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Replying To Greengrass:  "I can't accept that in practice Catholicism is lacking in humanity. I see people who are practising Catholics showing humanity every day. Kindness and compassion for your fellow human beings was at the core of Jesus message. Like most philosophies men twisted and corrupted the philosophy in order to develop and maintain power. The desire to gain and maintain power is a characteristic innate in humanity . It is not confined to the church. Look at the desire to conquer, subjugate and exploit fellow human beings. That has manifested itself since the dawn of recorded time. Another characteristic of mankind that has manifested itself even in the face of the most vile, appalling crimes is the instinct to protect the institution. That was particularly apparent in the Churches especially the Catholic Church. It is also apparent in government institutions worldwide. It can also be seen in financial institutions especially banks. A common denominator in a lot of this is that the ordinary individual in these institutions does not partake in this vile corruption. It is those in positions of power who do so. The Catholic hierarchy chose to practise, condone and conceal this vile abuse. Corruption, sadly, is part of the human condition. That is why I can't accept that there is no humanity in Catholicism. You'll see humanity and compassion demonstrated by ordinary Catholics as they live their daily lives."
The Catholic teaching was to help your fellow man and reap eternal reward.I had to be stopped from standing up in the church when a 16 year old ,I wanted to say NO you help your fellow man with respect for his dignity and humanity not for a selfish reason.

There are still lots of apologists for Catholicism about,"I know they did bad but there were also others bad" Its always someone else that's worse in their eyes.

Its slowly dwindling and becoming increasingly irrelevant in our society.We have taken giant steps forward from our dark priest ridden and inhuman past orchestrated by the Catholic Church....an insidious organization if there ever was one.

ONdeDITCH (Limerick) - Posts: 755 - 14/01/2021 11:48:43    2327372

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Replying To thegadfly:  "Now that's a strange topic. Thankfully as a nation we're finally freeing ourselves from the shackles of the catholic church."
and it might be no harm to get totally rid of politics from it either, the taoiseach of the day almost beside the cup during presentation is there a long time too and I noticed it was mainly Fianna Failers who were grabbing the attention with cameras zooming in on them during the presentation too...Leo Varadkar fond of the camera too and shaking hands with the players in and around the presentation box, nothing really wrong with it from their point of view but I think, yes they should be there, but not any priviledged to be nearer the players than anyone else..same applies for President...let them shake hands before the match if they want in the line up and all that, after that they go off to their seats and sport takes precedent...the day of nodding and bobbing are gone...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 777 - 14/01/2021 11:54:28    2327373

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Plenty of priests did a lot of great work to, building parish halls, looking after the sick etc etc .
Id 2 uncles in London who were on the streets and only for great work by irish priest's would have died long before they did. Of course there was bad eggs but there was a hell of a lot of good priests also ."
Priests built parish halls because there was a gap in the market for Showbands. Watch clips of them counting the money and then separating men and woman. Money money money. It was a " do as I say and not as I do " society.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 640 - 14/01/2021 12:45:12    2327381

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "The Catholic teaching was to help your fellow man and reap eternal reward.I had to be stopped from standing up in the church when a 16 year old ,I wanted to say NO you help your fellow man with respect for his dignity and humanity not for a selfish reason.

There are still lots of apologists for Catholicism about,"I know they did bad but there were also others bad" Its always someone else that's worse in their eyes.

Its slowly dwindling and becoming increasingly irrelevant in our society.We have taken giant steps forward from our dark priest ridden and inhuman past orchestrated by the Catholic Church....an insidious organization if there ever was one."
"there are still lots of apologists for Catholicism about"?
Catholics are perfectly entitled to practice their faith if they so desire.
One thing you do have in common with your enemy is you're an absolutist,,judging from your post it seems that until everyone unconditionally condemns the church and its teachings,, and until its followers are consigned to a dark page in our nations history we can never be at peace.


Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 603 - 14/01/2021 12:59:21    2327382

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Replying To skillet:  "I don't for a minute defend the Church and what occurred but I worked for over 10 years as a therapist with children who suffered abuse .

I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about when I say that all of it came into their lives through family members or friends of the family..nothing to do with Catholicism.

In fact I remember well when the head of CARI made a point of saying that the whole blaming the Catholic Church for everything wrong in Ireland was ridiculous and completely missed the point that most historical abuse happened in the home.

So yeah the Woke and offended are just as capable of crime against kids as anyone in society..
The shackles I was talking about means you can't actually point out the fact or anything close to criticism of a fairly insane ideology.
Just look at JK Rowlings experience.. She's a good example of what happens when the self righteousness kicks off."
You were drawing a false equivalent though. That's what my post is about.

You implied that the 'Woke and permanently offended' hold the type of power in modern Ireland that the Catholic Church held in Ireland in times past. Which is plainly ridiculous and untrue.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13314 - 14/01/2021 14:09:05    2327394

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Replying To ONdeDITCH:  "The Catholic teaching was to help your fellow man and reap eternal reward.I had to be stopped from standing up in the church when a 16 year old ,I wanted to say NO you help your fellow man with respect for his dignity and humanity not for a selfish reason.

There are still lots of apologists for Catholicism about,"I know they did bad but there were also others bad" Its always someone else that's worse in their eyes.

Its slowly dwindling and becoming increasingly irrelevant in our society.We have taken giant steps forward from our dark priest ridden and inhuman past orchestrated by the Catholic Church....an insidious organization if there ever was one."
You completely missed the point I was making.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5482 - 14/01/2021 14:17:48    2327397

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Replying To MesAmis:  "You were drawing a false equivalent though. That's what my post is about.

You implied that the 'Woke and permanently offended' hold the type of power in modern Ireland that the Catholic Church held in Ireland in times past. Which is plainly ridiculous and untrue."
Get real. They have a huge influence in the media, and society. Most of them wouldn't know their anus from their elbow.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 320 - 14/01/2021 14:17:57    2327398

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Replying To MesAmis:  "You were drawing a false equivalent though. That's what my post is about.

You implied that the 'Woke and permanently offended' hold the type of power in modern Ireland that the Catholic Church held in Ireland in times past. Which is plainly ridiculous and untrue."
The point that he was making is that both philosophies are equally intolerant and vindictive.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5482 - 14/01/2021 14:19:51    2327399

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Replying To Greengrass:  "The point that he was making is that both philosophies are equally intolerant and vindictive."
Thank you...
To be honest I thought it was fairly self explanatory.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 838 - 14/01/2021 14:58:46    2327405

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Get real. They have a huge influence in the media, and society. Most of them wouldn't know their anus from their elbow."
Who are they?

What influence do "they" have that is comparible to the influence the Catholic Church had in Ireland?

Would you ever give over.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13314 - 14/01/2021 15:01:49    2327406

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Replying To Greengrass:  "The point that he was making is that both philosophies are equally intolerant and vindictive."
He was drawing a false equivalent.

There is no comparison to be drawn between the Church and the "woke, permanently offended". In terms of intolerance and vindictiveness the Church leaves all in the hapenny place.

It's like making a comparison between Mount Everest and the Sugarloaf.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13314 - 14/01/2021 15:06:18    2327408

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Replying To MesAmis:  "He was drawing a false equivalent.

There is no comparison to be drawn between the Church and the "woke, permanently offended". In terms of intolerance and vindictiveness the Church leaves all in the hapenny place.

It's like making a comparison between Mount Everest and the Sugarloaf."
You disagree with me, that's fine but I think you're in complete denial about the reality of Irish society now.

In my experience, the intolerance in this country is breathtaking.. Its a lot more subtle than the Catholic Church in its heyday but equally as vindictive..its just at the opposite end of the spectrum now.

Look at the vitriol the likes of Ronan Mullen gets,
In fact Ask anyone whose voiced an opinion that doesn't fit the all encompassing Liberal ideology..

There's an agenda at work, that if you disagree with it you suffer.
In essence one form of intolerance has replaced another..

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 838 - 14/01/2021 15:54:36    2327414

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Replying To skillet:  "You disagree with me, that's fine but I think you're in complete denial about the reality of Irish society now.

In my experience, the intolerance in this country is breathtaking.. Its a lot more subtle than the Catholic Church in its heyday but equally as vindictive..its just at the opposite end of the spectrum now.

Look at the vitriol the likes of Ronan Mullen gets,
In fact Ask anyone whose voiced an opinion that doesn't fit the all encompassing Liberal ideology..

There's an agenda at work, that if you disagree with it you suffer.
In essence one form of intolerance has replaced another.."
Mullen gets the vitriol he gets because of comments like he made on Savita Halappanavar and countless
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The way the country is now is far better than the problems that existed while the church had much more power.

There's no agenda at work.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2386 - 14/01/2021 16:15:48    2327416

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Replying To OpenStand:  "Plenty of priests did a lot of great work to, building parish halls, looking after the sick etc etc .
Id 2 uncles in London who were on the streets and only for great work by irish priest's would have died long before they did. Of course there was bad eggs but there was a hell of a lot of good priests also ."
Priests built parish halls because there was a gap in the market for Showbands. Watch clips of them counting the money and then separating men and woman. Money money money. It was a " do as I say and not as I do " society.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 640 - 14/01/2021 16:22:59    2327419

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Replying To skillet:  "Think the shackles of the Catholic Church have been well left behind...
Now we've got the Woke, perpetually offended and outraged by everything Shackles to deal with."
We just went from one oppressive church to the oppressive church of woke

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17609 - 14/01/2021 16:24:15    2327420

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Who are they?

What influence do "they" have that is comparible to the influence the Catholic Church had in Ireland?

Would you ever give over."
Won't give over for you sunshine. Dream on.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 320 - 14/01/2021 16:55:27    2327427

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Replying To skillet:  "You disagree with me, that's fine but I think you're in complete denial about the reality of Irish society now.

In my experience, the intolerance in this country is breathtaking.. Its a lot more subtle than the Catholic Church in its heyday but equally as vindictive..its just at the opposite end of the spectrum now.

Look at the vitriol the likes of Ronan Mullen gets,
In fact Ask anyone whose voiced an opinion that doesn't fit the all encompassing Liberal ideology..

There's an agenda at work, that if you disagree with it you suffer.
In essence one form of intolerance has replaced another.."
The so called liberal agenda don't allow for any opposition. We have them on here.

MicktheMiller (Offaly) - Posts: 320 - 14/01/2021 16:57:10    2327428

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Replying To MesAmis:  "Who are they?

What influence do "they" have that is comparible to the influence the Catholic Church had in Ireland?

Would you ever give over."
"They" for a start are the chattering class commentariat who populate our media. Don't kid yourself MesAmis. They wield very significant power in this country. They are every bit as intolerant as the Church was. There is no doubt that this country is infinitely more socially inclusive than it used to be but then that can also be said of other societies in Europe including our neighbours across the water. However, as has already been pointed out to you if someone voices an opinion contrary to the consensus in this country they can now find themselves the subject of a vicious backlash from the so called liberal consensus. People of faith and their faith itself are now very regularly sneered at. How often have you seen the terms like "the fairy in the sky" used to describe faith. In relation to abuse the vast bulk of abuse was and continues to be perpetrated by lay people. What was done by the clergy was beyond description in terms of horrific cruelty but it was only the tip of the iceberg.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5482 - 14/01/2021 18:26:14    2327451

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Replying To Rebel2020:  "Sadly, child abuse is as prevalent as ever in our society. Over 70,000 contacts made to Childline in the first three months of Lockdown."
High number of Calls to a phone line dont equate to child abuse being very prevalent in society.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2386 - 14/01/2021 19:24:40    2327458

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Replying To skillet:  "You disagree with me, that's fine but I think you're in complete denial about the reality of Irish society now.

In my experience, the intolerance in this country is breathtaking.. Its a lot more subtle than the Catholic Church in its heyday but equally as vindictive..its just at the opposite end of the spectrum now.

Look at the vitriol the likes of Ronan Mullen gets,
In fact Ask anyone whose voiced an opinion that doesn't fit the all encompassing Liberal ideology..

There's an agenda at work, that if you disagree with it you suffer.
In essence one form of intolerance has replaced another.."
So you're comparing the likes of Ronan Mullen get some abuse online to the heinous crimes of the Catholic Church over centuries.

Is that really it? Jaysus that's weak.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13314 - 14/01/2021 19:52:37    2327465

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