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Top 9 Hurling Counties Discriminating Against The Rest?

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When 1B provided fair competitive hurling before championship, can anyone explain the logic of 1A teams fighting tooth and nail to avoid it?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 14/04/2022 10:51:21    2410951

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Replying To legendzxix:  "When 1B provided fair competitive hurling before championship, can anyone explain the logic of 1A teams fighting tooth and nail to avoid it?"
Thinking was for some counties that it benefitted their hurlers to be playing better opponents more often.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 14/04/2022 11:48:04    2410960

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Replying To legendzxix:  "When 1B provided fair competitive hurling before championship, can anyone explain the logic of 1A teams fighting tooth and nail to avoid it?"
Because 2-3 counties got 1-2 proper matches and then matches against weaker counties.
I will say it again though, it is not up to 2-3 counties to be fall guys to give the 2nd rank teams a couple of better games to the detriment of their championship prospects later in the summer. It is up to the 2nd counties to promote the game to the level it is in those top 9 counties, win a few underage provincial titles and All-Irelands, and see where it takes them.
It is not a case of the top counties discriminating against the rest, it is the case of the other 23 counties not giving equal promotion to the game and then when the championship structures etc are decided then they complain that they are not getting a fair crack at the whip. If anything, they still hold the balance of power when they don't promote the game themselves which is completely wrong if you ask me.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 14/04/2022 12:01:11    2410964

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Because 2-3 counties got 1-2 proper matches and then matches against weaker counties.
I will say it again though, it is not up to 2-3 counties to be fall guys to give the 2nd rank teams a couple of better games to the detriment of their championship prospects later in the summer. It is up to the 2nd counties to promote the game to the level it is in those top 9 counties, win a few underage provincial titles and All-Irelands, and see where it takes them.
It is not a case of the top counties discriminating against the rest, it is the case of the other 23 counties not giving equal promotion to the game and then when the championship structures etc are decided then they complain that they are not getting a fair crack at the whip. If anything, they still hold the balance of power when they don't promote the game themselves which is completely wrong if you ask me."
Division 1B teams won the All-Ireland in 2017 and 2018? Division 1B hurling did not have a detrimental impact on their championship.
A Division 2 of 8 below a Division 1 of 8 would have an impact, as per 2011. A Division 1B of 6 below a Division 1A of 6 has shown to have been a fair solution.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 14/04/2022 12:46:59    2410970

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Division 1B teams won the All-Ireland in 2017 and 2018? Division 1B hurling did not have a detrimental impact on their championship.
A Division 2 of 8 below a Division 1 of 8 would have an impact, as per 2011. A Division 1B of 6 below a Division 1A of 6 has shown to have been a fair solution."
Our hurlers and hurling in the county in general benefitted massively from being in 1a from 2018 onwards. It was Davy Fitzs primary goal from the County Board when he got appointed. Galway didn't care about being in 1b as they had a team that had been very close to winning an AI for a few years before 2017. Likewise the Limerick team that won the AI in 2018 had been playing together since they were chaps picking up AI titles at u21 in 2015 and 2017. At the end of the day though that's not the point of this thread. The top 9 counties have always had nearly no say in the way the League is structured as they only have around a quarter of the votes at Congress.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 14/04/2022 13:28:00    2410983

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Division 1B teams won the All-Ireland in 2017 and 2018? Division 1B hurling did not have a detrimental impact on their championship.
A Division 2 of 8 below a Division 1 of 8 would have an impact, as per 2011. A Division 1B of 6 below a Division 1A of 6 has shown to have been a fair solution."
How many did 1B teams not win though?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 14/04/2022 13:53:51    2410988

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Replying To Viking66:  "Our hurlers and hurling in the county in general benefitted massively from being in 1a from 2018 onwards. It was Davy Fitzs primary goal from the County Board when he got appointed. Galway didn't care about being in 1b as they had a team that had been very close to winning an AI for a few years before 2017. Likewise the Limerick team that won the AI in 2018 had been playing together since they were chaps picking up AI titles at u21 in 2015 and 2017. At the end of the day though that's not the point of this thread. The top 9 counties have always had nearly no say in the way the League is structured as they only have around a quarter of the votes at Congress."
I started this thread! The Top 9 wanted the current league format for their benefit. Division 1A and 1B were a fairer benefit for all.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 14/04/2022 14:50:18    2411000

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "How many did 1B teams not win though?"
That doesn't diminish that Division 1B did provide competitive hurling pre championship. It wasn't the fire situation of a Division 2 below the top 8.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 14/04/2022 14:52:30    2411001

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Replying To legendzxix:  "I started this thread! The Top 9 wanted the current league format for their benefit. Division 1A and 1B were a fairer benefit for all."
They could easily have been outvoted though?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 14/04/2022 15:17:47    2411011

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Replying To legendzxix:  "That doesn't diminish that Division 1B did provide competitive hurling pre championship. It wasn't the fire situation of a Division 2 below the top 8."
Each team only got 2 competitive games though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 14/04/2022 15:18:34    2411012

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Replying To Viking66:  "Each team only got 2 competitive games though."
Exactly.
What needs more focus on from the "developing" counties (I hate the term but can't think of any other) is how do we make them so competitive at underage that a team from Kerry or Kildare or Westmeath can move beyond a shock result where they catch a team on the hop and put 2-3 performances in and win the province. That has to be the starting point and anything which happens at senior level is purely moving goalposts to suit, a guy at 20-25 years old who hasn't been competitive with the top counties and hurled at their level at minor or feile level does not have a hope of competing with the All-Ireland champions.
A starting point would be forcing Co. boards to provide equal funding and resourcing between the 2 games but good luck getting that one over the line.
I think what the top 9 counties could do is provide top of the range coaches to the developing counties but it would be up to the GAA to resource that one and would require commitment on the part of the clubs which bar a few pockets of hurling or sporadic clubs here and there - in many counties it just is not there.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1613 - 14/04/2022 16:31:32    2411028

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Replying To Viking66:  "Each team only got 2 competitive games though."
A possible option;
Division 1A: 6 teams. Top 4 into semi-finals. Top 2 teams with home advantage.
Division 1B: 6 teams. Top 2 into final. Top team with home advantage. Final winner promoted.
Division 1A play-off semi-final: 5th 1A at home versus 3rd 1B.
Division 1A play-off final: Division 1B runner-up at home versus play-off semi-final winner.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 14/04/2022 17:46:52    2411044

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Replying To legendzxix:  "A possible option;
Division 1A: 6 teams. Top 4 into semi-finals. Top 2 teams with home advantage.
Division 1B: 6 teams. Top 2 into final. Top team with home advantage. Final winner promoted.
Division 1A play-off semi-final: 5th 1A at home versus 3rd 1B.
Division 1A play-off final: Division 1B runner-up at home versus play-off semi-final winner."
Dont get that at all. Are you suggesting possibly 2 up and 2 down if the 5th team in div1a loses a playoff game? Firstly whoever wins 1b should be promoted. Secondly it means theres no route open to the div1b teams to win the league. So why call it 1b at all? Why not just call it div2? Wexford won the AI from div2 in 1996 anyway. And Kerry beat Clare, then reigning AI Champions, by 5 points in a Division 1 game that same year, well at the end of 1995 in the 1st game of that years League, although ultimately got relegated.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5535 - 16/04/2022 09:47:35    2411071

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Replying To Viking66:  "Dont get that at all. Are you suggesting possibly 2 up and 2 down if the 5th team in div1a loses a playoff game? Firstly whoever wins 1b should be promoted. Secondly it means theres no route open to the div1b teams to win the league. So why call it 1b at all? Why not just call it div2? Wexford won the AI from div2 in 1996 anyway. And Kerry beat Clare, then reigning AI Champions, by 5 points in a Division 1 game that same year, well at the end of 1995 in the 1st game of that years League, although ultimately got relegated."
1B final winner should be promoted. The 1B final loser could get a second bite at the promotion cherry through a play-off.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6832 - 16/04/2022 17:57:03    2411134

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