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2021 National Hurling League

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Hurling today is a wonderful game. Full of skill and great scores. What rubbish is being posted on this site.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2181 - 08/06/2021 22:18:03    2349113

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Replying To Viking66:  "No problem with hardness in the game Canuck. Dirtyness, like pulling across someone's head or deliberately chopping down on someone's hand or arm or running full tilt straight head on into someone's chest would've got you sent off in the 90s never mind now. The most annoying dirtyness that wasnt as obvious in years gone by is the player throwing themselves on the ground to win a free or waving at their helmet to get a fellow player sent off. You have proposed on this that frontal charges shoulder to chest or head are ok. That was always against the rules of hurling in my lifetime. Noone is saying ground hurling or aerial striking should be banned. They have gradually been disappearing because they arent the best way to maximise your own score or minimize your opponents. If that wasnt the case all the managers would be encouraging their players to pull on the ball on the ground instead of getting it up into their hand or try striking it overhead instead of catching it. Odd that you are saying what it was like hurling back in your day when in another post last year you said you were a footballer not a hurler. As regards playing hurling against any us you are more than welcome anytime you are passing to give it a go at my place and we will see who goes crying home to mamma;)"
In correct I said I grew up in a football only parish. In a neighbouring parish was where our hurling was played but during my time our parish became a hurling strong hold. If you can roll back the clock 45 years or so I will take you up on that challenge.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1337 - 08/06/2021 23:37:25    2349133

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Replying To updwell:  "Shoulder to shoulder is allowed in hurling and if executed properly can knock the wind out of any player-its banned in rugby so I think rugby players might not be as physical as you think. The games of rugby and hurling require different physical tools and just like a prop in rugby wouldn't survive the pace of Intercounty hurling a small corner forward woul9 find a place on a rugby team.
As for banning the hand pass it will just lead to more bunching and rucks. As you say adjust the sliothar with bigger rims and that will take distance of the strike. Maybe ban pkayers from pointing frees from inside their own 65 and that would keep the ball in play for longer."
I think does modifications to the sliotar might help with rucks by making the pick up easier. How often do you see several attempts to pick up and then the ruck start or keeps going with several players trying to lift. There is no need to ban the hand pass just implement the rules. Separation between the ball and hand with the elbow visible moving back. Of course it cannot be executed properly because players trained to lift or catch the elbow.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1337 - 08/06/2021 23:57:58    2349135

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Replying To Canuck:  "In correct I said I grew up in a football only parish. In a neighbouring parish was where our hurling was played but during my time our parish became a hurling strong hold. If you can roll back the clock 45 years or so I will take you up on that challenge."
I'd of only been 5 45 years ago so I think it wouldve been a walk over for you. Literally! It was a tongue in cheek suggestion as I'm sure yours was also! I dont think anyone wants the physicality taken out of hurling anyway. It's just as the game has sped up with faster fitter players contact has got less because players have been coached not to bring the ball into contact where they might lose it. Same as overhead striking and ground hurling. Adrian Fenlon stood out as being very good at picking out a man with a long range strike off the ground but even back in the day when it was more commonplace most hurlers were only capable of hacking the ball in a vague direction. Pinpoint deliveries off the ground were relatively rare.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1952 - 09/06/2021 10:59:00    2349164

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I get that people loved the blood and thunder of the old game, but like life in general, things evolve and change. I really think it is great that players now look up and pick a man out instead of just lumping ball down the field. I think it is great that breaking hurls across each other and it being called "manly play" is no longer part of it.
Look at the famous games from the 90s, they were hatchet fests by all involved. Pull pull pull even if it goes to the opposition.
There is nothing wrong with thinking more about the game like all the top teams do these days.

The only 2 aspects of the game I have a problem with are diving/cheating to get a player sent off, and the excessive number of frees being given against a player trying to tackle, it seems like any attempt at tackling is a free.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1106 - 09/06/2021 11:20:44    2349169

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This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1003 - 09/06/2021 11:35:43    2349171

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Replying To Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Dinosaurs never played hurling. No ones opinion should just be dismissed. But things change in life hurling being 1 of them. At what point in time in the past do you want the game to be played like now? It was a very different game in the 50s than the 90s for example. It was different again in 1890. In the 50s most of the players smoked for example. Nearly all drank too. This would have affected the type of games you got. A lad smoking 40 a day wouldve rather stayed in his area of the pitch than have to cover every blade of grass as is the norm now.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1952 - 09/06/2021 12:35:08    2349187

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Replying To Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Exactly. Boring is the word. Anybody that thinks these games are anything but are not being honest. This was typified by Derek McGraths emotional,poetic but ultimately disingenuous answers to Joanne Cantwells.

Also, if anybody who proposes the theory that these free and handpass borefests are more attractive to parents to get their kids playing the game should provide some evidence? I can name dozens of clubs in Cork who now have fewer underage hurling teams than 20 years ago. There are very few (if any) who are now fielding more teams.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3815 - 09/06/2021 13:18:04    2349192

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Replying To Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Another ex Kilkenny player spouting everything we all ready know but doesnt come up with any solutions. He has no comment on any changes except to reverse them or proposed changes other than to say 'something needs to be changed'. No comment on why the free count is so high or what defines a tackle. No comment on the rims of the ball. No comment on why the cynical foul rule is possibly allowing more scores but instead implies that because there are loads of scores the defending must be poor. Maybe the defending is now more legitimate than in your day Larkin? Every ex KK hurler Ive heard in the last few days are along the same lines of BS but not one of them will stick their neck out and tell us 'WHAT' needs to be changed? I suspect what they are really saying is nothing should have changed or should ever be changed.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 639 - 09/06/2021 13:19:45    2349193

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I get that people loved the blood and thunder of the old game, but like life in general, things evolve and change. I really think it is great that players now look up and pick a man out instead of just lumping ball down the field. I think it is great that breaking hurls across each other and it being called "manly play" is no longer part of it.
Look at the famous games from the 90s, they were hatchet fests by all involved. Pull pull pull even if it goes to the opposition.
There is nothing wrong with thinking more about the game like all the top teams do these days.

The only 2 aspects of the game I have a problem with are diving/cheating to get a player sent off, and the excessive number of frees being given against a player trying to tackle, it seems like any attempt at tackling is a free."
This posts shows you have zero understanding of hurling ,its tradition and rules of the game.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3815 - 09/06/2021 13:21:03    2349194

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Replying To bennybunny:  "
Replying To Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Exactly. Boring is the word. Anybody that thinks these games are anything but are not being honest. This was typified by Derek McGraths emotional,poetic but ultimately disingenuous answers to Joanne Cantwells.

Also, if anybody who proposes the theory that these free and handpass borefests are more attractive to parents to get their kids playing the game should provide some evidence? I can name dozens of clubs in Cork who now have fewer underage hurling teams than 20 years ago. There are very few (if any) who are now fielding more teams."
You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1104 - 09/06/2021 14:10:42    2349205

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Replying To Maroonatic:  "Cork broke my heart more than once but I felt it a privilege to witness 'live' one of the greatest pieces of skills I've ever seen when Jimmy Barry-Murphy goaled against Galway in 83. TV footage doesn't do it justice. That's at least one skill seldom attempted now & one I'd hate to see disappear
By the way your user name alone deserves a thumbs up"
Thanks Maroonatic. I love some of the usernames on here. Yours is very clever. That was a great goal. I remember many great hurlers down the years from the early 80s on. Cooney, Keady and co were my favourites outside of Cork at the time. A special team.
The iconic pose of hurls overhead is hardly seen now. I heard it said on this thread that mothers may not send their children Hurling if it was more common. The irony is, there were never many serious head injuries in those days and now we have helmets, we see less of this. I think it's more because the sliotar is so rarely dropped into the goal area today.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 220 - 09/06/2021 14:17:56    2349208

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Replying To UtahBlaine:  "Thats the best post I've read on this site in quite a while.100% correct in all you say and certainly worth more than two pence."
Thanks UtahBlaine. It's good to know there are a few of us kindred spirits out there.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 220 - 09/06/2021 14:24:39    2349211

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "I'll just pick out a few Limerick but I am sure it could apply to several players from other counties. I have seen Cian Lynch, Darragh O'Donavan, Sean Finn, Mulcahy and two Caseys come out of several rucks with possesion and hold their own in every other facet of the game as well and they all less than 6 feet."
The intention of my post was not to denigrate the fantastic Limerick players. I actually feel that if the game was played in the same fashion as 30 years ago, they would still probably be the team to beat. The players of today are also extremely skilful and are a credit to their families, clubs and counties. I don't blame coaches who are there to get the best out of their players.
However, I feel that this talk of players hitting and hoping in yesteryear with less skill is not true. It's amazing how smaller, wristy hurlers thrived in previous years, if the ball up to them was 50/50 favouring a big man. First time Hurling was prized then as a way to keep the game fast and fluid. Today's coaches do not like it as you rightly say because possession is more prized, but also a more difficult, skilful way of playing that may not come off all of the time.
Not everything was more skilful previously. There are things common place now that would be rarer previously, such as scoring from sidelines. The players are as skilful now as ever. They are just not coached to display all of those skills anymore.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 220 - 09/06/2021 14:34:50    2349213

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree about top players in weaker counties. That's why I have always thought the railway cup should be brought back with proper sponsorship so it can be well promoted. Such a shame it fizzled out."
Viking there is probably a lot we would agree on over a pop. Mainly our love for our sport and the desire to keep it great. I have a sister some years my senior living in Dublin who has travelled all over Ireland all her life to hurling and football games. She can read our games better than all of us put together.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1337 - 09/06/2021 14:44:26    2349216

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Replying To zinny:  "
Replying To bennybunny:  "[quote=Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Exactly. Boring is the word. Anybody that thinks these games are anything but are not being honest. This was typified by Derek McGraths emotional,poetic but ultimately disingenuous answers to Joanne Cantwells.

Also, if anybody who proposes the theory that these free and handpass borefests are more attractive to parents to get their kids playing the game should provide some evidence? I can name dozens of clubs in Cork who now have fewer underage hurling teams than 20 years ago. There are very few (if any) who are now fielding more teams."
You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]I think something needs to be done to ensure the game keeps its edge. The 50 score matches are taking away from it. However, I will reserve judgement as this is league. Championship is what it's all winding up to and let's see where we end up.
I would like to see a situation where 100 yd scores are very rare. So a heavier sliotar may work. I would not change the game too much. Look at the mess football had gotten itself into. Changing rules every year and making it worse.
The game is still a good watch. With a small tweak, it could be a great watch again.
I think other changes needed are for teams to change tactically to combat Limerick and Tipp at the moment. I think just dropping men back against them is no good, as Limerick and Tipp are well able to score consistently from half way, if you are going to let them hand pass up the field with a man advantage. They need to be engaged higher up the field with real pressure on the half back line. Make them play from distance to their full forward line and trust your defenders to win more than their share of ball. If you don't trust them, you will not win anyway.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 220 - 09/06/2021 15:04:40    2349221

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I've always loved hurling and still do but I do wish lads would pull on the ball a bit more often rather than trying to rise the ball EVERY single time. If you have the time to rise the ball I'm fine with it but there's times you just don't have the time. PULL ON THE BALL!

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1223 - 09/06/2021 15:12:10    2349223

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Replying To zinny:  "
Replying To bennybunny:  "[quote=Maroonatic:  "This from a man who has an armful of Celtic crosses link
But then maybe he's a dinosaur too and his opinion can be dismissed"
Exactly. Boring is the word. Anybody that thinks these games are anything but are not being honest. This was typified by Derek McGraths emotional,poetic but ultimately disingenuous answers to Joanne Cantwells.

Also, if anybody who proposes the theory that these free and handpass borefests are more attractive to parents to get their kids playing the game should provide some evidence? I can name dozens of clubs in Cork who now have fewer underage hurling teams than 20 years ago. There are very few (if any) who are now fielding more teams."
You really are stuck in a time warp on what's been happening in all sports over the years and the participation of kids in sport. What is incredible is that you actually must believe what's happening this year has had an impact on it, its laughable. In 2019 lads were saying Hurling was perfect, all that has changed in the meantime is Limerick winning an All Ireland, amazing how its all gone wrong in less than two years."]Yes hurling was great back a few years ago. But that was years ago not now. Hurling has evolved and has not been as exciting last year. I do think it will evolve again but I think we might have to abolish the hand pass. Let's take Limerick for example they will try to bandpass the ball out of defense and will only strike when in the opponents 65. I'm not bashing Limerick but that's what I see happening most of the time the are playing the percentages . I do think the scores are amazing now, as for the frees teams will just have to stop fouling. Galway and Waterford did not have too many scores from frees last weekend.

ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 106 - 09/06/2021 15:22:32    2349228

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Replying To BaldyBadger:  "The intention of my post was not to denigrate the fantastic Limerick players. I actually feel that if the game was played in the same fashion as 30 years ago, they would still probably be the team to beat. The players of today are also extremely skilful and are a credit to their families, clubs and counties. I don't blame coaches who are there to get the best out of their players.
However, I feel that this talk of players hitting and hoping in yesteryear with less skill is not true. It's amazing how smaller, wristy hurlers thrived in previous years, if the ball up to them was 50/50 favouring a big man. First time Hurling was prized then as a way to keep the game fast and fluid. Today's coaches do not like it as you rightly say because possession is more prized, but also a more difficult, skilful way of playing that may not come off all of the time.
Not everything was more skilful previously. There are things common place now that would be rarer previously, such as scoring from sidelines. The players are as skilful now as ever. They are just not coached to display all of those skills anymore."
That is a good analysis of the game and the discussion. The players of today are not these super skilled hurlers compared to the past. The players of the past would have to change quickly to compete with today's players athleticism. The amount of scores into days game has reduced the time the ball is in contention and hurling significantly. The number of players on the field from the past who could put the ball over the bar might be less. Who knows ? What is people talking through their hat is that players in the past hit the ball aimlessly. The players of the past could give a lesson on how to deliver a pass 60 yds. The majority of the passes now are by hand 5 ft or less away. This is effective into days possession game. Will this reduce stick skills going forward ? Evolution will continue.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 1337 - 09/06/2021 15:30:28    2349229

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Replying To Canuck:  "That is a good analysis of the game and the discussion. The players of today are not these super skilled hurlers compared to the past. The players of the past would have to change quickly to compete with today's players athleticism. The amount of scores into days game has reduced the time the ball is in contention and hurling significantly. The number of players on the field from the past who could put the ball over the bar might be less. Who knows ? What is people talking through their hat is that players in the past hit the ball aimlessly. The players of the past could give a lesson on how to deliver a pass 60 yds. The majority of the passes now are by hand 5 ft or less away. This is effective into days possession game. Will this reduce stick skills going forward ? Evolution will continue."
It could well do. Looking at the light sliotar today. It means that a shot from a corner back or half back from 80yds is a higher % effort than a corner forward shooting over his shoulder from an angle.
If the shot from 80 yds was not a gimme in terms of distance, it could mean that a low ball to the corner forward is a more attractive option. More play to work scores rather than hand passing to half way and crashing a regulation shot over the bar.
Again, I'm not belittling the skill level of the players. If anything, it's the opposite. It's too easy for them to bypass half the pitch.
Anyway let's see what tactics teams employ to counter act this. Hopefully engaging out the field, leaving a contest closer the goal an attractive option.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 220 - 09/06/2021 16:47:02    2349246

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