|
Replying To lilylanger: "Not as tough as being a Kerryman this decade it would seem!" Ya the first 9 months of "this decade" has been very hard for us kerry folk to take with such little football been played due to the pandemic, but we'll suffer on like everyone else.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/10/2020 14:41:54
2295577
Link
3
|
|
Replying To sam1884: "A lot has been said on DC this week and rightly so; but this is a good thread to sit back, forget about retirements and analyse the best players.
Dublin had an awful record after their All Ireland win in 1995; until around 2002 when it was clear they were going on an upward direction! Whilst they improved in the 00's in reality they were not good enough to beat Kerry, Tyrone or Armagh in that era and certainly had no hope of beating two of them to win an All Ireland.
Cluxton was part of that era and you could go through some big defeats for them from those three teams. Did Cluxton burst onto the scene and start the charge to Sam! During the era of 2001 to around 2010 there were better goalkeepers in the country than Cluxton; Tyrone might have had two GK's who would have started for Dublin.
Cluxton was in place for the transformation of Dublin; which was started by Gilroy. Dublin had good players but they needed someone to burst onto the scene and change the whole mentality of the team; to stop those big defeats and to take the game to the opposition. That player was DC; his performances in his initial couple of years raised the bar for Dublin footballers; his introducation went a long way to putting Dublin on the road they went on and brought Dublin back to their traditional style of football; attack not defend.
Cluxton benefited from the t, more mobile players and an attacking mindset and as a result became the best GK in the country from 2010 to now. In truth the top 5 should all be Dublin players but it's good to debate the rest.
People forget how close and how good Mayo have been in the last 15 years because they never got over the line. More than any other era from 2015 they'll be cursing their luck. That Mayo team has to be the best never to win Sam; the only reason they didn't win it is due to the greatest team to play the game; yet they came so close. That and being robbed in Limerick; I'm convinced they'd have hammered Donegal in the 2014 final. Keegan was the main contributor of that team and the only player to stop Connolly at his peak.
Murphy for his contribution to Donegal football has to be up there; I don't agree their success is solely down to him though. He benefited from a very talented Donegal era and the great JMcG. Ulster football was at it's weakest in 20 years from 2015 so winning it give no relevance to All Ireland's post McGuiness era. Tyrone won a few and didn't beat one of the big hitters in the AL series and Monaghan whilst winning it never got to an AL final; big difference from the 90's and 00's eras when Ulster titles were very hard won.
If we're going back to 2005 though of course Cavanagh was key to Tyrone but whilst they won in 05 and 08; the other 13 years have been fairly poor from Tyrone is terms of genuinely competing at the top level so it's hard to put their players in the top 5.
Kerry somehow managed to win an All Ireland in 2009 (throw up had a big bearing) and 2014 (crazy piece of luck in Limerick and the final) yet had big defeats in 05 and 08. They had decent teams but for me none of their players would push past the best in this generation for their contributions in the biggest games.
So my top 5
1) Connolly
2) Cluxton mainly from 2010
3) Keegan
4) McCaffrey - coming back pushed Dubs to the 5
5) Murphy" You're right that Tyrone have under-performed in the last decade.
But how is that relevant in a question about individuals?
The OP asked us to pick the best player of the last 15 years - not to qualify it it by only picking the best player from counties who have performed well throughout that period.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 04/10/2020 15:02:21
2295581
Link
3
|
|
Replying To midlands: "All great players, but how can you not include james McCarthy? Dublin could (and did) manage without McCaffrey, an absolutely brilliant player, but I don't think they would have survived without McCarthy. By the way, I would have Murphy at number one." McCarthy in the reckoning if you're only counting this decade. Murphy was winning co minor medals in 06.
Murphy suffers from being too good. He's played everywhere. Imagine if Donegal didn't also need him in midfield and defence and just left him on the edge of the square, with a mandate focus all his energy on scoring? But the big man is such a modest big lad that he'll just cheerfully do whatever he's asked.
Look, if you were picking players from the past 15 years to be on a challenge team, you'd have him over any goalie all day long. That combination of heft and silky skills is hard to find. Canavan and Gooch were even more skilled, but of course didn't have his power. Murphy's blend of strength and skill reminds me of Frank McGuigan; and, once I find myself comparing anyone to The Bear, then the question about the best of the period 05 to 20 answers itself - Murphy all the way.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 04/10/2020 15:20:09
2295586
Link
5
|
|
Replying To essmac: "McCarthy in the reckoning if you're only counting this decade. Murphy was winning co minor medals in 06.
Murphy suffers from being too good. He's played everywhere. Imagine if Donegal didn't also need him in midfield and defence and just left him on the edge of the square, with a mandate focus all his energy on scoring? But the big man is such a modest big lad that he'll just cheerfully do whatever he's asked.
Look, if you were picking players from the past 15 years to be on a challenge team, you'd have him over any goalie all day long. That combination of heft and silky skills is hard to find. Canavan and Gooch were even more skilled, but of course didn't have his power. Murphy's blend of strength and skill reminds me of Frank McGuigan; and, once I find myself comparing anyone to The Bear, then the question about the best of the period 05 to 20 answers itself - Murphy all the way." 100% essmac, people have been blinded by the bright lights and the 5 in a row.
Anyone with eyes in their head can surely see what an influence Murphy has had on the game of football and for Donegal, he's remarkable, and like you say he sacrifices so much of his own game for the good of his team.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/10/2020 16:02:02
2295599
Link
2
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "100% essmac, people have been blinded by the bright lights and the 5 in a row.
Anyone with eyes in their head can surely see what an influence Murphy has had on the game of football and for Donegal, he's remarkable, and like you say he sacrifices so much of his own game for the good of his team." Jays Tommy but there's nothing worse than a crawler. You really are kissing up like a good boy.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 04/10/2020 17:25:02
2295614
Link
4
|
|
Replying To catch22: "Jays Tommy but there's nothing worse than a crawler. You really are kissing up like a good boy." Your amateur attempts at a wind ups amuse me catch bar :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/10/2020 18:02:15
2295623
Link
2
|
|
Replying To sam1884: "The thread started with "2005 to 2020"; that is 15 years worth of teams and players. Within that period we had a decade where the best team ever to play our game was at it's peak; a team that achieved something never achieved before and likely never will again ( 5 in a row). A team that when put up against his direct opponents in their era in big finals their big players performed; made a difference and ultimately never lost one of these big finals. The great JMCG caught them with his tactical ability but they learnt quick and didn't come back to lose more big games after it like good teams in previous era's or even this era.
Most neutral football people acknowledge and will acknowledge further how special this team is; it's ok for Kerry to mention money as you have done but conventient not to mention the significant sponsorship advantage Kerry had for years (that's another argument).
Of course Kerry had great players during 2005 to 2020 but it's my view they didn't perform in the big tests of 05 and 08; they didn't beat their main rivals in that era and have been fairly average from 2010 - 2020 winning the 14 final which again I thought they were lucky to do.
For those reasons I don't see any of their players in the top 5 from the period mentioned; if it was 2000 to 2010 then yes but over the past 15 years the top 5 I choose were well ahead of any Kerry players in that era but it's not a surprise when you look at the consistent performances over 10 of those years from them 5 and when you acknowledge just how special Dublin were; there could be argument all 5 should come from there.
All about opinions" I have to disagree with your synopsis Sam.Yes Dublin fantastic team. Probably the greatest ever but even from 05 to now Kerry won 4 titles in 06 07 09 and 14 and players like Dec o Sullivan Donaghy and Gooch were excellent. After Dublin no team has come close. Even in 05 and 08 Googh was nt too bad and Gooch s scoring was good. The stats can be checked. The only all ireland Googh was kept scoreless was 15.Even Diarmuid Connolly was kept scoreless for a couple of finals( and by the way he was a fantastic footballer). I'm not just giving my opinion as these are facts so to say the players did nt perform in certain finals is a misleading comment. Even in Dublin s wins not all the players performed well at all times. Kieran Donaghy has scored goals in 3 different finals and Gooch scored goals in 06 final 07 final and 2011 final. Again I'm just trying to point out that some of the Kerry players gave to be up there and I would imagine most true football folk would acknowledge that. Having said that I would go with Cluxton as the top man with Murphy a close second
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 04/10/2020 20:25:14
2295662
Link
3
|
|
Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become.
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 04/10/2020 20:55:53
2295673
Link
7
|
|
I can't just pick one. There are so many great players in the country. It depends what you are looking for in a player. Murphy, Cluxton, Cooper are all up there. James McCarthy is fantastic. McManus. Colm Cavanagh too. Connolly. McHugh. It's too hard.
lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 758 - 04/10/2020 21:14:07
2295683
Link
1
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: "I have to disagree with your synopsis Sam.Yes Dublin fantastic team. Probably the greatest ever but even from 05 to now Kerry won 4 titles in 06 07 09 and 14 and players like Dec o Sullivan Donaghy and Gooch were excellent. After Dublin no team has come close. Even in 05 and 08 Googh was nt too bad and Gooch s scoring was good. The stats can be checked. The only all ireland Googh was kept scoreless was 15.Even Diarmuid Connolly was kept scoreless for a couple of finals( and by the way he was a fantastic footballer). I'm not just giving my opinion as these are facts so to say the players did nt perform in certain finals is a misleading comment. Even in Dublin s wins not all the players performed well at all times. Kieran Donaghy has scored goals in 3 different finals and Gooch scored goals in 06 final 07 final and 2011 final. Again I'm just trying to point out that some of the Kerry players gave to be up there and I would imagine most true football folk would acknowledge that. Having said that I would go with Cluxton as the top man with Murphy a close second" Very fair post and sporting post Mick, great to see those sportsmanship values, you can tell you've been involved in the game.
Colm was a fine player, a pleasure on the eye with all the gifts that separate the exceptional genius's from the very good.
I think if we were talking of a team from 00's he would only have competition from Tyrone. One of greatest matches I was at was the 13 semi, I don't think I've seen so many all time great players at their peak all on the one pitch at the one time. The skills on display that day were ridiculous and Colm amongst the protagonists.
I'll say another thing about Colm, he's a true Gael, the day after the All Ireland defeat in 2011, he got up the next morning and went up St Oliver Plunkets club here to coach the kids as he had promised. That will always leave the man in high stay ding with me.
It's that type of sportsmanship that makes the game so special and it's sad that Spirit is loss on so many these days, it's evident in some of the posts we see above. Still I like to think there is more good ones then bad, I often think people who show bad sportsmanship, never really enjoy the highs of the win. Sad in a way.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/10/2020 22:25:37
2295695
Link
1
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." I always enjoy reading your posts Hermit and your love and loyality to Kerry is nice to see. I'm certainly not anti Kerry far from it; I also didn't say "celebrate" Dublin's success I said acknowledge. I'm not a Dub so wouldn't celebrate their success but as a football fan I like many others acknowledge it.
I'm unsure if you watched the recent documentary on Ballymun GAA. That along with the Boylan documentary were amongst the best GAA documentary's in a number of years. Now the Ballymun show is significant when people are trying very hard to push the narrative you mention. Now Ballymun did spread their net slightly into Drumcronda for example which is fair enough as Dublin geography is different but it's very hard to see the evidence they were provided with significantly more money to coach than clubs all over the country.
What I seen in that documentary is a lack of resources compared to other clubs in the area; smaller pool but very dedicated coaches who give their time. Now I think it's fair to say Ballymun had a very big hand in producing players for Dublin during this era.
I understand location has a factor in terms of mileage but the money spent on the Dublin senior team has not been significantly more than the Mayo's (in particular), Kerry, Tyrone to name a few. Where the money has been put into GAA over the past 12 years or so within Dublin is right around the city and county. The aim is to increase participation, coaching and to improve facilities.
I actually agree with you in the problems this could cause down the road. Having the amount of full time coaches in Dublin; opening up south Dublin to have nearly as many participates as the traditional strongholds and improving the overall health of urban Dublin GAA isn't a bad thing. However when this is translated into the senior teams then it has the potential to cause issues.
However Hermit as the Ballymun documentary shows we aren't at that stage just yet; the Dublin team from 2010 to now was mainly produced by clubs such as Ballymun - the current financial situation had little impact in producing those players so it can't be given as the reason to discredit Dublin's success which many are trying to do. It's also naive or conventient for some to not acknowledge the major senior inter county teams at the top level; the top 5 or 6 are in effect operating as semi professional. This is an issue for the GAA and the likely reason we're seeing the gap widen between Div 1 and Div 2 - look at Meath's league record this year to show the problem.
Kerry are part of this special group though and aren't spending less or certainly not much less on their actual senior teams than Dublin or the other big 3 or 4.
Kerry GAA have had unbelievable amounts of success; producing many greats over the years; I like many football people are in awe of what they've achieved and produced and acknowledge their history. As a neutral I have to admit the "financial narrative" has been mainly pushed by people linked to Kerry which is unfortunate as sorry to say it does come across in a negative light.
Apart from parts of Kerry and maybe Meath I think you're wrong about this Dublin era being tainted. When these players move away from the media control; retire and the country gets to know their journeys they'll be treated amongst the best sports people produced in Ireland and rightly so.
The Ballymun documentary is one club in Dublin but because they produced so many of the Dublin greats in this era it's fair to say many other players would have been developed in a similar fashion within their own clubs.
People have acknowledged Kerry's history; it's time another GAA team in this Dublin team/era are acknowledged for their history making success.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 04/10/2020 23:03:27
2295703
Link
3
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." why are kerry gaa lads so bitter and why have they no shame in showing it?
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2840 - 04/10/2020 23:13:49
2295706
Link
4
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." Feeling better now ?
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 04/10/2020 23:28:49
2295708
Link
2
|
|
Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." Ah Hermit let that one go please. We all know about the money but that's not Dublin fault. Its the Gaa s fault and yes it would be better if the gaa gave the weaker counties the majority but cest lá vie. Even if gaa gave Dublin zero they will get plenty anyway from other sourses as Kerry do. We have no money problems either nor do Cork Dublin Kildare Mayo etc. Would Dublin have won all they won without money? I doubt it but neither would Kerry or other winning counties. Dublin beat Kerry Tyrone etc because they were better. Dublin footballers have been brilliant to watch and brilliant ambassadors.No county gets more from the USA than ourselves. Yes cash is important but one needs talent too. As I've stated before we will beat Dublin again when we are good enoughbut we have been in the last number of years.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 05/10/2020 08:10:20
2295716
Link
2
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Your amateur attempts at a wind ups amuse me catch bar :-)" I may be a amateur where as you would be a professional WUM. But seriously, you should leave the crawling out.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 05/10/2020 09:44:45
2295726
Link
3
|
|
Replying To catch22: "I may be a amateur where as you would be a professional WUM. But seriously, you should leave the crawling out." Lol :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/10/2020 11:07:26
2295749
Link
2
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Very fair post and sporting post Mick, great to see those sportsmanship values, you can tell you've been involved in the game.
Colm was a fine player, a pleasure on the eye with all the gifts that separate the exceptional genius's from the very good.
I think if we were talking of a team from 00's he would only have competition from Tyrone. One of greatest matches I was at was the 13 semi, I don't think I've seen so many all time great players at their peak all on the one pitch at the one time. The skills on display that day were ridiculous and Colm amongst the protagonists.
I'll say another thing about Colm, he's a true Gael, the day after the All Ireland defeat in 2011, he got up the next morning and went up St Oliver Plunkets club here to coach the kids as he had promised. That will always leave the man in high stay ding with me.
It's that type of sportsmanship that makes the game so special and it's sad that Spirit is loss on so many these days, it's evident in some of the posts we see above. Still I like to think there is more good ones then bad, I often think people who show bad sportsmanship, never really enjoy the highs of the win. Sad in a way." I agree with you User and whingers that can't accept defeat get a relief more than enjoyment out of a win. I hate losing but I also hate excuses. Win with dignity and lose with dignity is my motto. I've been lucky to see brilliant Kerry players from the 70 s 80s and the noughties but have been privileged to see Dublin maestro s too along with the Tyrone s Donegal etc. It's called sport so let's be sporting and congratulate winners. Also when winners lose the defeat hurts that much more. Anyway onwards and upwards and hope we get a championship this year.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 05/10/2020 11:35:12
2295754
Link
3
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: " Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." Ah Hermit let that one go please. We all know about the money but that's not Dublin fault. Its the Gaa s fault and yes it would be better if the gaa gave the weaker counties the majority but cest lá vie. Even if gaa gave Dublin zero they will get plenty anyway from other sourses as Kerry do. We have no money problems either nor do Cork Dublin Kildare Mayo etc. Would Dublin have won all they won without money? I doubt it but neither would Kerry or other winning counties. Dublin beat Kerry Tyrone etc because they were better. Dublin footballers have been brilliant to watch and brilliant ambassadors.No county gets more from the USA than ourselves. Yes cash is important but one needs talent too. As I've stated before we will beat Dublin again when we are good enoughbut we have been in the last number of years."
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 05/10/2020 11:40:02
2295757
Link
2
|
|
Replying To CiarraiMick: " Replying To TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." Ah Hermit let that one go please. We all know about the money but that's not Dublin fault. Its the Gaa s fault and yes it would be better if the gaa gave the weaker counties the majority but cest lá vie. Even if gaa gave Dublin zero they will get plenty anyway from other sourses as Kerry do. We have no money problems either nor do Cork Dublin Kildare Mayo etc. Would Dublin have won all they won without money? I doubt it but neither would Kerry or other winning counties. Dublin beat Kerry Tyrone etc because they were better. Dublin footballers have been brilliant to watch and brilliant ambassadors.No county gets more from the USA than ourselves. Yes cash is important but one needs talent too. As I've stated before we will beat Dublin again when we are good enoughbut we have been in the last number of years."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 05/10/2020 12:13:28
2295770
Link
3
|
|
Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To CiarraiMick: "[quote=TheHermit: "Lot of censorship around here today, seems the admins won't allow anyone say ill of Dublin or their players by trying to make the simple point that the well known Elephant in the Room kinda has to be taken into account when judging Dublin's dominance and the greatness or not of those that were part of it.
1884 you say most neutrals celebrate Dublin's dominance and regard them as the greatest of all time. I challenge you that that is not the prevailing opinion. I believe when the history books are written Dublin's legacy will be forever intertwined with serious questions over how their success was facilitated by everyone from Croke Park to the Irish Government itself. Their achievements will always be undermined by the serious questions raised by how it was facilitated in every possible way. And their players need to be judged in that context.
Dublin have a great team and would have won plenty in recent years. But would they have dominated like this if it wasn't for everything we know about how they were assisted at every possible turn?
Would the inter-county scene have become such a dysfunctional system as it is now - where one county is unassailable given the resources they now command and every other county is almost bankrupting themselves trying to keep up?
Check out the interview the founding member of the GPA did with Newstalk last July which really laid bare what Dublin now represent.
There is a serious, serious work of journalism to be done on Croke Park and Dublin these past 15 years. (Perhaps the lads that did the John Delaney book might be interested!!)
I don't expect you to agree with me, in fact I don't expect the vast majority of posters left on here to agree given a majority are decidedly anti-Kerry and pro-Dub. But just because Kerry people on here are vocal about these issues doesn't mean you should shot the messenger because you think "they've won enough themselves".
Dublin GAA is the greatest crisis the GAA is facing, not the club situation or a split season etc.
When they've won 10 of the next 11 seasons maybe the penny will finally fall for some of ye.
P.S. will you stop with the "Kerry have plenty of money yourselves" nonsense. No county can compete with the financial monster Dublin have been allowed to become." Ah Hermit let that one go please. We all know about the money but that's not Dublin fault. Its the Gaa s fault and yes it would be better if the gaa gave the weaker counties the majority but cest lá vie. Even if gaa gave Dublin zero they will get plenty anyway from other sourses as Kerry do. We have no money problems either nor do Cork Dublin Kildare Mayo etc. Would Dublin have won all they won without money? I doubt it but neither would Kerry or other winning counties. Dublin beat Kerry Tyrone etc because they were better. Dublin footballers have been brilliant to watch and brilliant ambassadors.No county gets more from the USA than ourselves. Yes cash is important but one needs talent too. As I've stated before we will beat Dublin again when we are good enoughbut we have been in the last number of years."
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3673 - 05/10/2020 12:33:53
2295774
Link
2
|