National Forum

Ulster Final Donegal V Cavan

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Yeah I think we need to ask ourselves what it is we want from inter-county football? I think there's a general consensus that the county fixtures are too drawn out. We've ended up in a ridiculous situation where players on county panels are expected to train for a good proportion of the year for a series of fixtures that could definitely be fulfilled in a shorter time frame.

Play the leagues as they are (Feb, Mar, Apr) and the championship as knockout (May, June, July). Every team gets 8 games minimum. Then you have most of the summer for club and perhaps most importantly a defined calendar for everyone.
Plus, the do or die nature of knockout football will be more conducive to producing results like we saw yesterday.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7110 - 23/11/2020 13:27:17    2313935

Link

Replying To JoeSoap:  "I agree I find their analysis really really stale. O'Sé occasionally has very good insights but I feel he needs someone to bounce off. O'Rourke I think is fair but has a bit of a dated view of things really.

BBC's coverage yesterday was a mile ahead, they were also saying that Donegal were hot favourites but talked about what Cavan needed to do to win and what was possible etc. Gives you a rounder view of things. I suppose it helps that they would know Ulster football inside out. I've mentioned before but I think Oisin McConville is very good. He has been trumpeting Donegal's abilities for a couple of years now, he is a big fan of us, but he spoke on a podcast I listen to about how Armagh didn't shake us up in the slightest and he felt that even though we beat Tyrone in Ballybofey, we still hadn't shown we could get punched in the face and come back. He said it again on the BBC prior to the game, Armagh didn't lay a hand on us and he said Cavan need to go out and show us we're in a game and see what happens.

I also really enjoy listening to Andy Moran talk about the game, like you say a recently retired fella and he is very interesting especially when talking about movement of forwards.

Marty Clarke on BBC co-commentary as well I think he has grown into that role really well on BBC. They always have interesting pieces pre match as well interviewing different figures from different counties etc. What I like is you get a bit of inside knowledge and perspective from the different counties which is always good.

Sky are also very good if a wee bit more sanitised than BBC, but I like Donaghy and of course Jim. Canavan is very good on both Sky and BBC and Mickey Harte has been interesting on BBC the past couple of weeks also.

Anyway, long winded way of saying yes I agree with you, RTE are lagging well behind in the analysis stakes! It feels very tired and same old views, they're usually a couple of years behind whatever is actually happening."
BBC have seen a gap in the market and helped with covid they have went for it.Hope it continues next year.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 362 - 23/11/2020 13:30:13    2313936

Link

Replying To Saynothing:  "BBC have seen a gap in the market and helped with covid they have went for it.Hope it continues next year."
They've generally been very lax with their coverage to be honest. This year has been different as you say, as all matches needed to be broadcast and they did step up. In the past, the BBC were only willing to pay for fixtures that RTE were also showing, for the cost reduction, shared cameras etc. Think it should put emphasis back on the BBC to pay for the Ulster fixtures in full. Hope their viewing figures were good to get them to push this. They don't show rugby any more, but still show Irish football, hope they find the funds for it

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 993 - 23/11/2020 14:14:10    2313997

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "Muckross my old friend. Hard luck. It's a bitter pill to swallow. Take heart that at least you were competitive unlike my own county."
What Cavan did yesterday is exactly the same as Cork did to Kerry & what Donegal did to Dublin in 2014.
No one has a divine right to win anything.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 4986 - 23/11/2020 14:25:55    2314012

Link

Replying To JoeSoap:  "I agree I find their analysis really really stale. O'Sé occasionally has very good insights but I feel he needs someone to bounce off. O'Rourke I think is fair but has a bit of a dated view of things really.

BBC's coverage yesterday was a mile ahead, they were also saying that Donegal were hot favourites but talked about what Cavan needed to do to win and what was possible etc. Gives you a rounder view of things. I suppose it helps that they would know Ulster football inside out. I've mentioned before but I think Oisin McConville is very good. He has been trumpeting Donegal's abilities for a couple of years now, he is a big fan of us, but he spoke on a podcast I listen to about how Armagh didn't shake us up in the slightest and he felt that even though we beat Tyrone in Ballybofey, we still hadn't shown we could get punched in the face and come back. He said it again on the BBC prior to the game, Armagh didn't lay a hand on us and he said Cavan need to go out and show us we're in a game and see what happens.

I also really enjoy listening to Andy Moran talk about the game, like you say a recently retired fella and he is very interesting especially when talking about movement of forwards.

Marty Clarke on BBC co-commentary as well I think he has grown into that role really well on BBC. They always have interesting pieces pre match as well interviewing different figures from different counties etc. What I like is you get a bit of inside knowledge and perspective from the different counties which is always good.

Sky are also very good if a wee bit more sanitised than BBC, but I like Donaghy and of course Jim. Canavan is very good on both Sky and BBC and Mickey Harte has been interesting on BBC the past couple of weeks also.

Anyway, long winded way of saying yes I agree with you, RTE are lagging well behind in the analysis stakes! It feels very tired and same old views, they're usually a couple of years behind whatever is actually happening."
Yeah what has struck me about the BBC coverage is just how knowledgeable the pundits, commentators etc are about the teams. It seems like such an obvious thing but it is something RTÉ could do well to take note of.

Yesterday there were good and knowledgable, neutral pundits for the Ulster final, each one of them knows Ulster football inside out. Compare that to RTÉ yesterday, and Tomás Ó Sé would of course know Cork football very well but I don't think anyone else really knew the players from Tipp and Cork very well during the broadcast.

I've been really impressed with BBC's coverage this year and hope it continues into the future.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13199 - 23/11/2020 15:05:05    2314040

Link

I thought Cavanagh's assessment was a bit sensationalist for the occasion but it was an opinion that was broadly consistent with the odds before the championship got underway (link):

#1 - Donegal (15/8)
#2 - Monaghan (11/4)
#3 - Tyrone (4/1)
#4 - Armagh (10/1)
#5 - Down (16/1)
=#6 - Derry (20/1)
=#6 - Cavan (20/1)
#8 - Fermanagh (66/1)
#9 - Antrim (200/1)

There's a fair number of disparaging comments here about Cavanagh's opinions made with the benefit of hindsight.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 565 - 24/11/2020 11:53:30    2314575

Link

Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "Yes brilliant stuff, compare that to the dross of watching soccer. painful one for us tonight but when you've been following Donegal as long as I have I've seen plenty days like this before but we will rise again, I don't think we'd have caused Dublin much bother if we had played against them like we did today they would have hammered us.
as a sports fan I'm delighted for Cavan and Tipp, great to see new teams winning, only thing as we all know there's a team in Dublin that that will beat all before them, best of luck to Cavan in the semi final, 2020, anything can happen!!"
you were extremely insulting to other counties on other forums in teh lead up to their games, making smug and nasty comments to them. I was observing and I frankly felt you were a disgrace. So it is a charity for the likes of you that ye got the result ye deserved- arrogance always comes back to bite you.

tonguey (Cavan) - Posts: 146 - 24/11/2020 12:04:06    2314588

Link

Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I thought Cavanagh's assessment was a bit sensationalist for the occasion but it was an opinion that was broadly consistent with the odds before the championship got underway (link):

#1 - Donegal (15/8)
#2 - Monaghan (11/4)
#3 - Tyrone (4/1)
#4 - Armagh (10/1)
#5 - Down (16/1)
=#6 - Derry (20/1)
=#6 - Cavan (20/1)
#8 - Fermanagh (66/1)
#9 - Antrim (200/1)

There's a fair number of disparaging comments here about Cavanagh's opinions made with the benefit of hindsight."
Those odds were made AFTER the draw was made. i.e. when Cavan were drawn in the preliminary round, and away to Monaghan. It looks like they are also from after our relegation.

Before the draw was made, we'd have been ahead of Derry and Down IMO.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4315 - 24/11/2020 12:53:18    2314620

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "
Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I thought Cavanagh's assessment was a bit sensationalist for the occasion but it was an opinion that was broadly consistent with the odds before the championship got underway (link):

#1 - Donegal (15/8)
#2 - Monaghan (11/4)
#3 - Tyrone (4/1)
#4 - Armagh (10/1)
#5 - Down (16/1)
=#6 - Derry (20/1)
=#6 - Cavan (20/1)
#8 - Fermanagh (66/1)
#9 - Antrim (200/1)

There's a fair number of disparaging comments here about Cavanagh's opinions made with the benefit of hindsight."
Those odds were made AFTER the draw was made. i.e. when Cavan were drawn in the preliminary round, and away to Monaghan. It looks like they are also from after our relegation.

Before the draw was made, we'd have been ahead of Derry and Down IMO."
I'd have had Cavan in the top 5 without doubt before the championship started. They had been in the Ulster Final the year previous and although relegated in the league were very unfortunate and will no doubt bounce back. I'd still rate Donegal and Tyrone ahead of them for next years championship but would have Cavan in there at No.3 ahead of a declining Monaghan and an Armagh with Mc Geeney at the helm.
The pain of Sundays defeat has lessened a bit but the way Cavan have went about winning and their comments since have helped to ease it a bit more. They won with a bit of class and it's hard to not be happy for them. I'll be rooting strongly for them in the semi and maybe beyond but we'll be coming for yous again next year to get back the anglo-celt!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1636 - 24/11/2020 13:08:44    2314638

Link

Very little comment on McGonagle's elbow on Galligan.

When you play it back it's clear McGonagle has a glance at Galligan before pulling the elbow back. Cassidy wasn't far away and should not have missed it.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 484 - 24/11/2020 13:23:18    2314657

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "
Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "I thought Cavanagh's assessment was a bit sensationalist for the occasion but it was an opinion that was broadly consistent with the odds before the championship got underway (link):

#1 - Donegal (15/8)
#2 - Monaghan (11/4)
#3 - Tyrone (4/1)
#4 - Armagh (10/1)
#5 - Down (16/1)
=#6 - Derry (20/1)
=#6 - Cavan (20/1)
#8 - Fermanagh (66/1)
#9 - Antrim (200/1)

There's a fair number of disparaging comments here about Cavanagh's opinions made with the benefit of hindsight."
Those odds were made AFTER the draw was made. i.e. when Cavan were drawn in the preliminary round, and away to Monaghan. It looks like they are also from after our relegation.

Before the draw was made, we'd have been ahead of Derry and Down IMO."
Fair enough. Here's the betting odd's for the AI from last year (unable to source Ulster betting odds from before the championship): link.

This places Cavan as #5 in Ulster (@ 200/1) and #13 overall, behind Donegal (12/1), Tyrone (14/1), Monaghan (40/1) and Armagh (100/1). Down, Derry and Fermanagh rank joint #14 overall (@ 500/1). Again, for Cavanagh to rank Cavan as #7 in Ulster on that basis isn't as completely outlandish as some comments would suggest. As before, I felt it was a sensationalist comment but just an opinion and didn't merit the level of opprobrium from some posters.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 565 - 24/11/2020 15:15:19    2314733

Link

Replying To opa01:  "Very little comment on McGonagle's elbow on Galligan.

When you play it back it's clear McGonagle has a glance at Galligan before pulling the elbow back. Cassidy wasn't far away and should not have missed it."
Having watch McGonagle now for a few yrs, he's not a dirty player or give cheap shots, it's simply not in him.

Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 39 - 24/11/2020 19:37:34    2314910

Link

Replying To opa01:  "Very little comment on McGonagle's elbow on Galligan.

When you play it back it's clear McGonagle has a glance at Galligan before pulling the elbow back. Cassidy wasn't far away and should not have missed it."
I'm convinced he has a glance. How could a fella not know where the ball was and it 5 yards away from him. Cocks his elbow then to make sure he got major contact

kanu (Cavan) - Posts: 180 - 24/11/2020 23:27:40    2315065

Link

Replying To Gator:  "Somewhat missing the point there much like your county men yesterday :) I was referring to a team under estimating its opposition based on their respective perceived status. Donegal were going for 3 in a row and reigning all ireland champions....monaghan had just spent a season in division 3 and hadnt won an ulster final in 25 years.

Also....12 meetings since 2013 to date. 6 wins for Monaghan, 2 draws and 4 wins for Donegal. 4 of those games were finals. Monaghan won three :)"
Were any of those all Ireland finals by any chance?

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 902 - 25/11/2020 08:14:14    2315087

Link

Hard weekend as a Donegal fan. Huge congrats to Cavan. They had all the intensity, physicality and well able to take a score too. Deserved Ulster champions for 2020, wish you well against the Dubs!

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 902 - 25/11/2020 08:15:28    2315088

Link

Replying To kanu:  "I'm convinced he has a glance. How could a fella not know where the ball was and it 5 yards away from him. Cocks his elbow then to make sure he got major contact"
Agreed. Should have been straight red.

And to the poster who doesn't believe he "has it in him" might want to talk to some young lads who have come up against Buncrana in club games in the last couple of years.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 484 - 25/11/2020 13:13:03    2315192

Link

The McGonagle incident was completely accidental. He doesn't 'have a glance', that's just him realising what's going on as he only had intentions of following his man. There was no way it was pre-meditated. Any supposed movement he made was reflex as he had a split second to react. You don't intend to hurt someone in a split second.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1421 - 25/11/2020 15:13:32    2315257

Link

Replying To benjyyy:  "The McGonagle incident was completely accidental. He doesn't 'have a glance', that's just him realising what's going on as he only had intentions of following his man. There was no way it was pre-meditated. Any supposed movement he made was reflex as he had a split second to react. You don't intend to hurt someone in a split second."
You must have watched a different incident. Straight red.

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 150 - 25/11/2020 17:22:38    2315331

Link

Replying To thegadfly:  "You must have watched a different incident. Straight red."
Ah come on don't be taking the gloss of a fantastic win with accusations like that. No way was it intentional. Good luck against the Dubs

letterkennyGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 25/11/2020 18:08:35    2315350

Link

Replying To benjyyy:  "The McGonagle incident was completely accidental. He doesn't 'have a glance', that's just him realising what's going on as he only had intentions of following his man. There was no way it was pre-meditated. Any supposed movement he made was reflex as he had a split second to react. You don't intend to hurt someone in a split second."
Never said it was premeditated. Watch it again. Galligan is in his line of vision. He realises he's on the wrong side of McKiernan so he does Galligan. Might not have meant to do the damage he did but he knew he was going to catch him

kanu (Cavan) - Posts: 180 - 25/11/2020 18:17:26    2315355

Link