National Forum

Provincial Championships

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I see an article on here where Ulster Gaa secretary Brian McEvoy is against decoupling the provincial championships from the AllIreland series. What nonsense ! He argues that to do so would see the provincial championships lose their prestige and become irrelevant. Does that not prove the case to abolish them? If they are so worthwhile, why would they lose their prestige? The reality is they are being kept on artificial life support and are part of an antiquated and imbalanced All Ireland competition. Get rid now and let's have a league championship.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 691 - 13/01/2021 18:41:31    2327283

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A senior intermediate and junior championship is what is needed, it's obvious I don't know what all the debate is about, get rid of the provincials, they mean something to the winners alright but they have no place in a restructured championship.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1369 - 13/01/2021 19:02:02    2327285

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I see an article on here where Ulster Gaa secretary Brian McEvoy is against decoupling the provincial championships from the AllIreland series. What nonsense ! He argues that to do so would see the provincial championships lose their prestige and become irrelevant. Does that not prove the case to abolish them? If they are so worthwhile, why would they lose their prestige? The reality is they are being kept on artificial life support and are part of an antiquated and imbalanced All Ireland competition. Get rid now and let's have a league championship."
I can see why you might feel that way in Laois/Leinster, but ask Tipp and Cavan what it meant to them to win their provinces this year.

Suas Sios (None) - Posts: 1468 - 13/01/2021 19:19:14    2327289

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I see an article on here where Ulster Gaa secretary Brian McEvoy is against decoupling the provincial championships from the AllIreland series. What nonsense ! He argues that to do so would see the provincial championships lose their prestige and become irrelevant. Does that not prove the case to abolish them? If they are so worthwhile, why would they lose their prestige? The reality is they are being kept on artificial life support and are part of an antiquated and imbalanced All Ireland competition. Get rid now and let's have a league championship."
When you say league championship? What way would you structure it?

Id get rid of all pre season competitions. Teams just play friendlies no need to have leagues and especially knockout cups for pre season

Play provincial cups as straight knockout cups in between rounds of the league which would be expanded from the current sized 4 groups of 8.
Play a straight knockout all ireland cup as well.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2291 - 13/01/2021 19:19:45    2327291

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what else do you expect him to say. The ulster championship is a brilliant competition which is normally very competitive every year and is the only realistic chance of silver ware that any county in Ulster will have a chance of winning for the next ten years. why get rid of a successful competition.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 70 - 13/01/2021 19:30:06    2327292

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Hardly surprising that someone from a provincial council wants to keep the provincial championships.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3996 - 13/01/2021 19:50:17    2327293

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I do think something has to be done but after watching the joy it brought both Cavan and Tipp this year Im lost as what should be done. Leinster is a dead duck and Munster barely alive. Connaught a tad better. Ulster still very entertaining.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1977 - 13/01/2021 20:15:44    2327295

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I see an article on here where Ulster Gaa secretary Brian McEvoy is against decoupling the provincial championships from the AllIreland series. What nonsense ! He argues that to do so would see the provincial championships lose their prestige and become irrelevant. Does that not prove the case to abolish them? If they are so worthwhile, why would they lose their prestige? The reality is they are being kept on artificial life support and are part of an antiquated and imbalanced All Ireland competition. Get rid now and let's have a league championship."
Said before, play leagues and the team at top wins it, none of this Final of league nonsense. After league 8 groups of 4 with 1 from each league . Top 2 teams go on to last 16 open draw. It gives lower teams at least 3 matches and a chance to play top teams.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 563 - 13/01/2021 20:18:01    2327296

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Replying To KillingFields:  "When you say league championship? What way would you structure it?

Id get rid of all pre season competitions. Teams just play friendlies no need to have leagues and especially knockout cups for pre season

Play provincial cups as straight knockout cups in between rounds of the league which would be expanded from the current sized 4 groups of 8.
Play a straight knockout all ireland cup as well."
There's no need for 3 competitions for each team.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3391 - 13/01/2021 20:47:36    2327299

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "what else do you expect him to say. The ulster championship is a brilliant competition which is normally very competitive every year and is the only realistic chance of silver ware that any county in Ulster will have a chance of winning for the next ten years. why get rid of a successful competition."
Well they could be kept but decoupled from the All Ireland.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3391 - 13/01/2021 20:49:07    2327300

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "what else do you expect him to say. The ulster championship is a brilliant competition which is normally very competitive every year and is the only realistic chance of silver ware that any county in Ulster will have a chance of winning for the next ten years. why get rid of a successful competition."
It can still exist on it's own, and will still be prestigious if it's as good as you believe. But it has no place in an all Ireland championship

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 691 - 13/01/2021 21:00:13    2327302

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Replying To Whammo86:  "There's no need for 3 competitions for each team."
Why not?
A huge number of sports have them.
Why not do it.
The sport isnt big. Its 2 sports played in one small country only bar the small number of teams of expats.
A league with 2 cups, both straight knock out, allows teams a chance to play their local rivals, as well as gain promotion to play the best.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2291 - 13/01/2021 23:28:50    2327336

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "I do think something has to be done but after watching the joy it brought both Cavan and Tipp this year Im lost as what should be done. Leinster is a dead duck and Munster barely alive. Connaught a tad better. Ulster still very entertaining."
Keep the Provs or abolish them - that is the question. How about a third way ?

With the new Tailteann Cup created for teams in the lower half of the NFL, why not retain limited Provs for the Top 16 only, with 4 exciting Provs of 4, starting with 8 KO SFs ?

In recent years, the Top 16 could be expected to breakdown as Uls 4, Lein 1, Muns 3, Conn 3 and Others (some to be reallocated) 5.

After just 2 KO rounds, the Prov Champs would be crowned.

The Prov Champs could playoff in a 3rd KO Rd, with 2 winners joining 6 NFL qualifiers in AI KO QFs (teams advancing from both could get byes to AI SFs instead).

NFL - Div 1/Top 16 - 2 equally ranked, mixed quality groups of 8 (1A & 1B) - top 3 in each group to AI QFs - bottom 2.5 in each go down.

Div 2/Lower 16 - 2 regional groups (2 North, 2 South) - all 16 to KO Tailteann Cup - top 2 in each group and Tailteann Cup Champ (or best group 3rd) go up.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1999 - 14/01/2021 01:41:44    2327343

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Trying to tick 4 boxes here....simplify the structure, retain the rivalry of the Provinces, give all 32 teams a possibility of winning silverware , increase games/training ratio so that the full panel of 30 players get an opportunity to play rather than just 19/20 lads....almost impossible to get it all right but here goes...

NATIONAL LEAGUE - 7 matches

Stays as it is with 4 divisions of 8 teams but scrap semi-finals and finals.
Top team in each division is the winner...simple.
Promotion/relegation plus home/away games guaranteed....final position decides where you land in main Cup competitions.

MAIN CUP COMPETITIONS - 7 matches maximum ( most teams will get 4 matches )

8 groups of 4 ( 1 team from each of the National league divisions ).
3 games...1 at home, 1 away and toss for home advantage in last round which would add a nice bit of edge...
Top 2 of each group into Sam McGuire Cup and bottom 2 into Tailteann Cup.
Both Cups ran as knock out from there...First Round, QuarterFinal, Semi Final, Final

PROVINCIAL CUP. - 3 Matches maximum
4 x re-shuffled groups of 8.
Ran on a home/away, knock out basis.
Quarter final, Semi final, Final...

That gives every single County the following opportunities...

- to play and progress in whats seen as 'main ' competitions ( so no giving out about being ignored/left out ).

- plenty of Home and Away games for atmosphere/bit of magic to happen.

- guaranteed matches so a schedule can be arranged in advance

-lots of Matches to give all 30 members of the panel some game time ( if they are good enough to be in the panel they should be good enough to play )

To make all competitions relevant/competitive, there could be a Provincial Cup round after every 2 league rounds ?

17 matches Maximum if your County wins all 3 of their Competitions ... play the matches over 21 week Inter County 'season' with Hurling/Football alternating on Saturday/Sunday over those 21 weekends...leaves 22 weeks for Club Championships plus 10 week Off-season with no games..


If only life was that simple !!

Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 106 - 14/01/2021 10:21:15    2327357

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Said before, play leagues and the team at top wins it, none of this Final of league nonsense. After league 8 groups of 4 with 1 from each league . Top 2 teams go on to last 16 open draw. It gives lower teams at least 3 matches and a chance to play top teams."
Good idea. Makes the leagues more competitive as your division determines your seed. Could even do a B championship open draw for the bottom 2 teams in the group. That would guarantee every county atleast 4 championship games.

Meath10 (Meath) - Posts: 124 - 14/01/2021 10:52:16    2327361

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Just to follow on from post above.

Imagine a reflection on the 2022 season going like this.....

The footballers of Sligo ( or Down/ Limerick/ Wexford if you like ) had an outstanding season in 2022.

Early impressive league form pushed them to a deserved Provincial Final, which helped maintain their push for a succesfull league title and promotion to Division 2 for 2023.

The Cup competition began with a win at home against Kildare followed by a draw away against Tipperary.
After winning home advantage for the final match, we witnessed a pulsating contest against Mayo. While this match ended in a narrow defeat it gave the team the confidence to push on and claim the Tailteann Cup.
This was the Countys first National title in a decade and was played in a packed Croke Park after the Sam McGuire semi final.

The rewards continued for 4 members of the victorious team as they were selected as members of the Tailteann All Stars and enjoyed an end of season trip to Abu Dabi alondside their compatriots on the Sam McGuire allstars.

Wouldnt that be an unreal opportunity for the players of the 26/27 Counties that start every year knowing they arent going to win the All Ireland in the current format...

Black+Blue (Galway) - Posts: 106 - 14/01/2021 11:12:28    2327363

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Replying To omahant:  "Keep the Provs or abolish them - that is the question. How about a third way ?

With the new Tailteann Cup created for teams in the lower half of the NFL, why not retain limited Provs for the Top 16 only, with 4 exciting Provs of 4, starting with 8 KO SFs ?

In recent years, the Top 16 could be expected to breakdown as Uls 4, Lein 1, Muns 3, Conn 3 and Others (some to be reallocated) 5.

After just 2 KO rounds, the Prov Champs would be crowned.

The Prov Champs could playoff in a 3rd KO Rd, with 2 winners joining 6 NFL qualifiers in AI KO QFs (teams advancing from both could get byes to AI SFs instead).

NFL - Div 1/Top 16 - 2 equally ranked, mixed quality groups of 8 (1A & 1B) - top 3 in each group to AI QFs - bottom 2.5 in each go down.

Div 2/Lower 16 - 2 regional groups (2 North, 2 South) - all 16 to KO Tailteann Cup - top 2 in each group and Tailteann Cup Champ (or best group 3rd) go up."
No because thats complicated and unnecessary.
If you are to have the provincial competitions have them open to all sides from the province.
When each province is made up of quite different numbers it makes zero sense to just have 4 sides competing.

People want very easy to follow competition structures.
You would media and the GAA to be explaining this format every week which doesnt help promote the competition

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2291 - 14/01/2021 11:23:09    2327366

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Why on earth would you get rid of the 4 provincial championships when it's the only chance most teams in the country have of winning silverware???? Cause let's face it Dublin will win 8 out of the next 10 all Irelands having won 6 all ready

Irishcelt (Wicklow) - Posts: 149 - 14/01/2021 12:30:13    2327378

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Replying To Suas Sios:  "I can see why you might feel that way in Laois/Leinster, but ask Tipp and Cavan what it meant to them to win their provinces this year."
I don't have a clue as to the right answer is but, we have watched a lot of useless Provisional Championships for years before a couple of teams like Tipp and Cavan won this year.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 264 - 14/01/2021 14:14:36    2327395

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Replying To Suas Sios:  "I can see why you might feel that way in Laois/Leinster, but ask Tipp and Cavan what it meant to them to win their provinces this year."
Sure it was great to see Tipp and Cavan winning their provinces but even the tipp manager is in favour of getting rid of the current system. The likes of Tipp and many other teams will be lucky to win one provincial title over a period of decades. The current provincial system should have been changed years ago.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 883 - 14/01/2021 15:13:25    2327409

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