National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Canuck:  "Waterford will start their hurling championship in July. Will be finished in September as they play every week. Then the champions have to wait at least 7 weeks until November waiting for Munster opposition. The footballers will not kick a ball until the hurling is done and we expect to get players to play and improve our standard. This split season is a joke and I don't believe the b. s. That everyone prefers it. If you are dominantly a football club getting screwed over. If you are dominantly a hurling club injuries with a condensed schedule and too hurt to play football if a dual club."
In fairness, that's a different sort of 'split season', which we operated in Wexford for a couple of years too - all the club hurling championships going first, followed by all the club football championships.

We changed it back last year, such that the hurling & football championships now alternate every couple of weekends. It's in Waterford's power to change their own championships to a different system too.

The club championships hurling/football "split season" is a whole different issue and a whole different argument to the split season between inter-county competitions and club competitions.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 13/06/2025 10:28:33    2617129

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Sorry, I meant breaks in the inter county season to allow for club activity.

Like a quick guide of what I'm thinking.

National league starts in February it's played something like:
Week 1:NFL1
Week 2: NFL2
Week 3: Break
Week 4: NFL 3
Week 5: NFL4
Week 6: Club Window 1
Week 7: Club Window 2
Week 8: NFL5
Week 9: NFL6
Week 10: Club Window 3
Week 11: Club Window 4
Week 12: NFL7
Week 13: NFL finals
Week 14: Club Window 5
Week 15: Club Window 6
Week 16-21: Provincial Championship
Week 22: Club Window 7
Week 23: Club Window 8
Week 24-32: All Ireland Series

The inter county season ends 5 or 6 weeks later but we've had 8 rounds of club action (4 per code) in that time at have had fewer dead weeks when the weather is at it's best.

There's even further gains to be had if National League and Provincials could be played in parallel."
The National League and Provincials really should be played together. If we had the Provincial Finalists known before the final round of the league - it would add some final day spice in Division 2/3 as teams participation in the All Ireland series would be at stake.

I'd much prefer a sensible approach to fixtures scheduling taken like you outlined. You can have certainty of scheduling without the split season. This certainty was introduced by the "finish on the day" approach to games rather than the split season.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 461 - 13/06/2025 10:31:52    2617132

Link

Replying To lilywhite1:  "Prior to the so called split season the majority
of players in every county knew when their championship would start.
Even now during the 'split season' club football and hurling leagues run in tandem with inter County league and championships. The only thing that the 'split season' has done is condensed the season to the detriment of player welfare and prevents us from enjoying games at the height of the summer.
It's time that the farce of the so called split season was addressed. One of the objectives of the split season was for the All-Ireland club championships to be finished in the calendar year. It still hasn't happened."
Yes, they knew when it would be starting. Problem was they never knew when it would continue.

For example, I've looked back at results/fixtures here in Wexford over the period 2012 to 2019. 2012 was when we introduced our system of two groups of six in all grades in both codes (such that each team gets five group games), and 2019 was the last year before Covid and the split season being introduced. All the time, the players knew the club championships would start in April, but they never knew when there'd be games after that, because it all depended on how our county teams progressed. Here's how it panned out:

- April: Either two or three games played every year.
- May: Two years, no game. Two years, one game. Three years, two games. One year, three games.
- June: Three of those years saw a match played in June. Two years, early June. Other year, last weekend of June.
- July: In six of those years, one match in July, at different times between first weekend and last weekend.

And then things got going in earnest each August, but in different ways too. Sometimes, midweek matches were needed to get the championship programme completed on time. One year, my own club played four matches in eleven days - hurling Wednesday, hurling Sunday, football Wednesday, football Saturday.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 13/06/2025 10:39:29    2617136

Link

Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yes, they knew when it would be starting. Problem was they never knew when it would continue.

For example, I've looked back at results/fixtures here in Wexford over the period 2012 to 2019. 2012 was when we introduced our system of two groups of six in all grades in both codes (such that each team gets five group games), and 2019 was the last year before Covid and the split season being introduced. All the time, the players knew the club championships would start in April, but they never knew when there'd be games after that, because it all depended on how our county teams progressed. Here's how it panned out:

- April: Either two or three games played every year.
- May: Two years, no game. Two years, one game. Three years, two games. One year, three games.
- June: Three of those years saw a match played in June. Two years, early June. Other year, last weekend of June.
- July: In six of those years, one match in July, at different times between first weekend and last weekend.

And then things got going in earnest each August, but in different ways too. Sometimes, midweek matches were needed to get the championship programme completed on time. One year, my own club played four matches in eleven days - hurling Wednesday, hurling Sunday, football Wednesday, football Saturday."
. . . and this year "Club championships are expected to commence approximately two weeks after both Wexford senior hurlers & footballers exit from their inter-county campaigns."

Certainty?

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 461 - 13/06/2025 13:44:20    2617189

Link

Replying To brianb:  ". . . and this year "Club championships are expected to commence approximately two weeks after both Wexford senior hurlers & footballers exit from their inter-county campaigns."

Certainty?"
Again, that's an issue of the Wexford county board rather than the split season.
Galway club football championship starts the first weekend in August, as it has since the split season began. The only change is if Galway get to the all-Ireland final, this gets kicked out 2 weeks. We've known the schedule and possible change since the start of the year, so lads can plan their lives around this.

Ciaran359 (Galway) - Posts: 29 - 13/06/2025 16:18:19    2617234

Link

Replying To brianb:  ". . . and this year "Club championships are expected to commence approximately two weeks after both Wexford senior hurlers & footballers exit from their inter-county campaigns."

Certainty?"
Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.

There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.

There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.

In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.

Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".

More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".

But there was certainty all right.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 13/06/2025 21:33:10    2617281

Link

Replying To Ciaran359:  "Again, that's an issue of the Wexford county board rather than the split season.
Galway club football championship starts the first weekend in August, as it has since the split season began. The only change is if Galway get to the all-Ireland final, this gets kicked out 2 weeks. We've known the schedule and possible change since the start of the year, so lads can plan their lives around this."
You could have that level of certainty without a split season.

The qualifiers were the main thing that needed to be done away with because county fixtures couldn't be set in stone, they can be now.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4572 - 14/06/2025 09:07:06    2617304

Link

Intermingling inter county and club season is pie in the sky. April was a club only month. County players were under pressure from county managers to be available for training etc. The GPA are overwhelmingly in favour of the split season. They can focus on one and then the other without those pressures.
The crux of the talks really will be can the intercounty season possibly extend to the two weekends after the August Bank Holiday for the hurling and football finals? It would require the remaining weekends until Christmas being sufficient for county championships and provincial club championships. That's 17 or 18 weekends depending on the year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8938 - 14/06/2025 11:25:25    2617315

Link

Replying To Ciaran359:  "Again, that's an issue of the Wexford county board rather than the split season.
Galway club football championship starts the first weekend in August, as it has since the split season began. The only change is if Galway get to the all-Ireland final, this gets kicked out 2 weeks. We've known the schedule and possible change since the start of the year, so lads can plan their lives around this."
Galway have always had more time to start later as they don't start Provincial Championships until later. Especially in Hurling.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16307 - 14/06/2025 14:49:19    2617355

Link

Replying To brianb:  ". . . and this year "Club championships are expected to commence approximately two weeks after both Wexford senior hurlers & footballers exit from their inter-county campaigns."

Certainty?"
Yes certainly certainty. Our club championships are guaranteed to start no earlier than the 28th June this year, so as a player you can finish up a soccer season or exams, and/or go travelling or on holiday, and know you don't have any championship games until that date. While you might have a few weeks waiting depending on intercounty teams, you can train and play challenge games. Then you also have certainty that when you actually start you won't be sitting around for any period, the club championships will be played until their conclusions. What's so hard to understand about that?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16307 - 14/06/2025 14:56:40    2617358

Link

Replying To brianb:  ". . . and this year "Club championships are expected to commence approximately two weeks after both Wexford senior hurlers & footballers exit from their inter-county campaigns."

Certainty?"
Yes certainly certainty. Our club championships are guaranteed to start no earlier than the 28th June this year, so as a player you can finish up a soccer season or exams, and/or go travelling or on holiday, and know you don't have any championship games until that date. While you might have a few weeks waiting depending on intercounty teams, you can train and play challenge games. Then you also have certainty that when you actually start you won't be sitting around for any period, the club championships will be played until their conclusions. What's so hard to understand about that?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16307 - 14/06/2025 14:56:47    2617359

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "You could have that level of certainty without a split season.

The qualifiers were the main thing that needed to be done away with because county fixtures couldn't be set in stone, they can be now."
Yes but you are now asking club players to play a season that lasts up to 10 months and maintain themselves in peak shape for all of that time, and when they can't take a holiday, go travelling or play other sports. That's not the sort of certainty any club player wants.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16307 - 14/06/2025 14:59:50    2617360

Link

Replying To legendzxix:  "Intermingling inter county and club season is pie in the sky. April was a club only month. County players were under pressure from county managers to be available for training etc. The GPA are overwhelmingly in favour of the split season. They can focus on one and then the other without those pressures.
The crux of the talks really will be can the intercounty season possibly extend to the two weekends after the August Bank Holiday for the hurling and football finals? It would require the remaining weekends until Christmas being sufficient for county championships and provincial club championships. That's 17 or 18 weekends depending on the year."
I don't think it's pie in the sky.

If you'd said 20 years ago that there'd be a split season and July All Ireland finals no one would have believed you.

Going back to intermingled inter county and club is a way smaller change than that.

The April club only month is very different from a 2 week club break.

The inter county players probably benefit from a bit of rest.

I really think it's a joke the time that's getting allocated to clubs right now. Motions to inter mingle the season are getting through Dublin county boards. Not a small constituency by any means so I'd say any idea of their being consensus on this is actually only seeing what you want to see.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4572 - 14/06/2025 15:03:36    2617363

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Yes but you are now asking club players to play a season that lasts up to 10 months and maintain themselves in peak shape for all of that time, and when they can't take a holiday, go travelling or play other sports. That's not the sort of certainty any club player wants."
Ah come on not really.

Players have a big game to peak for every 4 weeks. That's really pretty enjoyable. We used to do that when I played in Meath and we'd 5 group games. Those few weeks in prep for the championship were great.

Having them more spaced out also meant that fringe players could get a chance to get back in if they'd lost their spot.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4572 - 14/06/2025 16:48:52    2617380

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Ah come on not really.

Players have a big game to peak for every 4 weeks. That's really pretty enjoyable. We used to do that when I played in Meath and we'd 5 group games. Those few weeks in prep for the championship were great.

Having them more spaced out also meant that fringe players could get a chance to get back in if they'd lost their spot."
Take it you weren't a dual player then?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16307 - 14/06/2025 19:20:48    2617435

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "Ah come on not really.

Players have a big game to peak for every 4 weeks. That's really pretty enjoyable. We used to do that when I played in Meath and we'd 5 group games. Those few weeks in prep for the championship were great.

Having them more spaced out also meant that fringe players could get a chance to get back in if they'd lost their spot."
The GPA and club players are happy with the current split season. Pointless bringing in change just for the sake of it. The real discussion point is can the inter county season expand by 3 weeks. I think it can. Whether people agree with Jarlath Burns or not, it requires solutions and there are solutions.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8938 - 14/06/2025 19:59:19    2617448

Link