Winners of each division receives home advantage for the first round of the championship." Clongeens and Sars proposals would be great, once you could get clubs to commit to playing games that would affect their championship standings without their intercounty players. Not sure that's possible. The Hurling Advisory Committees proposal would possibly provide a little incentive to do as well as possible in the League, but you wouldn't then be able to have promotion and relegation. If you did, you could end up with a club winning Div1 and another winning Div2, and then being drawn to meet in the 1st round of the Senior or Intermediate championship. What then? Who gets home advantage?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:22:48
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Replying To Lockerroomboy: "Lads blaming split season for being beat is laughable, in the last 20 odd years we won one Leinster title, and this year we were very close to being relegated, we don't have the hurlers unfortunately" Spot on
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:23:09
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Replying To Timbertony: "Mixing sports each week or every two weeks will do nothing to improve standards I would say, probably make things worse if anything. All it will do is force the majority of clubs, and a lot of players, to commit to a single code, reducing playing numbers and competitiveness.
There needs to be a break after the championship group stages and again the week before the county final. I think that would allow injuries to clear and importantly generate some badly needed profile for the county finals. Something will have to give in the calendar most likely.
At a club league level, I think our county board reps should be pushing for leagues with clubs in neighbouring counties with likes of KK, Waterford etc without county players. I think it would be welcomed by club players if promoted properly." That's a great suggestion. We can do it at underage in terms of challenge games why not at adult only a bit more organised?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:24:37
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Replying To tearintom: "Sure who said they have to play football?
Many of our inter county hurlers don't bother playing football anymore anyway since the split season came in, surely better for them to be hurling and letting their bodies take a break for a week or so rather than being flogged for 8 weeks straight with not a hurl picked up for a game for the next 6 months once they're done, how people think that's going to improve anyone is beyond me?" Most of our intercounty hurlers play club football also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:26:34
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Replying To tearintom: "If players or clubs want to concentrate more on one code over the other they have the opportunity to rest between rounds of championship rather than being flogged for 8 weeks straight." Most clubs first teams in both codes are made up of pretty much the same players. The only players that will have that luxury hurl or kick ball for 1 of only a handful of clubs. Hardly fair on the vast majority.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:35:50
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Replying To Viking66: "Most of our intercounty hurlers play club football also." Well less of them have been playing both since the split season came in but the point still remains.
The split season flogs the fella who wants to play both and also flogs the fella who only want to do one so essentially everyone gets flogged.
Go back to alternate two week blocks or a version of and give players more flexibility, more opportunity for rest and recovery and more opportunity to focus on one grade if he chooses to do so.
If a fella wants to play both he still can, if he feels he needs to take a break in one code or other he now can.
The split season was brought in to fix an issue that doesn't exist any more, it was worth a go to see hoe it worked out, time now to go back to a more sensible alternative and see how that goes.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 13/11/2023 15:43:13
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Replying To tearintom: "Well less of them have been playing both since the split season came in but the point still remains.
The split season flogs the fella who wants to play both and also flogs the fella who only want to do one so essentially everyone gets flogged.
Go back to alternate two week blocks or a version of and give players more flexibility, more opportunity for rest and recovery and more opportunity to focus on one grade if he chooses to do so.
If a fella wants to play both he still can, if he feels he needs to take a break in one code or other he now can.
The split season was brought in to fix an issue that doesn't exist any more, it was worth a go to see hoe it worked out, time now to go back to a more sensible alternative and see how that goes." But for the fella who wants to play both, as most club players in the county want, his hurling is not going to be as sharp if he's only doing a week of it then a weeks football. And vice versa. Players and clubs that prioritise one or the other, the minority in this county, will have an unfair advantage then. While the general standard will drop as most players hurling and football won't be as good if they are training in one one week and the other the next.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 15:55:56
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Replying To tearintom: "I thought the discussion in regards to next year's championship had been out off until January?
I think that's just for the league." Was having a look myself at the stuff sent out to clubs. And you're right - stuff to do with championship structure won't be decided on until January.
The Clongeen and Sarsfields motions would both link League and Championship - i.e. where you finished in League would determine where you'd start or how you'd be seeded for Championship.
So, seems that all that's going to be put to the floor at the November meeting about the Leagues is the question whether or not to allow discussion on linking League and Championship in the first place. And the Clongeen and Sarsfields motions have been included in the document just as examples of what that might look like.
If the vote is to allow discussion on linking League with Championship, those motions will then be fully considered at the January meeting to decide on Championship structures.
If the vote is that there should be no link between League and Championship, then those motions automatically fall, and will never be put to the floor at all.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2257 - 13/11/2023 15:56:54
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Replying To tearintom: "Well less of them have been playing both since the split season came in but the point still remains.
The split season flogs the fella who wants to play both and also flogs the fella who only want to do one so essentially everyone gets flogged.
Go back to alternate two week blocks or a version of and give players more flexibility, more opportunity for rest and recovery and more opportunity to focus on one grade if he chooses to do so.
If a fella wants to play both he still can, if he feels he needs to take a break in one code or other he now can.
The split season was brought in to fix an issue that doesn't exist any more, it was worth a go to see hoe it worked out, time now to go back to a more sensible alternative and see how that goes." Have disagreed with you on things before, but I agree with that last line.
The split season was introduced in response to Covid, and thankfully, that problem is longer with us. I think it's time to change to alternate weeks, or preferably alternate blocks. If nothing else, let's give it two or three years of the "alternate" way, and then have a think about it again.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2257 - 13/11/2023 16:01:23
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Have disagreed with you on things before, but I agree with that last line.
The split season was introduced in response to Covid, and thankfully, that problem is longer with us. I think it's time to change to alternate weeks, or preferably alternate blocks. If nothing else, let's give it two or three years of the "alternate" way, and then have a think about it again." Exactly, it's the most sensible approach in reality.
But unfortunately there's still this obsession with what others are doing! I honestly swear people just decide things not on the basis even of what works for them but what can hinder other clubs!
The fact is the championship standard has regressed under this system, flogging fellas for 8 weeks straight for one code followed by 5/6 months of nothing is helping no one, anyone with half a brain can see that. Now is the split season the main reason our championship standards have regressed, well, let's try something different and see. The reality is less players seem to be playing both codes anyway under the current system, particularly at the top county player level
I actually think a hybrid version would work best personally, see how it goes, alternate it for the group stages then play one code to completion followed by the other, best of both worlds.
Definitely worth a shot imho.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 13/11/2023 16:27:38
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Replying To tearintom: "Exactly, it's the most sensible approach in reality.
But unfortunately there's still this obsession with what others are doing! I honestly swear people just decide things not on the basis even of what works for them but what can hinder other clubs!
The fact is the championship standard has regressed under this system, flogging fellas for 8 weeks straight for one code followed by 5/6 months of nothing is helping no one, anyone with half a brain can see that. Now is the split season the main reason our championship standards have regressed, well, let's try something different and see. The reality is less players seem to be playing both codes anyway under the current system, particularly at the top county player level
I actually think a hybrid version would work best personally, see how it goes, alternate it for the group stages then play one code to completion followed by the other, best of both worlds.
Definitely worth a shot imho." Fully agree with you here
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 13/11/2023 16:45:11
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Replying To Afinestick: "Fully agree with you here" I agree with you on the format broadly - Say 3 weeks hurling, 3 football 2 hurling 2 football then play the hurling out to a close (would finish end September) and football to a close Finish mid October.
I take issue to the nonsense that having the Championship on week after week is Flogging lads.
1. every player knows that its easier and more enjoyable to be playing games than training - If ur in the thick of it ur basically playing your game and recovering midweek.
2. Managers have is sussed. the objective is top 4 in the group. so there will be games sacrifices or players rested to meet that. It's possibly the teams that are in danger of relegation that are under most pressure
3. only if you reach the final in both codes do you play every week. 60% of teams get 2 weekends off.
Players much happier to be playing than waiting around for a game
bystanderbill (Wexford) - Posts: 26 - 13/11/2023 17:00:15
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Have disagreed with you on things before, but I agree with that last line.
The split season was introduced in response to Covid, and thankfully, that problem is longer with us. I think it's time to change to alternate weeks, or preferably alternate blocks. If nothing else, let's give it two or three years of the "alternate" way, and then have a think about it again." Nobody is answering a fairly simple question? In what way will alternate weeks benefit most players, or most clubs, or the county teams?
Most players, by far a large majority, play both so they won't have any extra weeks off. Most clubs also play both, but will now be at a disadvantage against clubs that only play one, or have enough players to have largely seperate teams. And the players will still only have the same amount of training in each code as before, only it will be more haphazard as they will be jumping around between the 2 codes so won't play either as well. Hard to see how this will benefit the county teams either tbh.
Anyway back to the question at the start of this post-In what way will alternate weeks benefit most players, or most clubs, or the county teams?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12114 - 13/11/2023 17:22:08
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