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Any Innovative Ideas To Save The Provincial Championships

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Well - I did have an idea - but it didn't draw any traction on this forum - I briefly repeat as "MY PLAN" further below. But in keeping with more conventional reform - how about trying the "hurling" solution - in lieu of Munster/the Rest - have Ulster/the Rest (latter has Kerry & Dublin joining the Connacht Big 3). The Ulster 9 could either stay in tact or reduce to say 6 after 3 Prelim Rd ties. MY PLAN to save the Prov Chp KO is to have these pairings 'double up' as part of the AIC group phase (similar to the Triple Crown and Calcutta Cup as subsets to Six Nations Rugby). Say, draw the AIC 4 groups of 4 'early' after Prov QFs (played in Feb) - placing at most one SF from each Prov per group, and then placing all remaining Tier 1 teams in groups different to their opponents in Prov QFs & 1st Rd. Teams play a 12-match group/league phase season (crossover v all teams in other 3 groups). Four group winners and 4 other best records to AIC Playoffs (no automatic berths for Prov Champs, although they'd be expected to advance with a good record). Play Tier 2 Tailteann Cup 4x4 groups similarly (may include Prov SF teams). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2954 - 28/04/2023 17:26:52 2474430 Link
Replying To GaA247: "Does anyone have ideas to save the provincial championships or make them more competitive? Giving the lower division teams home advantage all the time? Seeding high profile matches in the first round? For example (Cork v Kerry, Mayo v Galway) Maybe even having 2 tier provincial championships? For example (Dublin Louth Kildare Westmeath tier 1 and other Leinster counties tier 2 Instead of lazily stating that the provincials are doomed, is there anything that could be done to save and improve them?" . . . but the provincial championships have never been that competitive. The importance of the provincial championship has been lessened over time with the qualifiers. Everyone would love to see the competitive football between the best teams that we get at the end of the championship now - but that will only happen in the provincial championship in rare occasions. We have a choice really - stick with something like we've got - warts and all; giving every county a chance of glory each year or remove the provinces completely and go to a hurling like compromised provincial structure where you could have an "Ulster Championship" (Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry, Donegal & Armagh) and a "Munster" championship (Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin & Kerry) To me a provincial championship is still something to win. Yes - another title might not mean that much to Kerry or to Dublin but a hard earned title in Ulster on Connaught is still something. If anyone can shock Dublin of Kerry in the next couple of weeks it will mean a hell of a lot to them. As a Leinsterman - the one change I'd make would be to remove home advantage from stronger teams - not necessarily home advantage to the lower division team but a neutral venue against a higher ranked team would be nice at least one a century. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 370 - 28/04/2023 17:37:23 2474432 Link
Separate them from the all Ireland series and make it so sronger counties (let's say division 1 teams) can only play their intermediate teams in the provincials. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 29/04/2023 08:05:23 2474461 Link
No Calving4Sam (Cavan) - Posts: 85 - 29/04/2023 09:03:37 2474465 Link
Replying To GaA247: "Does anyone have ideas to save the provincial championships or make them more competitive? Giving the lower division teams home advantage all the time? Seeding high profile matches in the first round? For example (Cork v Kerry, Mayo v Galway) Maybe even having 2 tier provincial championships? For example (Dublin Louth Kildare Westmeath tier 1 and other Leinster counties tier 2 Instead of lazily stating that the provincials are doomed, is there anything that could be done to save and improve them?" What do you mean save them? There are two big games in Ulster this weekend. Ask any of those four counties do the provincial championships matter. Did they matter in Roscommon last week? Sligo will be really looking forward to taking Galway on. There will be a big crowd in Croker tomorrow. Louth is buzzing and I am sure Offaly is the same because a place in the provincial final matters. What awaits is formidable to say the least. Did you see the delight in Ennis when Clare beat Cork? Down, Offaly and Kildare are all fighting for a place in the Sam Maguire over the weekend. If results go against Kildare and Cork they are both out of Sam. Louth are fighting for a place in pot two. Save the provincial championships my ae. They are alive and well. They need to look at the groups in the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cups. Three qualifying from each group is wrong. It should be two. Greengrass (Louth)** - Posts: 6147 - 29/04/2023 10:51:56 2474478 Link
Tell Croke Park to take a hike. points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 282 - 29/04/2023 11:18:35 2474485 Link
Replying To omahant: "Well - I did have an idea - but it didn't draw any traction on this forum - I briefly repeat as "MY PLAN" further below. But in keeping with more conventional reform - how about trying the "hurling" solution - in lieu of Munster/the Rest - have Ulster/the Rest (latter has Kerry & Dublin joining the Connacht Big 3). The Ulster 9 could either stay in tact or reduce to say 6 after 3 Prelim Rd ties. MY PLAN to save the Prov Chp KO is to have these pairings 'double up' as part of the AIC group phase (similar to the Triple Crown and Calcutta Cup as subsets to Six Nations Rugby). Say, draw the AIC 4 groups of 4 'early' after Prov QFs (played in Feb) - placing at most one SF from each Prov per group, and then placing all remaining Tier 1 teams in groups different to their opponents in Prov QFs & 1st Rd. Teams play a 12-match group/league phase season (crossover v all teams in other 3 groups). Four group winners and 4 other best records to AIC Playoffs (no automatic berths for Prov Champs, although they'd be expected to advance with a good record). Play Tier 2 Tailteann Cup 4x4 groups similarly (may include Prov SF teams)." That should read ......at most one SF "team"...... omahant (USA) - Posts: 2954 - 29/04/2023 14:10:11 2474509 Link
Replying To brianb: ". . . but the provincial championships have never been that competitive. The importance of the provincial championship has been lessened over time with the qualifiers. Everyone would love to see the competitive football between the best teams that we get at the end of the championship now - but that will only happen in the provincial championship in rare occasions. We have a choice really - stick with something like we've got - warts and all; giving every county a chance of glory each year or remove the provinces completely and go to a hurling like compromised provincial structure where you could have an "Ulster Championship" (Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry, Donegal & Armagh) and a "Munster" championship (Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin & Kerry) To me a provincial championship is still something to win. Yes - another title might not mean that much to Kerry or to Dublin but a hard earned title in Ulster on Connaught is still something. If anyone can shock Dublin of Kerry in the next couple of weeks it will mean a hell of a lot to them. As a Leinsterman - the one change I'd make would be to remove home advantage from stronger teams - not necessarily home advantage to the lower division team but a neutral venue against a higher ranked team would be nice at least one a century." Take all the games out of Croker except the final. Home advantage to the preliminary round winners and the lowest ranked team of the two who are already seeded. Portlaoise for the semis or another venue if Laois are playing. My mad idea would be take the final out of Croke Park as well. Leinster really needs a 30 to 40k ground for finals. Nowlan Park is currently the biggest. Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 746 - 29/04/2023 15:52:36 2474534 Link
This applies across the board, but play the games in smaller venues where possible. The GAAs habit of putting games with small crowds into huge stadia like thurles and Croker does my head in, and kills the atmosphere. It looks awful. Galway uniteds home game last night drew a crowd that's probably only going to be half the size of the Connacht final yet because it was in Terryland the atmosphere will be way better., and the punters probably enjoyed it more than they would have in a 3/4 empty Pearse stadium. Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 29/04/2023 18:20:29 2474547 Link
Replying To Galway9801: "This applies across the board, but play the games in smaller venues where possible. The GAAs habit of putting games with small crowds into huge stadia like thurles and Croker does my head in, and kills the atmosphere. It looks awful. Galway uniteds home game last night drew a crowd that's probably only going to be half the size of the Connacht final yet because it was in Terryland the atmosphere will be way better., and the punters probably enjoyed it more than they would have in a 3/4 empty Pearse stadium." I'm in Croker today and we're having a great day. It's the only place to be on a championship day. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6147 - 30/04/2023 17:14:03 2474743 Link
Kildare 0-12 - 0-14 Dublin GaA247 (Cork) - Posts: 58 - 30/04/2023 19:53:33 2474805 Link
Another mass? ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1266 - 30/04/2023 20:03:43 2474810 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "I'm in Croker today and we're having a great day. It's the only place to be on a championship day." Each to their own. I was at nowlan park today, great game and the atmosphere there surpassed many games I've been to at Croker. What would have been wrong with a smaller stadium for your game? Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 30/04/2023 20:24:42 2474815 Link
Replying To Galway9801: "Each to their own. I was at nowlan park today, great game and the atmosphere there surpassed many games I've been to at Croker. What would have been wrong with a smaller stadium for your game?" Yep Kildare v Dublin in Tullamore would have made it more of an occasion. Louth/Offaly in Portlaoise. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2009 - 30/04/2023 20:31:22 2474816 Link
Replying To Galway9801: "Each to their own. I was at nowlan park today, great game and the atmosphere there surpassed many games I've been to at Croker. What would have been wrong with a smaller stadium for your game?" As you said each to their own. What's wrong with playing the big games on the big stage? Players love playing in Croke Park. We had a great day yesterday. I see someone suggested playing Louth v Offaly in Portlaoise. No offence to Portlaoise but give me Croke Park any day of the week. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6147 - 01/05/2023 11:33:05 2474884 Link
Replying To brianb: ". . . but the provincial championships have never been that competitive. The importance of the provincial championship has been lessened over time with the qualifiers. Everyone would love to see the competitive football between the best teams that we get at the end of the championship now - but that will only happen in the provincial championship in rare occasions. We have a choice really - stick with something like we've got - warts and all; giving every county a chance of glory each year or remove the provinces completely and go to a hurling like compromised provincial structure where you could have an "Ulster Championship" (Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry, Donegal & Armagh) and a "Munster" championship (Galway, Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin & Kerry) To me a provincial championship is still something to win. Yes - another title might not mean that much to Kerry or to Dublin but a hard earned title in Ulster on Connaught is still something. If anyone can shock Dublin of Kerry in the next couple of weeks it will mean a hell of a lot to them. As a Leinsterman - the one change I'd make would be to remove home advantage from stronger teams - not necessarily home advantage to the lower division team but a neutral venue against a higher ranked team would be nice at least one a century." How the SHC solution - In lieu of Munster and "the Rest as Leinster" - have Ulster 5 and "the Rest as Connacht 5" (latter has Kerry, Dublin & Connacht Big 3; the former has Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan & Donegal). Tier 2 could also have an Ulster 5 (incl London) and a Rest 5; Tier 3 with a North 6 / South 6. omahant (USA) - Posts: 2954 - 01/05/2023 17:43:15 2474925 Link
Like said, having finals in smaller grounds would help atmosphere imho. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2584 - 01/05/2023 19:00:33 2474930 Link
Replying To galwayford: "Like said, having finals in smaller grounds would help atmosphere imho." We'll agree to disagree. Finals in smaller venues? Croke Park was never intended to be an ornament. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6147 - 02/05/2023 16:42:28 2475178 Link
Replying To galwayford: "Like said, having finals in smaller grounds would help atmosphere imho." Problem isn't that the ground is too big, it's that no one is going to the games. 15 years ago a Leinster final could be close to a sell out. People are finally voting with their feet on a meaningless competition and a sport that is becoming less and less entertaining. Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 523 - 02/05/2023 17:05:26 2475191 Link
Replying To Greenfield: "Problem isn't that the ground is too big, it's that no one is going to the games. 15 years ago a Leinster final could be close to a sell out. People are finally voting with their feet on a meaningless competition and a sport that is becoming less and less entertaining." There was plenty of entertainment in Croke Park on Sunday. The first game was a thriller from start to finish. The second was less entertaining but it was a tight contest. I remember well the days of sellouts for Leinster finals. That was destroyed when the GAA led by Sean Kelly provided additional game's development funding to Dublin. I think Dublin might be declining as a team but almost two decades of dominance has hugely undermined the other ten competing counties. That being said anyone who thinks Leinster is a meaningless competition should have been in Croke Park last Sunday to see what it meant to the competing counties most especially Louth, Offaly and Kildare. Dublin didn't want to lose either. There will be a huge Louth contingent in Croke Park on Sunday week. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6147 - 02/05/2023 18:39:57 2475235 Link