National Forum

Ulster Final Donegal V Cavan

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Couldn't believe that either. 7th? Like seriously, you could absolutely put Donegal and Tyrone out front at the start of the year, but the other 6 (bar Antrim, sorry) are all close and Cavan are definitely not at the bottom of that grouping having been at a higher level than most of them last few years, reaching an ulster final last year etc. Really really disappointed in Cavanaghs comments last few weeks. Last weeks punditry was an absolute disgrace in targeting things Cavan 'got away with' but not showing things that went against them too. RTE need to buck up as the are now very far behind Sky and BBC in their analysis"
Hi Loughduff. Hope you still celebrating. Interesting about rté. BBC are getting great praise and sky. I have to admit I nearly always watch rté but agree the pundits can be tiresome and very biased. Brolly was entertaining but same ole same ole and was always on the winners side. Spillane and Whelan and Cavanagh pure biased towards their own teams. Rté should not allow pundits on when their counties are playing so we can have an impartial view. I actually find Ó Rourke the fairest regardless of who is playing. McStay the most knowledgeable but a bit bias comes across on the TV.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1113 - 23/11/2020 10:20:46    2313699

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Replying To s goldrick:  "Sean Cavanagh said last night on TSG that before the draw was made Cavan would have been ranked 7 in Ulster. Only above Fermanagh and Antrim. Now I am not sure exactly when the draw was made but I'm pretty sure we would have also been ranked above Down and Derry and possibly even Armagh. I used to like Sean Cavanagh but some of his recenr comments have left a bad taste in the mouth. He completely disrespected us last week too by talking about the Donegal v Dublin semi-final . The BBC team are streets ahead of the RTE team. Also I dont even know why Cork were favourites v Tipp as recent matches between the 2 would indicate otherwise and also that Tipp had most of their best players available for a change."
Well done Cavan. Wouldn't worry about Sean Cavanagh it was just a jibe at Donegal in my eyes. Hopefully you will now get Dublin away from croker and give them a game. This will never happen BUT how's about giving Cavan home advantage for a change haha

letterkennyGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 23/11/2020 10:21:48    2313701

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "You're probably right, but do remember they said the same about Monaghan in 2013, and they came through the easy side to beat Donegal when they were All Ireland champions. Monaghan were Division 3, written off with no experienced winners in their team at that time, so no point saying it's fact when it clearly isn't. Changes happen and mantles get passed on all the time. Why can't Cavan join that?

Cavan have a chance, a punchers chance maybe only, but a chance nonetheless. A lot of these Cavan lads beat the same Donegal lads underage, and they have the talent. I suppose it is about belief, if they believe they can compete and win, then they can. What I can see coming into this more is Donegal eyeing an All Ireland semi final, and not concentrating on this, while this game is everything to Cavan. Cavan have nothing to lose, while Donegal have. Over the last 2 Ulster campaigns, including the final last year, which team has learned more about themselves and have more room to improve? There's one thing I'll say is that this Cavan team aren't afraid of a fight, and you'll need to beat us over the full 70 odd minutes and make sure we're definitely dead and not close by with time remaining if Donegal are to win"
I called this earlier in the week, and I was roundly put down. I could see the similarities with 2013, I always knew we had our chance yesterday. I really don't understand how our team were written off so badly, any slight analysis into Cavan and you'd know we'd be close based on our quality of players. Donegal were 1/14 in a 2 horse race!! Madness from all corners

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 993 - 23/11/2020 10:25:35    2313706

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Hello from the artist formerly known as Breffni39

#cavan4sam Legends of men!"
Congrats Breff.

Well done - super performance, great hunger and determination shown by your lads.
Fully deserved. Enjoy.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3333 - 23/11/2020 10:31:49    2313713

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Replying To Donegal_abroad:  "Monaghan and Donegal have an even record since 2013 I believe. Wouldn't say Monaghan are on top."
Somewhat missing the point there much like your county men yesterday :) I was referring to a team under estimating its opposition based on their respective perceived status. Donegal were going for 3 in a row and reigning all ireland champions....monaghan had just spent a season in division 3 and hadnt won an ulster final in 25 years.

Also....12 meetings since 2013 to date. 6 wins for Monaghan, 2 draws and 4 wins for Donegal. 4 of those games were finals. Monaghan won three :)

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 23/11/2020 10:34:28    2313716

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Hi letterkennyGuy, you're right I am a big admirer of Dublin but I get annoyd at the idea that our games are dead because we are seeing the greatest of all time. It implies that the joy of gaelic football is all about the dominance of one team, in one code, at one level. It's a nonsense idea to me. Looking at other threads on these pages, some posters are saying that nobody has come close to this Dublin side since 2014. That is plainly a lie. There is utter nonsense being spouted about them and the state of our game.

If you followed my posts down the years you'd also know I think the onus is on the GAA to get as many kids playing our games as possible and to retain a love of the games up to adulthood, and they need to do a hell of a lot more to help counties without the structures of Dublin to get the structures and supports in place. They need to think critically about central funding and coaching setups, long term plans for counties etc. Every team in Ireland should take the field believing they can do something special on any given day.

The Dubs are always expected to dominate. They have always had, and always will have, advantages because of how our sport is structured. You expect to see Dublin at the business end of championship, that's always been the case. It's not easy being in the same province as the greatest team of all time and the challenges for those counties is immense, and they deserve support. But I'm sick of the negativity in all honesty."
Joesoap: I partly get where you are coming from but as you say in your post about getting every other county up to speed with Dublin. That will never happen because all the gaa care about is Dublin its their cash cow. They get way more funding per head at grass routes , sponsorships, home (advantage) the list goes on and on and on. But you are correct in saying there's a few teams that can beat Dublin I still believe that but that will only happen when its a level playing field starting with taking away home advantage.
Its a sad state for the championship when the league is now more exciting than the championship where you have home and away games. I for one think Dublin are a class team but there's too many astrixes beside their 5 in a row for me!
Bring them to Ulster and the likes of ballybofey or omagh etc and see how all irelands in a row they would win.

letterkennyGuy (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 23/11/2020 10:34:28    2313717

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Hearty congrats to Cavan!!

Fair play and just a shame the supporters could not be there to watch it....it could be the start of good times tho (even if that is depressing for us in Monaghan).

I admit I had a feeling this would happen. It felt like 2013 when we were written off. I thought after the Monaghan game that Cavan would not make a final as they produced a terrible first half and Monaghan didnt put them away but the sheer determination in each game since then has been astounding.

Dublin are a tough assignment....but 2020 is a crazy year!!

Good luck to the men of Bréifne.

Gator (Monaghan) - Posts: 189 - 23/11/2020 10:47:46    2313735

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Still buzzing after that performance yesterday. Mickey and his management team got everything right yesterday and won the tactical battle hands down. All the players were in the correct frame of mind and even if god had of togged out with Donegal yesterday the mighty giants in blue would have beaten them. Despite this we should have lost the final yesterday because of the performance of the referee. We the people of cavan need to keep highlighting this or the same will happen against Dublin as it did in the under 21 final a few years ago when dillon got a black card for nothing and a dublin player then got a yellow card for a worse offence and the same player then got two handy frees to close out the game. There is no way cavan should have won the game yesterday after the second black card. The referee got 5 major decisions wrong yesterday which cost cavan 5 to 10 points and should have cost us the game. Again i salute every single man on the cavan panel and to our brilliant management team. I hope we get a neutral referee for our battle against the magnificent dubs who i feel saved the gaa from the black death as they always continued to play brilliant attacking football.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 61 - 23/11/2020 11:28:58    2313806

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Couldn't believe that either. 7th? Like seriously, you could absolutely put Donegal and Tyrone out front at the start of the year, but the other 6 (bar Antrim, sorry) are all close and Cavan are definitely not at the bottom of that grouping having been at a higher level than most of them last few years, reaching an ulster final last year etc. Really really disappointed in Cavanaghs comments last few weeks. Last weeks punditry was an absolute disgrace in targeting things Cavan 'got away with' but not showing things that went against them too. RTE need to buck up as the are now very far behind Sky and BBC in their analysis"
Couldn't believe what he said, I would have had them between 3rd and 5th and a strong 4th. Couple of breaks in league and they would've went up or Div1 instead of down. Their NO1 now.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 361 - 23/11/2020 11:47:27    2313826

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "Still buzzing after that performance yesterday. Mickey and his management team got everything right yesterday and won the tactical battle hands down. All the players were in the correct frame of mind and even if god had of togged out with Donegal yesterday the mighty giants in blue would have beaten them. Despite this we should have lost the final yesterday because of the performance of the referee. We the people of cavan need to keep highlighting this or the same will happen against Dublin as it did in the under 21 final a few years ago when dillon got a black card for nothing and a dublin player then got a yellow card for a worse offence and the same player then got two handy frees to close out the game. There is no way cavan should have won the game yesterday after the second black card. The referee got 5 major decisions wrong yesterday which cost cavan 5 to 10 points and should have cost us the game. Again i salute every single man on the cavan panel and to our brilliant management team. I hope we get a neutral referee for our battle against the magnificent dubs who i feel saved the gaa from the black death as they always continued to play brilliant attacking football."
Listen, Cavan fully deserved the win and at least one of the black cards shouldn't have been given, probably both. Saying it cost you 5 to 10 points is a bit OTT. Yes, Donegal had their best spell during the period of the 1st black card but its ridiculous to suggest the black card was the only reason for it. We were bound to have a good spell at some stage in the game regardless. Otherwise you are suggesting you should have kept us to 3 points during the whole game. Cassidy also got a number of calls wrong which went against Donegal as well. Brennan was clearly fouled in the corner in the first half which was a scoreable free. High McFadden had his legs taken from underneath him after catching a clean ball in midfield in the 2nd half - no free and it resulted in a Cavan point. There were also 2 sideline balls given to Cavan that should have went the other way. The incident where Galligan got the knock which resulted in a point was a very picky decision based on a Donegal player in the arc even though he had his back to the keeper and was making his way out the pitch. In addition, there was also a Cavan player inside the arc which by the rulebook is a technical offence resulting in a free out. In other words, Cassidy wasn't great but I am always loathe to criticise referees because it is such an impossible task. The important thing is that the team who deserved to win did win.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1421 - 23/11/2020 11:52:20    2313832

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Massive congratulations to Cavan, well deserved Ulster Championship, and they were the better team on the day.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 531 - 23/11/2020 11:56:36    2313836

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Hi Loughduff. Hope you still celebrating. Interesting about rté. BBC are getting great praise and sky. I have to admit I nearly always watch rté but agree the pundits can be tiresome and very biased. Brolly was entertaining but same ole same ole and was always on the winners side. Spillane and Whelan and Cavanagh pure biased towards their own teams. Rté should not allow pundits on when their counties are playing so we can have an impartial view. I actually find Ó Rourke the fairest regardless of who is playing. McStay the most knowledgeable but a bit bias comes across on the TV."
Still celebrating here. Rewatching the match here and loving not being near a heart attack the whole way through it! RTE do need to mix it up, just really not a good insight into things. I'd honestly get rid of all of them, Whelan, O'Sé, O'Rourke, Spillane and so on and bring in some more recent retired lads. Constantly refresh it. They don't even analyse the main talking points, it's so frustrating from the national broadcaster

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 993 - 23/11/2020 12:18:09    2313855

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Just thinking back to the game, when we had that little period of dominance after the first black card Eoghan Ban missed a great goal opportunity. I can't recall how much it might have put us ahead - possibly 5 points? I'm sure someone will be able to confirm. But a crucial juncture in the match.

In saying that Cavan had proven themselves well able to resurrect themselves from even worse deficits in previous matches so who knows.

It's definitely a very sore one for us to take this morning. But I say this with complete sincerity, I'm glad it was Cavan. Just a really popular win. I hope it opens the GAA's eyes to what is possible with proper knockout football.

All the best to the Cavan lads in the semi final.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7110 - 23/11/2020 12:42:33    2313881

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- I think the ref performance needs to be talked about- at a minimum he was influenced by Donegal.
- Michael Murphy's legs are gone, he was a star but is very much on the slide.
- Thomas Galligan is some player
- the Cavan v Dublin semi final has to be in Navan

Jimjo (Cavan) - Posts: 63 - 23/11/2020 12:50:20    2313890

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Just thinking back to the game, when we had that little period of dominance after the first black card Eoghan Ban missed a great goal opportunity. I can't recall how much it might have put us ahead - possibly 5 points? I'm sure someone will be able to confirm. But a crucial juncture in the match.

In saying that Cavan had proven themselves well able to resurrect themselves from even worse deficits in previous matches so who knows.

It's definitely a very sore one for us to take this morning. But I say this with complete sincerity, I'm glad it was Cavan. Just a really popular win. I hope it opens the GAA's eyes to what is possible with proper knockout football.

All the best to the Cavan lads in the semi final."
I really don't get this idea that this was only possible because of knockout football. Do people think Cavan would care less but an Ulster title under the qualifier system? Or that the knockout format was the reason Donegal played badly and would have been more relaxed therefore better if there was a back door? Genuinely don't understand how yesterday makes the case for knockout.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1421 - 23/11/2020 12:55:28    2313897

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Still celebrating here. Rewatching the match here and loving not being near a heart attack the whole way through it! RTE do need to mix it up, just really not a good insight into things. I'd honestly get rid of all of them, Whelan, O'Sé, O'Rourke, Spillane and so on and bring in some more recent retired lads. Constantly refresh it. They don't even analyse the main talking points, it's so frustrating from the national broadcaster"
I agree I find their analysis really really stale. O'Sé occasionally has very good insights but I feel he needs someone to bounce off. O'Rourke I think is fair but has a bit of a dated view of things really.

BBC's coverage yesterday was a mile ahead, they were also saying that Donegal were hot favourites but talked about what Cavan needed to do to win and what was possible etc. Gives you a rounder view of things. I suppose it helps that they would know Ulster football inside out. I've mentioned before but I think Oisin McConville is very good. He has been trumpeting Donegal's abilities for a couple of years now, he is a big fan of us, but he spoke on a podcast I listen to about how Armagh didn't shake us up in the slightest and he felt that even though we beat Tyrone in Ballybofey, we still hadn't shown we could get punched in the face and come back. He said it again on the BBC prior to the game, Armagh didn't lay a hand on us and he said Cavan need to go out and show us we're in a game and see what happens.

I also really enjoy listening to Andy Moran talk about the game, like you say a recently retired fella and he is very interesting especially when talking about movement of forwards.

Marty Clarke on BBC co-commentary as well I think he has grown into that role really well on BBC. They always have interesting pieces pre match as well interviewing different figures from different counties etc. What I like is you get a bit of inside knowledge and perspective from the different counties which is always good.

Sky are also very good if a wee bit more sanitised than BBC, but I like Donaghy and of course Jim. Canavan is very good on both Sky and BBC and Mickey Harte has been interesting on BBC the past couple of weeks also.

Anyway, long winded way of saying yes I agree with you, RTE are lagging well behind in the analysis stakes! It feels very tired and same old views, they're usually a couple of years behind whatever is actually happening.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1162 - 23/11/2020 13:03:55    2313906

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Yah the ref was poor. First black card was an ugly decision that could have cost Cavan the result.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 23/11/2020 13:05:10    2313908

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Replying To benjyyy:  "I really don't get this idea that this was only possible because of knockout football. Do people think Cavan would care less but an Ulster title under the qualifier system? Or that the knockout format was the reason Donegal played badly and would have been more relaxed therefore better if there was a back door? Genuinely don't understand how yesterday makes the case for knockout."
Because it removes a huge amount of one sided fixtures that waste everyone's time, least of all the players.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3786 - 23/11/2020 13:10:25    2313914

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Replying To benjyyy:  "I really don't get this idea that this was only possible because of knockout football. Do people think Cavan would care less but an Ulster title under the qualifier system? Or that the knockout format was the reason Donegal played badly and would have been more relaxed therefore better if there was a back door? Genuinely don't understand how yesterday makes the case for knockout."
Impossible to say how things would have played out benjyyy, would Cavan have come back against Monaghan and Down if they knew they had another day out in the qualifiers, who can say really.

I think the do-or-die nature of knockout is what people are saying is fantastic more than what this means for Cavan or Tipp. The fact that the Division 1 counties haven't had a chance to regroup and get into the All-Ireland series anyway.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1162 - 23/11/2020 13:15:24    2313920

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Impossible to say how things would have played out benjyyy, would Cavan have come back against Monaghan and Down if they knew they had another day out in the qualifiers, who can say really.

I think the do-or-die nature of knockout is what people are saying is fantastic more than what this means for Cavan or Tipp. The fact that the Division 1 counties haven't had a chance to regroup and get into the All-Ireland series anyway."
If the argument is that Cavan are in a semi now whereas would have to negotiate the Super 8s to get there and may struggle then fair enough (but if they are good enough would get there anyway). But to say that knockout football is a reason behind Cavan's win yesterday, in my opinion, does a complete disservice to Cavan. They wanted to win an Ulster title and the presence of the qualifiers would not have changed that.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1421 - 23/11/2020 13:26:21    2313932

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