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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "Your furtherance of the "52%" figure permits an inference that 52% of British people voted for Brexit.

In fact, only slightly over a quarter of the British electorate voted for Brexit - 26.9%.

Away from the misleading populist headlines, here's how the numbers stacked up:

TOTAL POTENTIAL VOTERS: 64,600,000

Of that 64.6 million British people:

28% of them (18,099,999) weren't on the electoral roll.

Another 20% (12,948,018) didn't vote.

Another 25% (16,141,241) voted Remain.

And 26.9% (17,410,742) voted Leave

In other words, around three quarters of the British public did not vote for Brexit.

And that's the problem with these referendums. They're structured to declare an outcome on the back of insufficient popular support.

See my blog from last year on "why Brexit is failing":

"And as Margaret Thatcher (quoting Clement Attlee) noted: "Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right," she observed, "when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."

Hear, hear. But if you insist on having one of those wretched modern degenerations into governance by panem et circenses, there should at least be a mandatory supermajority (of at least 75%), and there also should be compulsory voting (fine non-voters via PAYE or in their benefits) to get above (e.g.) a 75% turnout.

Absent those conditions, it's just a recipe for endless division - civil war without guns. England, like America, is now a nation divided, primarily fighting with itself. This is no good for anyone, neither Britain itself, nor its long-suffering neighbours. Britain, like Ireland, through political cowardice and expediency, has allowed the alien governance concept of populist "referendums" to infect the body politic in both countries, and Britain is now reaping the predictable harvest."

See: https://ayenaw.com/2021/10/23/why-brexit-is-failing/"
Tbh post Brexit Britain is nowhere near as bad as I thought it'd be. I was under the impression that Britain would become a 3rd world pariah listening to some of the headlines at the time. I know a fair few people who've left Ireland to live in Britain the last few years. If Britain is such a mess it doesn't say much for us does it lol?

Awful easy these days to lazily dismiss anything you don't like as populist.
If the non populist politicians you have so much faith in were doing a half decent job, the door wouldn't be open for these populists you're so focused on.

We're experiencing high inflation, an accommodation crisis, rising debt, decreasing living standards, and a cost of living problem,and our society is also divided, here in Galway theres very little mixing between ethnicities and nationalities,and we're bloody well in the EU.

Perhaps we should take a look at these things before acting smug.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 14/09/2022 20:51:21    2440706

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Replying To Gleebo:  "But what do you mean by throwing digs? To my mind, a lot of the criticism of Brexit voiced from Ireland was accurate. For instance, for the first few years the Brexiters insisted that technology could solve the border issue, but when pressed on what and how, very few details were forthcoming. The "oven ready deal" that Johnson heralded was abandoned by the UK Government as soon as loyalists started acting up.

I do also think that there is still a latent hostility to Ireland in some parts of Britain (probably areas with high military recruitment) which never really went away, and Brexit revealed that."
I admit that the Brexiteers have been that bit more bombastic in their approach, and Johnson is a clown,, although I'd hesitate to put too much faith in our crowd either.
A cynical part of me wonders if they have used Brexit as a convenient whipping boy to cover up their own mismanagement.
I was more referring to ordinary folk, when mentioning throwing digs. You only have to read some of the posts here to see what some of us think of the British working classes, one guy here essentially saying that everyone who voted Brexit is an unemployed alcoholic.
Ridiculous stuff.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 14/09/2022 21:04:39    2440708

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "Your furtherance of the "52%" figure permits an inference that 52% of British people voted for Brexit.

In fact, only slightly over a quarter of the British electorate voted for Brexit - 26.9%.

Away from the misleading populist headlines, here's how the numbers stacked up:

TOTAL POTENTIAL VOTERS: 64,600,000

Of that 64.6 million British people:

28% of them (18,099,999) weren't on the electoral roll.

Another 20% (12,948,018) didn't vote.

Another 25% (16,141,241) voted Remain.

And 26.9% (17,410,742) voted Leave

In other words, around three quarters of the British public did not vote for Brexit.

And that's the problem with these referendums. They're structured to declare an outcome on the back of insufficient popular support.

See my blog from last year on "why Brexit is failing":

"And as Margaret Thatcher (quoting Clement Attlee) noted: "Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right," she observed, "when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."

Hear, hear. But if you insist on having one of those wretched modern degenerations into governance by panem et circenses, there should at least be a mandatory supermajority (of at least 75%), and there also should be compulsory voting (fine non-voters via PAYE or in their benefits) to get above (e.g.) a 75% turnout.

Absent those conditions, it's just a recipe for endless division - civil war without guns. England, like America, is now a nation divided, primarily fighting with itself. This is no good for anyone, neither Britain itself, nor its long-suffering neighbours. Britain, like Ireland, through political cowardice and expediency, has allowed the alien governance concept of populist "referendums" to infect the body politic in both countries, and Britain is now reaping the predictable harvest."

See: https://ayenaw.com/2021/10/23/why-brexit-is-failing/"
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with referendums. Switzerland uses them a lot as part of their direct democracy model and it works quite well for them, judging by their standard of living. But the use of referendum requires people to take significant amounts of time to inform themselves of the issues, and there is some evidence that this didn't happen in the case of the Brexit referendum, hence the "What happens if we leave the EU?" question topping the google search lists in the UK the day after the vote.

Abandoning the option of a plebiscite essentially means that politicians exclusively decide the political agenda, which I'm guessing very few people want here. And the only reason we have regular referendums here is because the Crotty supreme court judgment forces the government to hold one in the event of an EU treaty altering Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Our politicians are a fairly unrepresentative bunch IMO. The majority of them are landlords, for starters, which might explain their lack of action to fix a broken property market. Anything which checks their powers is ok with me.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 15/09/2022 08:31:23    2440713

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The attention seekers that are James McClain and Celtic fans have been in their elements in recent days....

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1157 - 15/09/2022 08:57:06    2440715

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with referendums. Switzerland uses them a lot as part of their direct democracy model and it works quite well for them, judging by their standard of living. But the use of referendum requires people to take significant amounts of time to inform themselves of the issues, and there is some evidence that this didn't happen in the case of the Brexit referendum, hence the "What happens if we leave the EU?" question topping the google search lists in the UK the day after the vote.

Abandoning the option of a plebiscite essentially means that politicians exclusively decide the political agenda, which I'm guessing very few people want here. And the only reason we have regular referendums here is because the Crotty supreme court judgment forces the government to hold one in the event of an EU treaty altering Bunreacht na hÉireann.

Our politicians are a fairly unrepresentative bunch IMO. The majority of them are landlords, for starters, which might explain their lack of action to fix a broken property market. Anything which checks their powers is ok with me."
Yep. Politicians are like nappies. They need to be changed regularly and for the same reason.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8277 - 15/09/2022 09:41:28    2440724

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Replying To oneoff:  "The attention seekers that are James McClain and Celtic fans have been in their elements in recent days...."
Who's James McClain? Oh, you mean James McClean, but don't know how to spell his name.
Where has he been attention seeking and how?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2061 - 15/09/2022 10:33:17    2440733

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Replying To oneoff:  "The attention seekers that are James McClain and Celtic fans have been in their elements in recent days...."
What exactly did James do wrong UKer? He stood in silence 3 inches from his team mates. You show him some respect by getting his name right.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1501 - 15/09/2022 10:37:02    2440734

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Replying To Saynothing:  "What exactly did James do wrong UKer? He stood in silence 3 inches from his team mates. You show him some respect by getting his name right."
Ya I misspelled it. Didn't say he did anything wrong did I? Just pointing out as never he never misses an opportunity to be the answer to a question no one actually asked him.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1157 - 15/09/2022 13:52:03    2440759

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Replying To Saynothing:  "What exactly did James do wrong UKer? He stood in silence 3 inches from his team mates. You show him some respect by getting his name right."
You can't really win with the mob mentality on show at the moment. Celtic had a brief statement on their website expressing their condolences to the family of QEII, and it got them nothing but vitriol from people posting on social media (because they didn't tweet the same thing). Official sources leaked info blaming themselves and Liverpool FC for the decision to postpone last weekend's league football programme.

There are real concerns on John Bull's island about how far the authorities are willing to go to stifle dissent.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/13/arrest-of-uk-anti-royals-raises-questions-about-freedom-of-speech

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/13/why-is-there-concern-over-free-speech-in-the-aftermath-of-queen-elizabeth-iis-death

People's feelings should never be a reason to clamp down on freedom of speech. It's wrong when religious nutcases do it and it's wrong now.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 15/09/2022 14:02:46    2440765

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Trevor Sinclair was briefly "cancelled" over his beliefs recently as well.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8277 - 15/09/2022 14:28:46    2440771

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I see Fianna Fáil are toying with the idea of readmitting Bertie to the party. Dia ár sábháil!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8277 - 15/09/2022 14:31:37    2440772

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10th anniversary of death of Nevin Spence, his brother and dad on their farm
RIP Nevin

Ulster announced today theyre going to rename one of the stands in Ravenhill after Nevin as well

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2927 - 15/09/2022 16:34:59    2440798

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "I see Fianna Fáil are toying with the idea of readmitting Bertie to the party. Dia ár sábháil!"
He certainly has all the qualities and virtues that FF seeks in its membership. I can't see how they could actually rule him out. He might even end up leading those 'soldiers of destiny' once again.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1404 - 15/09/2022 17:02:22    2440804

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Trevor Sinclair was briefly "cancelled" over his beliefs recently as well."
In fairness it's no bad thing having him off the airwaves for a while. He just dumbs down what's usually a very good show when Simon Jordan is on.

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 415 - 15/09/2022 17:08:46    2440806

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Replying To oneoff:  "The attention seekers that are James McClain and Celtic fans have been in their elements in recent days...."
What a silly ignorant statement. How have Celtic Fans been attention seekers and in their element?

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1740 - 15/09/2022 18:40:42    2440814

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Replying To Bon:  "What a silly ignorant statement. How have Celtic Fans been attention seekers and in their element?"
Does that really need to be explained to you?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1157 - 15/09/2022 21:20:07    2440832

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Trevor Sinclair was briefly "cancelled" over his beliefs recently as well."
For questioning the forced mourning around the queen's passing, not his previous racist ramblings. Reminds me a bit of Anthony Joshua's previous very questionable comments on those issues also getting a free pass...

My stance is that it's fine to see racism as a sackable offence, but then it has to be applied evenly, irrespective of the creed or colour of the perpetrator. If the likes of Ron Atkinson was cancelled for using racist language (and rightly he was), then those doing the same should be too. The person's racial or ethnic background shouldn't be a consideration for leniency.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 16/09/2022 08:27:54    2440840

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Replying To oneoff:  "Does that really need to be explained to you?"
Yes please do, because as a Celtic supporter I am certainly not in my element because someone died, and to tar all supporters as such because a minority displayed a flag is certainly ignorant. Mabye its you that needs things explained to them.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1740 - 16/09/2022 09:35:55    2440853

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RIP to the rugby broadcaster and former Welsh international Eddie Butler, one of my favorite commentators in any sport.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 424 - 16/09/2022 10:35:36    2440865

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "RIP to the rugby broadcaster and former Welsh international Eddie Butler, one of my favorite commentators in any sport."
Couldn't recognise his face but could definitely recognise his voice, for me the voice of rugby.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1501 - 16/09/2022 11:17:37    2440875

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