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Wexford Club Hurling Championships 2023

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Replying To Viking66:  "How will Wexford hurling and football benefit from alternate weeks? The only people who will benefit from that are ones who don't have too many players playing both, or those that aren't really interested in both codes. The vast majority of club players in Wexford play both codes, and the standard would have to be worse if they have to alternate training week on week between what are 2 completely different sports with different skillsets. The general standard in both would have to be worse."
Totally disagree . Running off hurling and finishing it in August and then not starting football until end of August is not doing anything to improve the standard of either code in the county. We will have to go either alternate weeks or two weeks hurling /two weeks football in my opinion. We cant continue the way we are running them off

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 13/11/2023 12:50:00    2512689

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You lads make way too much of this tournament. It is a great tournament played at the worst time of year.
All hurling of worth is played in the summer.
Kilcormac had a back bone of u20 successful team. I had heard of half of those names. In Wexford the top players are across a large number of clubs.
The split season has to change but it will be this time next year when a hurling only club (or a team of players only focusing on hurling) wins a championship when the row will start about it.
The likes of Leinster hurling championships favour the teams of battlers and yesterday Kilcormac were both battlers and better hurlers. You win by a few points with battlers at this time of year, you win by a cricket score with both.
If the big men don't stand up at this time of year, or are marked out of the game, then you have no hope.

Another big problem in Wexford is lads looking for frees, falling over expecting one. Kilcormac were much better at engineering the frees because they were bigger, stronger. In Wexford, referres give those half fisted attempts but Sean Cleary didn't.

The problem in Wexford overall is there is Hurling 365 for the children, there is hurling 65 when it gets to adult level. That never will be enough.

I could never get why Wexford clubs could never make in roads in this competition. Even that great Oulart team only managed 1 title. 5 Dublin clubs (plus UCD) have won it but only 3 Wexford clubs? Crokes won it last year with a team of hurlers only. Maybe there is something there to look at.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1140 - 13/11/2023 12:51:49    2512691

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think it's as much to do with fixture arranging and timing, and referee availability, as much as burnout."
Yeah, it's to do with scheduling all right. When you get to about the middle of September, you can't play minor matches midweek any more, because the evenings aren't long enough. And it's not as simple as "just put them on in floodlit venues", because minor (like all underage) is run on a home/away basis right up to the finals. Also the impact that putting a match on in a floodlit venue like Taghmon or Bree or Craanford of Ferns would have on that club's own activities that evening, by way of training for their own matches.

Also the consideration that around the middle of September, some 18-year-olds will be heading away to college for the first time.

So, you're left with having to run minor matches at weekends, along with adult matches. And not as simple either as saying "just put the minor on Saturday, and the adult on Sunday". A club could be in a junior quarter-final (for example) on a Saturday and a senior quarter-final on a Sunday, and still have a minor match to play too, with maybe two of their minors part of the junior team, and another one part of their senior team. What do you then?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 13/11/2023 13:00:34    2512696

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Replying To wexfordwin:  "Offaly play minor at U17 which was how wexford had it. Why was it changed?"
Was changed basically because clubs regularly change their minds on what they want.

Whatever else about U17, the big advantage of it was that there was no issue with decoupling it from the adult grades.

But then it was felt that too many lads weren't getting enough games in their first year out of U17 (i.e. what would be their second year of U18), because they weren't yet ready for the adult grades. So, it was changed back to U18.

Now the argument is that too many lads of that age are well able for the adult grades, but aren't getting the opportunity to play them. It simply can't work both ways.

Nuclear option would be a rule where a player of that age can only play minor or adult in any given week. It would solve the scheduling difficulties....but then people wouldn't be happy with that either. "Not fair for the minors to have to line out without their best players if they choose the adult matches instead", and "not fair for the seniors, intermediates or juniors to have to line out without a good young player because the minors want him".

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 13/11/2023 13:08:14    2512700

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "You lads make way too much of this tournament. It is a great tournament played at the worst time of year.
All hurling of worth is played in the summer.
Kilcormac had a back bone of u20 successful team. I had heard of half of those names. In Wexford the top players are across a large number of clubs.
The split season has to change but it will be this time next year when a hurling only club (or a team of players only focusing on hurling) wins a championship when the row will start about it.
The likes of Leinster hurling championships favour the teams of battlers and yesterday Kilcormac were both battlers and better hurlers. You win by a few points with battlers at this time of year, you win by a cricket score with both.
If the big men don't stand up at this time of year, or are marked out of the game, then you have no hope.

Another big problem in Wexford is lads looking for frees, falling over expecting one. Kilcormac were much better at engineering the frees because they were bigger, stronger. In Wexford, referres give those half fisted attempts but Sean Cleary didn't.

The problem in Wexford overall is there is Hurling 365 for the children, there is hurling 65 when it gets to adult level. That never will be enough.

I could never get why Wexford clubs could never make in roads in this competition. Even that great Oulart team only managed 1 title. 5 Dublin clubs (plus UCD) have won it but only 3 Wexford clubs? Crokes won it last year with a team of hurlers only. Maybe there is something there to look at."
Totally agree . We will not progress in either code running our championships over 7/8 weeks each

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 13/11/2023 13:18:08    2512702

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See the proposals were emailed for next years championship, lot of reading so tried to summerise.

Clongeens proposal is a league based championship, 8 games 4 at home, 4 away, where you finish in the league seeds you in championship, then championship, 4 groups of 3, top 4 into quarters, 2nd play plays third in preliminary match, 4 losers into relegation semis.

Sarsfields
League 12 teams play 11 matches, same as above league position determines championship seeding, slightly different three groups of four group a is top 4 seeds from league and are already into quarter final, then top two teams from group b and group c. Bottom 2 from group b and C into relegation semi final.

Reasons
Allows a full year timetable to be set out. (eg championship always begins the weekend of All Ireland Football Final)
Allows intercountry players time to play with their club prior to championship.
All league games matter. This is not the case currently.
Teams are playing competitive games in June and July (currently 2/3 teams are not due to league structure)
Rewards good league performance but does not punish it. Any team relegated will have failed to qualify from group of 4. Then lost a relegation semi-final and final.
Requires 34 weekends for Hurling and Football. Beginning on 1st weekend of March finished mid-October. Can be shortened by running two rounds of fixtures mid-week June and/or Jul

Oulart The Ballaghs motion.
Basically they wants four groups of four for a league based competition to be called Wexford Club Championship. Top 2 into league quarter finals, bottom two into league relegation quarter finals. They want more time for Leinster Leagues etc.

Hurling Advisory Committee
Winners of each division receives home advantage for the first round of the championship.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 403 - 13/11/2023 13:18:14    2512703

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Lads blaming split season for being beat is laughable, in the last 20 odd years we won one Leinster title, and this year we were very close to being relegated, we don't have the hurlers unfortunately

Lockerroomboy (Wexford) - Posts: 442 - 13/11/2023 13:39:53    2512709

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what is the mechanism for changing the age eligibility rules for adult? Can this be changed at the vote of the clubs or is it a county board decision?

A lot of clubs would probably like to have their best 18yr olds available for the adult teams but in terms of solutions to fixtures and general competition structures to make it workable I wouldn't imagine that there are many suitable solutions.

I do agree in theory that 18 year olds should be allowed play adult but I also agree that many players are simply not up to the level of physical maturity or ability at 18 and need a proper programme of games for these players at minor level (u18). Can we have both?

ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 13/11/2023 13:54:45    2512711

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Replying To Afinestick:  "Totally disagree . Running off hurling and finishing it in August and then not starting football until end of August is not doing anything to improve the standard of either code in the county. We will have to go either alternate weeks or two weeks hurling /two weeks football in my opinion. We cant continue the way we are running them off"
Mixing sports each week or every two weeks will do nothing to improve standards I would say, probably make things worse if anything. All it will do is force the majority of clubs, and a lot of players, to commit to a single code, reducing playing numbers and competitiveness.

There needs to be a break after the championship group stages and again the week before the county final. I think that would allow injuries to clear and importantly generate some badly needed profile for the county finals. Something will have to give in the calendar most likely.

At a club league level, I think our county board reps should be pushing for leagues with clubs in neighbouring counties with likes of KK, Waterford etc without county players. I think it would be welcomed by club players if promoted properly.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 217 - 13/11/2023 13:55:16    2512712

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Wexford club hurling is of a similar standard to Carlow I would say.

We are miles off Kilkenny club hurling and it seems well below Offaly now aswel.

How lads think playing football 50% of their time is going to improve them as hurlers is beyond me.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 744 - 13/11/2023 13:58:34    2512713

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Replying To Lockerroomboy:  "Lads blaming split season for being beat is laughable, in the last 20 odd years we won one Leinster title, and this year we were very close to being relegated, we don't have the hurlers unfortunately"
Agree, sure our record before it is just as bad , bar an oulart team backboned by intercounty players In almost every line. People think concentrating on one code is the answer, not so sure. Buffers Alley and Rathnure both intermediate now. Shelmaliers somewhat competitive in Leinster and have inter county players all over the field, most of whom have senior hurling medals aswell. I think the culture in Wexford is wrong, I know In Dublin teams are so far ahead in S and C work, video analysis, drink bans( not saying this is the answer ) but then and again they have a lot more funding aswell

WexMurph (Wexford) - Posts: 171 - 13/11/2023 14:08:29    2512715

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "See the proposals were emailed for next years championship, lot of reading so tried to summerise.

Clongeens proposal is a league based championship, 8 games 4 at home, 4 away, where you finish in the league seeds you in championship, then championship, 4 groups of 3, top 4 into quarters, 2nd play plays third in preliminary match, 4 losers into relegation semis.

Sarsfields
League 12 teams play 11 matches, same as above league position determines championship seeding, slightly different three groups of four group a is top 4 seeds from league and are already into quarter final, then top two teams from group b and group c. Bottom 2 from group b and C into relegation semi final.

Reasons
Allows a full year timetable to be set out. (eg championship always begins the weekend of All Ireland Football Final)
Allows intercountry players time to play with their club prior to championship.
All league games matter. This is not the case currently.
Teams are playing competitive games in June and July (currently 2/3 teams are not due to league structure)
Rewards good league performance but does not punish it. Any team relegated will have failed to qualify from group of 4. Then lost a relegation semi-final and final.
Requires 34 weekends for Hurling and Football. Beginning on 1st weekend of March finished mid-October. Can be shortened by running two rounds of fixtures mid-week June and/or Jul

Oulart The Ballaghs motion.
Basically they wants four groups of four for a league based competition to be called Wexford Club Championship. Top 2 into league quarter finals, bottom two into league relegation quarter finals. They want more time for Leinster Leagues etc.

Hurling Advisory Committee
Winners of each division receives home advantage for the first round of the championship."
Is the existing structure going to be an option?

Not sure any of the above as summarised are an improvement or anything like it. Clongeen one seems the most reasonable but I feel clubs will be very wary of linking league with championship. Some clubs could be down up to 10 players due to u20/senior county hurling / football and then throw in a few absences / injuries and then a starting 15 is missing.

ontheball247 (UK) - Posts: 15 - 13/11/2023 14:09:17    2512716

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Isn't it great that so many of our players get to play and represent their clubs football and hurling. I'm sure it must be great to be able to do it.

Seems like it's supporters who are having the biggest issues and not the players.

Low2Joe (Wexford) - Posts: 48 - 13/11/2023 14:28:26    2512721

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Wexford club hurling is of a similar standard to Carlow I would say.

We are miles off Kilkenny club hurling and it seems well below Offaly now aswel.

How lads think playing football 50% of their time is going to improve them as hurlers is beyond me."
Sure who said they have to play football?

Many of our inter county hurlers don't bother playing football anymore anyway since the split season came in, surely better for them to be hurling and letting their bodies take a break for a week or so rather than being flogged for 8 weeks straight with not a hurl picked up for a game for the next 6 months once they're done, how people think that's going to improve anyone is beyond me?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1353 - 13/11/2023 14:47:44    2512727

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Wexford club hurling is of a similar standard to Carlow I would say.

We are miles off Kilkenny club hurling and it seems well below Offaly now aswel.

How lads think playing football 50% of their time is going to improve them as hurlers is beyond me."
There's 10 Senior teams in Offaly and 2 of them next year will be Kilcormac's 1st and 2nd teams, Kilcormac are excellent and look set to dominate up there but don't think it's accurate as a whole to say its ahead of the Wexford championship, last club meeting between the 2 counties 2 years ago Oylegate beat Clodiagh gaels 2-15 0-10 in Intermediate semi final. Carlow outside of Mullins and MLR is fairly moderate too.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 13/11/2023 14:49:48    2512728

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Replying To ontheball247:  "what is the mechanism for changing the age eligibility rules for adult? Can this be changed at the vote of the clubs or is it a county board decision?

A lot of clubs would probably like to have their best 18yr olds available for the adult teams but in terms of solutions to fixtures and general competition structures to make it workable I wouldn't imagine that there are many suitable solutions.

I do agree in theory that 18 year olds should be allowed play adult but I also agree that many players are simply not up to the level of physical maturity or ability at 18 and need a proper programme of games for these players at minor level (u18). Can we have both?"
Not having a pop at you - just using this as an example of what's often said, by all sorts of people - but asking "Can this be changed at the vote of the clubs or is it a county board decision?" shows the sort of misunderstanding/confusion that's out there all the time.

The County Board is the vote of the clubs. The County Board consists of one delegate from each active club (so 48 of them), along with the county officers (think there are 16 of those), and then District officers and representatives of another few organisations (like schools GAA). Think there are about 16 of those too.

But what people often mean when they say "the County Board" is in fact the management committee - i.e. the 16 or so officers at the top table.

Anyway, the vote on whether or not to allow such players to play at adult level will indeed be for the County Board - i.e. all the clubs will have a say. There's actually very little along those lines that the management committee has the power to decide themselves. Generally what happens is they make recommendations to County Board, and they're either approved or rejected.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 13/11/2023 14:50:51    2512730

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Replying To ontheball247:  "Is the existing structure going to be an option?

Not sure any of the above as summarised are an improvement or anything like it. Clongeen one seems the most reasonable but I feel clubs will be very wary of linking league with championship. Some clubs could be down up to 10 players due to u20/senior county hurling / football and then throw in a few absences / injuries and then a starting 15 is missing."
Sorry, meant to reply to this in my first post as well.

Yes, the existing structures (for both League and championship) are the fallback options. Basically how it works is that if none of the new proposals are approved, then nothing changes, and things instead stay as they are.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2258 - 13/11/2023 14:52:02    2512731

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What are the pairings in the premier u21 championship? Hopefully will be no weekends lost to the weather or else this could run into Christmas

btwex90 (Wexford) - Posts: 15 - 13/11/2023 14:56:41    2512733

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Wexford club hurling is of a similar standard to Carlow I would say.

We are miles off Kilkenny club hurling and it seems well below Offaly now aswel.

How lads think playing football 50% of their time is going to improve them as hurlers is beyond me."
We were always behind the top Offaly clubs. They have more club AIs than we do. Antrim do as well.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12120 - 13/11/2023 15:03:50    2512736

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Replying To Afinestick:  "Totally disagree . Running off hurling and finishing it in August and then not starting football until end of August is not doing anything to improve the standard of either code in the county. We will have to go either alternate weeks or two weeks hurling /two weeks football in my opinion. We cant continue the way we are running them off"
How would lads training football one week then hurling the next improve their standard at either? Please explain how you think this will improve anyones hurling or football!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12120 - 13/11/2023 15:06:05    2512737

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