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Replying To Bon:  "Weddings in the UK can be fairly full enough affairs at the best of times without that being shoved down your throat."
To be fair the guests didn't really talk about it that much, it was more on the TV and radio where it was the only item of discussion. Also in the streets- I was in London the day before and the images of herself were omnipresent- in the airport, in train stations, in shopping centres, at bus stops. Strikes me as overkill but I guess they can please themselves.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 13/09/2022 14:54:38    2440538

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I haven't met many Irish people who believe that Brexit is a good thing, but maybe you have a fresh perspective. What I will say is that walking up the street in Brexitland the other day, I saw a lot of low level poverty around, lots of discount shops, charity shops, a lack of industry etc. So while I think that the working class Brexiters (outside of the chinless wonders such as Johnson, Rees Mogg, Raab etc.) backed the wrong horse, it was clearly the case that the investment from the EU hadn't reached a lot of people there, or at least wasn't visible to them.

They are probably mistaken if they believe that the Conservatives are going to replace the EU cohesion funds that have been lost to the peripheral regions of their country, though.

I do agree with you about the hypocrisy that we see in the media regarding hate speech. Trevor Sinclair, for instance, racially abused a white policeman a few years back when being booked for drink driving. He continues to have a media career in the UK, something that I doubt would have happened if the circumstances were reversed.

I am also a bit concerned that there are elements on the left which are conflating racism (and many of the very bad things that flow from it) as a unique property of whiteness, something that can debunked with about three seconds of thought, but which seldom is in mainstream media.

Equality needs to mean equality, in order to have a harmonious society."
I'm not saying Brexit is great, if it was up to me they would have remained, (not that EU nations got money coming out of our ears either mind), I'm just saying that we're well able to throw digs ourselves, that's not a one way street.

I also sometimes wonder if our press is too keen to blame almost everything on Brexit.

Agree with the rest of what you said.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1359 - 13/09/2022 15:23:57    2440546

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Replying To Gleebo:  "I haven't met many Irish people who believe that Brexit is a good thing, but maybe you have a fresh perspective. What I will say is that walking up the street in Brexitland the other day, I saw a lot of low level poverty around, lots of discount shops, charity shops, a lack of industry etc. So while I think that the working class Brexiters (outside of the chinless wonders such as Johnson, Rees Mogg, Raab etc.) backed the wrong horse, it was clearly the case that the investment from the EU hadn't reached a lot of people there, or at least wasn't visible to them.

They are probably mistaken if they believe that the Conservatives are going to replace the EU cohesion funds that have been lost to the peripheral regions of their country, though.

I do agree with you about the hypocrisy that we see in the media regarding hate speech. Trevor Sinclair, for instance, racially abused a white policeman a few years back when being booked for drink driving. He continues to have a media career in the UK, something that I doubt would have happened if the circumstances were reversed.

I am also a bit concerned that there are elements on the left which are conflating racism (and many of the very bad things that flow from it) as a unique property of whiteness, something that can debunked with about three seconds of thought, but which seldom is in mainstream media.

Equality needs to mean equality, in order to have a harmonious society."
Funny how the majority of brexiters in England were people not working and blaming foreigners for the lack of jobs. Then come the summer they go on their budget holidays to Spain and take their Union Jack shorts and towels. I don't mind paying over the odds as long as I can hear them crying , especially in the North where they cry over the protocol. Love seeing Jim Allister going red in the face with anger.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1501 - 13/09/2022 15:48:28    2440555

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Replying To Gleebo:  "To be fair the guests didn't really talk about it that much, it was more on the TV and radio where it was the only item of discussion. Also in the streets- I was in London the day before and the images of herself were omnipresent- in the airport, in train stations, in shopping centres, at bus stops. Strikes me as overkill but I guess they can please themselves."
I suppose when your a subject you'll be loyal till the end.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1740 - 13/09/2022 17:31:52    2440576

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Funny how the majority of brexiters in England were people not working and blaming foreigners for the lack of jobs. Then come the summer they go on their budget holidays to Spain and take their Union Jack shorts and towels. I don't mind paying over the odds as long as I can hear them crying , especially in the North where they cry over the protocol. Love seeing Jim Allister going red in the face with anger."
"Funny how the majority of brexiters in England were people not working"

That is utter bullsh*t. Show me a source for this statement?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2061 - 13/09/2022 18:41:00    2440583

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Replying To Gleebo:  "To be fair the guests didn't really talk about it that much, it was more on the TV and radio where it was the only item of discussion. Also in the streets- I was in London the day before and the images of herself were omnipresent- in the airport, in train stations, in shopping centres, at bus stops. Strikes me as overkill but I guess they can please themselves."
"I was in London the day before and the images of herself were omnipresent- in the airport, in train stations, in shopping centres, at bus stops. Strikes me as overkill but I guess they can please themselves."

I live in London. There are no images of the queen at my local train stations, no images of her at any bus stops and no images of her at shopping centres.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2061 - 13/09/2022 18:45:50    2440584

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Funny how the majority of brexiters in England were people not working and blaming foreigners for the lack of jobs. Then come the summer they go on their budget holidays to Spain and take their Union Jack shorts and towels. I don't mind paying over the odds as long as I can hear them crying , especially in the North where they cry over the protocol. Love seeing Jim Allister going red in the face with anger."
The majority of Brexiteers? So you're saying the majority of 52% of voters in the UK were people not working, thus at least 26% of the British electorate in 2016 were unemployed? Catch yourself on.

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 415 - 13/09/2022 20:19:53    2440590

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""Funny how the majority of brexiters in England were people not working"

That is utter bullsh*t. Show me a source for this statement?"
Check out towns like Boston and Hartlepool to name a couple. Cry, cry about foreigners taking jobs but the only time they get off their ass is at midnight the day their free money hits their bank account. Then it's straight to the 24 he for a carry out. Full program on it. Here's a quote from one person on why they voted to leave"basically because of the huge influx of EU citizens, and the fact that our own kids can't really get jobs." Police arrest a young fellow in Scotland for telling the truth while two bullies walk free for throwing the lad to the ground. Self destruct button in UK.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1501 - 13/09/2022 20:37:06    2440591

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'm not saying Brexit is great, if it was up to me they would have remained, (not that EU nations got money coming out of our ears either mind), I'm just saying that we're well able to throw digs ourselves, that's not a one way street.

I also sometimes wonder if our press is too keen to blame almost everything on Brexit.

Agree with the rest of what you said."
But what do you mean by throwing digs? To my mind, a lot of the criticism of Brexit voiced from Ireland was accurate. For instance, for the first few years the Brexiters insisted that technology could solve the border issue, but when pressed on what and how, very few details were forthcoming. The "oven ready deal" that Johnson heralded was abandoned by the UK Government as soon as loyalists started acting up.

I do also think that there is still a latent hostility to Ireland in some parts of Britain (probably areas with high military recruitment) which never really went away, and Brexit revealed that.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 14/09/2022 09:13:28    2440604

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  ""I was in London the day before and the images of herself were omnipresent- in the airport, in train stations, in shopping centres, at bus stops. Strikes me as overkill but I guess they can please themselves."

I live in London. There are no images of the queen at my local train stations, no images of her at any bus stops and no images of her at shopping centres."
Well, what can I say? I must assume that you're not based near Victoria station, or in South East London, because she was pretty omnipresent there.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 14/09/2022 09:16:07    2440605

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Replying To streaker:  "The majority of Brexiteers? So you're saying the majority of 52% of voters in the UK were people not working, thus at least 26% of the British electorate in 2016 were unemployed? Catch yourself on."
Maybe I should have worded it "die hard brexiters"

Neartheborder (Derry) - Posts: 29 - 14/09/2022 10:27:07    2440609

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Well, what can I say? I must assume that you're not based near Victoria station, or in South East London, because she was pretty omnipresent there."
I live in North London. I don't doubt what your saying, I just wanted it to be known that your experience of London is not what most of London is like.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2061 - 14/09/2022 11:19:45    2440619

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Replying To streaker:  "The majority of Brexiteers? So you're saying the majority of 52% of voters in the UK were people not working, thus at least 26% of the British electorate in 2016 were unemployed? Catch yourself on."
Putting it another way. 15 million people in England voted for Brexit. According to the expert on here from Tyrone, " the majority of brexiters in England were people not working ".

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2061 - 14/09/2022 12:31:15    2440639

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Replying To Gleebo:  "But what do you mean by throwing digs? To my mind, a lot of the criticism of Brexit voiced from Ireland was accurate. For instance, for the first few years the Brexiters insisted that technology could solve the border issue, but when pressed on what and how, very few details were forthcoming. The "oven ready deal" that Johnson heralded was abandoned by the UK Government as soon as loyalists started acting up.

I do also think that there is still a latent hostility to Ireland in some parts of Britain (probably areas with high military recruitment) which never really went away, and Brexit revealed that."
Brexit is at shotgun blast to both feet economically speaking and has introduced a world of unneccessary hassle in terms of logistics and bureaucracy. Not to mention the problems associated with the North and the undermining of the GFA.

Can anyone here, (possibly UK posters) explain any tangible benefits of Brexit? I know that some pedantic EU regulations can now be avoided and they have their blue passports again, but does any of that actually trump the benefits in terms of tariff free trade that EU membership brought?

Or is it just the case that the whole thing was simply a vehicle for ruthless and cyncical politicians (Boris, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Patel, Gove etc) to ride into power on? And once in power, noone had a scooby-do how to actually implement it or deal with the fallout?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8277 - 14/09/2022 13:56:14    2440656

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "I live in North London. I don't doubt what your saying, I just wanted it to be known that your experience of London is not what most of London is like."
That's fine. But Google/Twitter search "Queen Elizabeth bus stop" and it seems like there's plenty of evidence to show that I'm not making things up. I can't speak of your area.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 14/09/2022 14:22:59    2440659

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Replying To streaker:  "The majority of Brexiteers? So you're saying the majority of 52% of voters in the UK were people not working, thus at least 26% of the British electorate in 2016 were unemployed? Catch yourself on."
Your furtherance of the "52%" figure permits an inference that 52% of British people voted for Brexit.

In fact, only slightly over a quarter of the British electorate voted for Brexit - 26.9%.

Away from the misleading populist headlines, here's how the numbers stacked up:

TOTAL POTENTIAL VOTERS: 64,600,000

Of that 64.6 million British people:

28% of them (18,099,999) weren't on the electoral roll.

Another 20% (12,948,018) didn't vote.

Another 25% (16,141,241) voted Remain.

And 26.9% (17,410,742) voted Leave

In other words, around three quarters of the British public did not vote for Brexit.

And that's the problem with these referendums. They're structured to declare an outcome on the back of insufficient popular support.

See my blog from last year on "why Brexit is failing":

"And as Margaret Thatcher (quoting Clement Attlee) noted: "Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right," she observed, "when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues."

Hear, hear. But if you insist on having one of those wretched modern degenerations into governance by panem et circenses, there should at least be a mandatory supermajority (of at least 75%), and there also should be compulsory voting (fine non-voters via PAYE or in their benefits) to get above (e.g.) a 75% turnout.

Absent those conditions, it's just a recipe for endless division - civil war without guns. England, like America, is now a nation divided, primarily fighting with itself. This is no good for anyone, neither Britain itself, nor its long-suffering neighbours. Britain, like Ireland, through political cowardice and expediency, has allowed the alien governance concept of populist "referendums" to infect the body politic in both countries, and Britain is now reaping the predictable harvest."

See: https://ayenaw.com/2021/10/23/why-brexit-is-failing/

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 104 - 14/09/2022 14:41:35    2440660

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I see some American lad has suggested bringing in a sort of a soccer Railway Cup:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62899010

Klopp doesn't like it (scheduling for sure would be a problem, and the club is everything in pro soccer - why risk getting your players injured in somethng which does not advance the brand etc), but it might be a bit of crack ...

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 104 - 14/09/2022 14:54:17    2440665

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "I see some American lad has suggested bringing in a sort of a soccer Railway Cup:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62899010

Klopp doesn't like it (scheduling for sure would be a problem, and the club is everything in pro soccer - why risk getting your players injured in somethng which does not advance the brand etc), but it might be a bit of crack ..."
It's something different for sure. We once had a debate in the pub about how English football would look if it adopted our GAA county format. It didn't get too far because not many of knew offhand where different players were born etc. Plus London would have to be divided into its boroughs etc for fairness.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 8277 - 14/09/2022 15:10:03    2440666

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "I see some American lad has suggested bringing in a sort of a soccer Railway Cup:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62899010

Klopp doesn't like it (scheduling for sure would be a problem, and the club is everything in pro soccer - why risk getting your players injured in somethng which does not advance the brand etc), but it might be a bit of crack ..."
The only way I could see it working if it replaced the community shield, soccer season is ridiculously crammed at it is.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 425 - 14/09/2022 15:51:55    2440679

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Replying To Neartheborder:  "Maybe I should have worded it "die hard brexiters""
I don't think there's such a thing as die hard Brexiters they would come under the umbrella of die hard English who think they can turn up and rule the world. The rule Britannia mob who hadn't a clue what Brexit meant to the economy. At least Ireland weighed the situation up and had another vote and better off for doing it. On another note wasn't it great to see Sinn Fein leading the North as the biggest party and DUP playing second fiddle. Don't tell Geoffrey about being the biggest party was like a quote from Faulty Tower, Don't mention the war .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1501 - 14/09/2022 16:08:37    2440680

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