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Replying To Viking66: "Take it you weren't a dual player then?" I can understand why you are saying what you are saying though.
Wexford actually do guarantee an ok championship in each code. Minimum of 6 games, in hurling they could play up to 9 games. That's a fine season, it's actually not possible in all counties.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4588 - 15/06/2025 11:13:31
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Replying To brianb: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16410 - 15/06/2025 11:17:20
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Replying To brianb: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4588 - 15/06/2025 11:24:08
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Replying To Whammo86: " Replying To brianb: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16410 - 15/06/2025 15:18:50
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Whammo86: "[quote=brianb: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
The thing about it is that Wexford being close to Dublin makes it easier for them to have the odd mid week game.
If you had to run all your rounds at the weekend you'd be going to the 3rd weekend in November, there's only 5 weeks until Christmas then and not enough time to run off Leinster club championships in 2 codes.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4588 - 15/06/2025 16:00:18
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To brianb: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
It does make sense though - no point in not playing over the summer as is happening with the split season in most other counties.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 479 - 15/06/2025 17:58:16
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The GAA have two choices going forward, especially of the go down the road of extending the county season again.
1. Move the provincial and all ireland club matches
2027 county club championships - August to December (hurling & football)
A club what wins a 2027 county title - you get a bye to your county q finals in 2028.
interprovincial club championship (drawn from 2027 club champions) starts in August 2028.
All Ireland club finals in October 2028.
County finals in November/December - depending on how the county wants to run it.
Counties can then set up their own club championship to suit themselves and have 4 months to play.
All they have to give up is allowing the defending champions a chance to win the provincial club by giving them late entry to the later knock out rounds of the county championships.
For example
Wexford (longest club championship in country) can play away, add an additional team to the group stage. Allow the top 7 from the group stage progress and let the previous years champs enter at qfinals, after their county champs exit the Leinster club competition.
A far better system then the current one, where a successful club who progresses to the All ireland series has to train all winter and then the following summer without any break.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1471 - 16/06/2025 12:49:59
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Replying To brianb: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=brianb: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Yes, there was certainty, despite how whoever wrote that line being quoted was guilty of wording it a bit clumsily.
There was a master club fixtures calendar put out back in early February that set out when club championships would start, based on several different scenarios, e.g.:
- if our senior hurlers went out in an All-Ireland quarter-final and our footballers didn't reach the latter stages of TC
- if our senior hurlers didn't reach that stage and our footballers went out early too
- if our hurlers went out early and our footballers got to TC semi-final
- if our hurlers went further and our footballers went out early
- and so on.
There was even the optimistic scenario of how club championships would be affected if our hurlers happened to reach the All-Ireland Final. Overall, it allowed for every possible set of circumstances. And in all bar one of those circumstances, the start date for the club championships would be two weekends after the second of the inter-county teams went out of their championship.
In just one set of circumstances, the club championship would have to start midweek - so 10 or 11 days after the relevant county side lost.
Hence the clumsily-worded "expected to commence approximately two weeks after".
More the case that "will commence two weeks after, barring one particular set of circumstances, in which case one and a half weeks after".
But there was certainty all right." A lot of ifs and buts there for something so certain."
It does make sense though - no point in not playing over the summer as is happening with the split season in most other counties."]Absolutely. You have counties with big clubs who have players away on J1s, and won't let the championships start til they get back. Here lads go on J1s, but the clubs know they won't have them for the 1st few rounds. If the AI finals get pushed back a few weeks these lads will miss less rounds. One of the things the CPA wanted was to try get more club games in the summer, not March or April followed by Oct/Nov/Dec.
The way we are going at the minute pushing back the AI finals isn't going to make a huge difference to when our club championships start anyway :-D
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16410 - 16/06/2025 13:32:16
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On the Wexford championships start date thing - maybe I was so enthusiastic to show how well set-out it was, that I over-complicated it. Bottom line is this:
It was known since the start of the year that championships would begin on weekend of June 27 unless:
- hurlers reach but lose All-Ireland quarter-final, or footballers reach but lose Tailteann semi-final, or both - then would start on weekend of July 4.
- hurlers but lose All-Ireland semi-final, or footballers reach Tailteann Cup Final - then would start on weekend of July 18.
- hurlers reach All-Ireland Final (optimistic!) - championships to start on August Bank Holiday weekend. Special meeting to be held to decide whether to stick with our current format (and not be finished in time for Leinster Club Championships) or change to a different system that would take fewer rounds of games to complete.
And before anybody makes a meal or a mountain of that last one - since voting in 2022 to go back to our structures of two groups of six in every grade, clubs have been told every year that this is a decision that will have to be made if we ever do reach an All-Ireland Final. But like I said, in the current circumstances, that's optimistic. Unfortunately!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 17/06/2025 15:30:24
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Replying To Pikeman96: "On the Wexford championships start date thing - maybe I was so enthusiastic to show how well set-out it was, that I over-complicated it. Bottom line is this:
It was known since the start of the year that championships would begin on weekend of June 27 unless:
- hurlers reach but lose All-Ireland quarter-final, or footballers reach but lose Tailteann semi-final, or both - then would start on weekend of July 4.
- hurlers but lose All-Ireland semi-final, or footballers reach Tailteann Cup Final - then would start on weekend of July 18.
- hurlers reach All-Ireland Final (optimistic!) - championships to start on August Bank Holiday weekend. Special meeting to be held to decide whether to stick with our current format (and not be finished in time for Leinster Club Championships) or change to a different system that would take fewer rounds of games to complete.
And before anybody makes a meal or a mountain of that last one - since voting in 2022 to go back to our structures of two groups of six in every grade, clubs have been told every year that this is a decision that will have to be made if we ever do reach an All-Ireland Final. But like I said, in the current circumstances, that's optimistic. Unfortunately!" That's a sensible approach to be able to change formats if necessary.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4588 - 17/06/2025 17:13:17
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Replying To Pikeman96: "On the Wexford championships start date thing - maybe I was so enthusiastic to show how well set-out it was, that I over-complicated it. Bottom line is this:
It was known since the start of the year that championships would begin on weekend of June 27 unless:
- hurlers reach but lose All-Ireland quarter-final, or footballers reach but lose Tailteann semi-final, or both - then would start on weekend of July 4.
- hurlers but lose All-Ireland semi-final, or footballers reach Tailteann Cup Final - then would start on weekend of July 18.
- hurlers reach All-Ireland Final (optimistic!) - championships to start on August Bank Holiday weekend. Special meeting to be held to decide whether to stick with our current format (and not be finished in time for Leinster Club Championships) or change to a different system that would take fewer rounds of games to complete.
And before anybody makes a meal or a mountain of that last one - since voting in 2022 to go back to our structures of two groups of six in every grade, clubs have been told every year that this is a decision that will have to be made if we ever do reach an All-Ireland Final. But like I said, in the current circumstances, that's optimistic. Unfortunately!" Pikeman - don't get me wrong, I think what Wexford are doing is quiet sensible given the current championship dates.
I also believe that the same certainly could be given if All Ireland finals were played a month later or even in the traditional September slots.
The split season is given as the answer to stopping games being moved at the last minute. I think dropping replays have done most of the heavy lifting here.
Looking back to the 2015 season - only 6 football counties and 4 hurling counties were still in the championship after the August Bank holiday weekend. The big issue I could see then was that quarter finals and semi finals were spread over 2 weekends - effectively block booking a month with uncertainty of when a county team might play. Cleaning that up along with stopping replays would have achieved the same certainly as the split season.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 479 - 17/06/2025 22:09:30
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If the August Bank Holiday weekend is taken as the first weekend of August, including when August 1st is a Monday:
Using FRC speak - the North Star should be:
August Weekend 2: All Ireland Hurling Final
August Weekend 3: All Ireland Football Final
...
At least 17 weekends for club county and provincial championships.
...
January Weekend 1: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Semi Finals
January Weekend 3: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Finals
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8971 - 18/06/2025 08:37:51
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Replying To legendzxix: "If the August Bank Holiday weekend is taken as the first weekend of August, including when August 1st is a Monday:
Using FRC speak - the North Star should be:
August Weekend 2: All Ireland Hurling Final
August Weekend 3: All Ireland Football Final
...
At least 17 weekends for club county and provincial championships.
...
January Weekend 1: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Semi Finals
January Weekend 3: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Finals" There's 7 rounds between Leinster club football and hurling.
You're not even giving club players the 6 weekends per code with that proposal.
Ok you can work in stuff like byes for All Ireland finalists but it just seems so unsatisfactory how little time is being dedicated to the club game and that another 3 weeks of the prime playing period is going to the county game. It was already unbalanced enough in that regard.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4588 - 18/06/2025 13:34:21
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@legendzxix - at least 17 weekends for something that currently takes at least 20 rounds of matches in just about all circumstances.
Consider a county that can run off its own championships in 12 rounds:
- 12 rounds for county championships
- Plus up to 7 for provincial championships (Leinster)
- Plus possible All-Ireland quarter-final (in Junior grades)
- Plus All-Ireland semi-finals
- Plus All-Ireland Final
There's 22 rounds of games.
And that's before you even consider how you'd be expecting clubs who go deep in provincial/All-Ireland competitions to play just about every week in December and into January.....
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 18/06/2025 14:46:46
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@Pikeman96, first of all it is impressive that Wexford complete both championships in 12 weekends.
The provincial championships should be completed in 6 weekends. As a maximum of 4 counties can make All Ireland finals, county championships should provisionally be pencilled in for the weekend after the football semi finals. Counties making the finals then having their county winners of that code entering provincial club at a later stage.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8971 - 18/06/2025 20:46:21
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Replying To legendzxix: "@Pikeman96, first of all it is impressive that Wexford complete both championships in 12 weekends.
The provincial championships should be completed in 6 weekends. As a maximum of 4 counties can make All Ireland finals, county championships should provisionally be pencilled in for the weekend after the football semi finals. Counties making the finals then having their county winners of that code entering provincial club at a later stage." Think you are forgetting there are 12 counties in Leinster when you say Provincial Championships should be doable in 6 weekends.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16410 - 18/06/2025 22:29:11
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Replying To legendzxix: "@Pikeman96, first of all it is impressive that Wexford complete both championships in 12 weekends.
The provincial championships should be completed in 6 weekends. As a maximum of 4 counties can make All Ireland finals, county championships should provisionally be pencilled in for the weekend after the football semi finals. Counties making the finals then having their county winners of that code entering provincial club at a later stage." We in Wexford don't complete our championships in 12 weekends. Our structures take 17 rounds of games (nine in hurling, eight in football). Note that I'm saying "rounds" rather than "weekends" to allow for the possibility of midweek games when required.
But anyway, I just chose not to use us with our 17 rounds in the example above, because we're an outlier that way. I instead used a hypothetical county who can do it in 12.
And still, an issue with your suggestion is how there'd be matches of some sort fixed for just about every weekend in December and into January (presume you'd give them Christmas/New Year week off!). You're likely to lose at least one weekend due to bad weather, and pitches likely to be in poor condition for many of the matches that do go ahead.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 18/06/2025 23:21:16
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Replying To Viking66: "Think you are forgetting there are 12 counties in Leinster when you say Provincial Championships should be doable in 6 weekends." The 2024 Leinster Senior Club Hurling Championship took place over 3 consecutive weekends: 17th, 24th and 30th of November. The 2024 Leinster Senior Club Football Championship took place over 5 weekends: 3rd, 10th, 17th, 23rd and 30th of November.
There were 13 weekends from the start of August to the end of October. For people open to working for solutions it is possible to have a national 12 weekend framework for county championships. Counties can fit it more rounds or start earlier if they wish but for national fixture making, a 12 weekend framework.
Leinster have shown that provincial championships can be complete in 5 weekends for the biggest province. The All Ireland hurling club semi finals can move to the start of January.
The following North Star is possible:
August Weekend 2: All Ireland Hurling Final
August Weekend 3: All Ireland Football Final
...
At least 17, if not 18, weekends for club county and provincial championships.
...
January Weekend 1: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Semi Finals
January Weekend 3: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Finals
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8971 - 19/06/2025 07:29:47
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Replying To legendzxix: "The 2024 Leinster Senior Club Hurling Championship took place over 3 consecutive weekends: 17th, 24th and 30th of November. The 2024 Leinster Senior Club Football Championship took place over 5 weekends: 3rd, 10th, 17th, 23rd and 30th of November.
There were 13 weekends from the start of August to the end of October. For people open to working for solutions it is possible to have a national 12 weekend framework for county championships. Counties can fit it more rounds or start earlier if they wish but for national fixture making, a 12 weekend framework.
Leinster have shown that provincial championships can be complete in 5 weekends for the biggest province. The All Ireland hurling club semi finals can move to the start of January.
The following North Star is possible:
August Weekend 2: All Ireland Hurling Final
August Weekend 3: All Ireland Football Final
...
At least 17, if not 18, weekends for club county and provincial championships.
...
January Weekend 1: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Semi Finals
January Weekend 3: All Ireland Club Hurling & Football Finals" 17 or 18 weekends isn't enough for club and Provincial Championships with Xmas etc if you are in Leinster.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16410 - 19/06/2025 11:23:23
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Replying To Whammo86: "There's 7 rounds between Leinster club football and hurling.
You're not even giving club players the 6 weekends per code with that proposal.
Ok you can work in stuff like byes for All Ireland finalists but it just seems so unsatisfactory how little time is being dedicated to the club game and that another 3 weeks of the prime playing period is going to the county game. It was already unbalanced enough in that regard." The amount of time a fully split season gives to the All Ireland club championships is significant. I still don't see the urgency in finishing up the season in the calendar year. I don't think the St Patrick's day club finals were ever a problem needing solving.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 479 - 19/06/2025 11:28:24
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