National Forum

2021 National Hurling League

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


There is nothing wrong with hurling at the moment in my opinion. It is fine.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2181 - 11/06/2021 10:26:30    2349536

Link

The GAA's national hurling development manager Martin Fogarty believes systematic fouling is "killing our game".

This is the most sensible thing I have read about the state of hurling:

"It amuses or irritates me, I am not sure which, to hear people complain about the frees and the stoppages but when their own teams and players are getting fouled, they are dancing and jumping, raising hands to heaven, and shouting all sorts to the referee. It is like, it is ok for my team to pull and drag, hold and slap, but when these things are done to my players then it is not ok," Fogarty said.

"People need to stand up and be counted. Either it is ok to hold an opponent's hurl, or it is not. If it is ok, then change the rule and see what happens! If it is not ok, then stop coaching players to do so, otherwise take the consequences if your players are caught fouling, which is a free and usually a point at top level and stop whingeing about the referee.

"Is it ok to drag or hold an opponent's arm, shoulder or hip? If the majority think it is, then fine let's change the rules and watch our beautiful game disappear and become more like rugby where it is ok to do these things. Is that what the 'purists' want?"

He added: "Pulling and dragging, holding and slapping is not physicality. It is fouling! It is lazy and it is killing our game. It is a poor player's solution to not being able to cope with a better opponent."

baire (Galway) - Posts: 953 - 11/06/2021 11:36:43    2349551

Link

Replying To baire:  "The GAA's national hurling development manager Martin Fogarty believes systematic fouling is "killing our game".

This is the most sensible thing I have read about the state of hurling:

"It amuses or irritates me, I am not sure which, to hear people complain about the frees and the stoppages but when their own teams and players are getting fouled, they are dancing and jumping, raising hands to heaven, and shouting all sorts to the referee. It is like, it is ok for my team to pull and drag, hold and slap, but when these things are done to my players then it is not ok," Fogarty said.

"People need to stand up and be counted. Either it is ok to hold an opponent's hurl, or it is not. If it is ok, then change the rule and see what happens! If it is not ok, then stop coaching players to do so, otherwise take the consequences if your players are caught fouling, which is a free and usually a point at top level and stop whingeing about the referee.

"Is it ok to drag or hold an opponent's arm, shoulder or hip? If the majority think it is, then fine let's change the rules and watch our beautiful game disappear and become more like rugby where it is ok to do these things. Is that what the 'purists' want?"

He added: "Pulling and dragging, holding and slapping is not physicality. It is fouling! It is lazy and it is killing our game. It is a poor player's solution to not being able to cope with a better opponent.""
Excellent post !
At the heart of the matter is that the tackle needs to be better defined, and indeed, can it be well executed within current rules. If the latter is not possible, a rule change needs to occur. While I wouldn't want rugby tackles legitimised, I like the 'hot potato' aspect of the Aussie AFL game - move the ball quickly or give away a free if grounded in possession. In most cases, the end result is that most players pass the ball and don't get grounded.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1999 - 11/06/2021 12:32:21    2349564

Link

hmm...Now there's a dilemma, Cork v Galway on TG4 or seeing how the Irish lads Grealish, Rice, Kane, Maguire & Bukay O'Sako are getting on at d'Euros !!

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1003 - 11/06/2021 12:48:05    2349568

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Excellent post !
At the heart of the matter is that the tackle needs to be better defined, and indeed, can it be well executed within current rules. If the latter is not possible, a rule change needs to occur. While I wouldn't want rugby tackles legitimised, I like the 'hot potato' aspect of the Aussie AFL game - move the ball quickly or give away a free if grounded in possession. In most cases, the end result is that most players pass the ball and don't get grounded."
It was an interesting article, especially as it was written by a man involved in the team that pioneered many of these "playing on the edge of the rules" type fouls! As regards the hot potato element I dont think moving the ball quickly is a problem in hurling. Most people on this thread are complaining about too much moving the ball quickly especially by handpass! All in all rule changes for the sake of them arent good for any sport.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1980 - 11/06/2021 12:56:37    2349571

Link

Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Replying To ZUL10: "https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40310876.html

Finally a Kilkenny man calling it as he sees it and how it is."


Lol,there was no playing on the edge or using the spare hand or holding hurleys when Fogarty was with KK back in 2005/13 or swarm tackling...…..sooo funny!"
Good On Ya, OnThe Ditch, for pointing out where it all began. Laughable or a Red Herring?

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1227 - 11/06/2021 13:22:38    2349576

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "It was an interesting article, especially as it was written by a man involved in the team that pioneered many of these "playing on the edge of the rules" type fouls! As regards the hot potato element I dont think moving the ball quickly is a problem in hurling. Most people on this thread are complaining about too much moving the ball quickly especially by handpass! All in all rule changes for the sake of them arent good for any sport."
So that only proves we should never listen to the opinions of the current managers. They will brake rules all day long if it wins matches. Give them a few years in retirement and their unbiased opinions come out.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 639 - 11/06/2021 13:33:18    2349581

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "They invented "playing on the edge" sure:)"
It's call reborn again purist. I always thought that the GAA missed out not giving his boss a pair of tap dancing shoes and a board because you would have a tap dancing show on the side with him preforming a Jig over decisions. He has pushed more linesmen, referees and players than Davy will in his life time.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1340 - 11/06/2021 13:37:34    2349582

Link

Replying To Canuck:  "It's call reborn again purist. I always thought that the GAA missed out not giving his boss a pair of tap dancing shoes and a board because you would have a tap dancing show on the side with him preforming a Jig over decisions. He has pushed more linesmen, referees and players than Davy will in his life time."
Name all of the linesmen and referees "he has pushed" and the matches?

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1346 - 11/06/2021 14:30:39    2349597

Link

Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "Replying To ZUL10: "https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40310876.html

Finally a Kilkenny man calling it as he sees it and how it is."


Lol,there was no playing on the edge or using the spare hand or holding hurleys when Fogarty was with KK back in 2005/13 or swarm tackling...…..sooo funny!"
You have no problem having criticizing KK 05-13. style of play. But when somebody criticizes the limerick style of play, that's not allowed..

Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 26 - 11/06/2021 14:31:18    2349598

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Name all of the linesmen and referees "he has pushed" and the matches?"
Do you have time?

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1340 - 11/06/2021 14:36:13    2349600

Link

Replying To Oldtourman:  "Your county got a way more frees than Limerick last year and scored most of them and scored from five side line balls and still could not win. Galway also lost to a Kilkenny team that were well beaten by Waterford How do you reckon ye deserved to win more. Galway got all deserved last year. If they win it this year and they might well do we will be first and I hope we wont be whinging like ye."
Why did you reply to my post when you did not read it ?? I said that the team that commits the most fouls should not win games. That goes against what sport is ment to be about. I did not say anything about Galway winning did I? You seem to be following your manager in making things up in your head. You are whinging now so I'm sure you will be doing the same win or lose later in the year. Try to relax and don't be letting the emotions get the better of you!

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 106 - 11/06/2021 14:41:44    2349601

Link

Replying To Newyorkkat:  "You have no problem having criticizing KK 05-13. style of play. But when somebody criticizes the limerick style of play, that's not allowed.."
For something that's not allowed there's a fair amount of it going on at the moment.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 817 - 11/06/2021 15:01:27    2349608

Link

Well Said Martin Fogarty, the fouling and 'playing on the edge' suited the teams with the bigger players. that's one of the reasons Offaly and Antrim and even Clare and Waterford were going nowhere. Play by the rules, dont make them up to suit you.

Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 342 - 11/06/2021 15:01:46    2349610

Link

Replying To Canuck:  "Do you have time?"
I'm still waiting.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 1346 - 11/06/2021 15:09:43    2349612

Link

Replying To ecad123:  "Why did you reply to my post when you did not read it ?? I said that the team that commits the most fouls should not win games. That goes against what sport is ment to be about. I did not say anything about Galway winning did I? You seem to be following your manager in making things up in your head. You are whinging now so I'm sure you will be doing the same win or lose later in the year. Try to relax and don't be letting the emotions get the better of you!"
I am sure if you went back over the history of the game you will find several winning teams who committed the most fouls in any given year winning the All Ireland- I just quoted the 2007 Final as one such example. There was absolutely no way that Final should have been awarded to Limerick because they were adjudged and the adjudged word is important here- to have committed less frees that Kilkenny. Kilkenny were by far and away the best team that year, as Limerick were last year, and both teams utterly their All Ireland victories . End of story. You should not put forward an utterly absurd argument and expect to have nobody dare to contradict it.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2917 - 11/06/2021 19:26:01    2349649

Link

Replying To Newyorkkat:  "You have no problem having criticizing KK 05-13. style of play. But when somebody criticizes the limerick style of play, that's not allowed.."
You completely missed the point.....Fogarty...poacher turned gamekeeper! and he's not one bit embarrassed by the contradiction.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 708 - 11/06/2021 19:50:30    2349655

Link

Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Name all of the linesmen and referees "he has pushed" and the matches?"
Well Ger Loughnane did request that 'somebody pick Marty Morrisey off the floor' after an encounter with the saintly Brian. Having said that, I for one am a 'let the game flow merchant' and Brian Cody was 100% right to tell Marty where to go that day.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2917 - 11/06/2021 19:51:40    2349656

Link

Replying To omahant:  "Excellent post !
At the heart of the matter is that the tackle needs to be better defined, and indeed, can it be well executed within current rules. If the latter is not possible, a rule change needs to occur. While I wouldn't want rugby tackles legitimised, I like the 'hot potato' aspect of the Aussie AFL game - move the ball quickly or give away a free if grounded in possession. In most cases, the end result is that most players pass the ball and don't get grounded."
This the root cause of so much of the frustration with the implementation of the rules in hurling and football over the years. Many of the rules themselves are badly written and unclear. Here is the full definition of the tackle that was discussed on The Sunday Game:
Tackle Hurling: Any attempt to dispossess or reduce the advantage of opponent within the rules of fair play. With the exception of the charge (fair), the tackle is aimed at the ball not the player.[/I]
Great! Try using that definition to explain precisely what a fair tackle is is to an under-12 team.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 868 - 11/06/2021 20:53:58    2349669

Link

Replying To Gaillimh_Abu:  "This the root cause of so much of the frustration with the implementation of the rules in hurling and football over the years. Many of the rules themselves are badly written and unclear. Here is the full definition of the tackle that was discussed on The Sunday Game:
Tackle Hurling: Any attempt to dispossess or reduce the advantage of opponent within the rules of fair play. With the exception of the charge (fair), the tackle is aimed at the ball not the player.[/I

Great! Try using that definition to explain precisely what a fair tackle is is to an under-12 team."]Leaves a lot for an individual ref to have to interpret!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1980 - 12/06/2021 11:27:03    2349741

Link