National Forum

Ballymun Vs Kilmacud

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Replying To essmac:  "There's a difference between a thump thrown in the heat of battle that'll only leave a bruise and something that could leave you long-term incapacitated. In the latter category:

- eye gouging (all sports)
- spear tackles (rugby)
- sliding "tackles" to knee or ankle (soccer)
- strikes (elbow, fist, boot) to the temples

Any of the above could wreck someone permanently. The rules treat all violent conduct as being equivalent, but stuff like the above should in my view get a minimum 2 years' ban."
I knew a guy done time for killing a man over a thump thrown in the heat of battle

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1040 - 16/09/2020 22:36:29    2292587

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Listening to an interview the other day with Antrim footballer Kevin O'Boyle. He mentioned going into the match with Kerry in 09 that he had a broken nose from the previous game. Darren O'Sullivan who he was marking, elbowed him in the nose and it opened like a kipper. He was blood subbed. When he returned to the field, Darren whacked him with another elbow to the nose. Two times in the one match that was.

James Loughrey, ex Antrim and current Cork player was quick to highlight he got two concussions that were definitely intentional thumps while playing against Kerry.

I'm assuming that beatiful Kerry side who always played the 'right' way had a thuggish culture too then since 2 incidents are too many?"
This thread is about the ballymun gouging incidents safrondon, I made a comment and observation which was relevant to thread, that is all, if I wasn't a kerryman theyre wouldn't be any argument with what I said.

Has a new rule been passed where kerry folk can't comment on dublins issues on the main forum? And does that work In the reverse as well?

IV never claimed my team are clean, even on the David Clifford thread I said he needs to cop on and that Star Donaghy and Galvin need to have a chat with him to let him know what he's leaving himself in for if he continues down this road.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11491 - 17/09/2020 07:52:01    2292608

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OK let's stick to the issue then. Your first comment on this thread was:

'There seems to be a culture of eye gauging at Ballymun'

You're basing that off 2 players 5 years apart with 2 separate incidents. Its hardly a culture that runs deep throughout the club. By those standards the entire game is out of control mayhem played by thugs if we're going to start nit picking incidents per club/county and saying '2 too many' etc. Forgive me if it looked a bit targeted at one county but it is ypur favourite topic from what ive seen down the years.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1970 - 17/09/2020 12:41:42    2292661

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "OK let's stick to the issue then. Your first comment on this thread was:

'There seems to be a culture of eye gauging at Ballymun'

You're basing that off 2 players 5 years apart with 2 separate incidents. Its hardly a culture that runs deep throughout the club. By those standards the entire game is out of control mayhem played by thugs if we're going to start nit picking incidents per club/county and saying '2 too many' etc. Forgive me if it looked a bit targeted at one county but it is ypur favourite topic from what ive seen down the years."
I contribute to many topics on here safrondon, not just 1s involving dublin.

I didn't start this thread and a day had passed before I even read it, I saw what was said and seen that nobody had mentioned the incident in 2015 and considering it involved players from the same club I thought it was relevant to the conversation being had.

A culture is the ideas customs and social behavior of a society, now it happened once in 2015 and not much notice was taken but now its twice in the same place I think you'd have to ask questions.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11491 - 17/09/2020 14:23:41    2292697

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I contribute to many topics on here safrondon, not just 1s involving dublin.

I didn't start this thread and a day had passed before I even read it, I saw what was said and seen that nobody had mentioned the incident in 2015 and considering it involved players from the same club I thought it was relevant to the conversation being had.

A culture is the ideas customs and social behavior of a society, now it happened once in 2015 and not much notice was taken but now its twice in the same place I think you'd have to ask questions."
Part of my motives for mentioning those Kerry incidents were because it was the first time id heard of them. Pretty serious incidents that didn't get even a word from any pundit or journalist at the time but i do remember hearing plenty about that 2015 incident at the time. As well as many other less serious incidents.

You seem to be basing a 'culture' off the back of one or two isolated incidents and branding an entire club with hundreds of memebers of being part of that culture just because they happen to wear the same badge. I'm sure whatever club you're involved with in Kerry has the odd space cadet who cant help himself on or off the field from time to time. I know mine has a few! But I wouldnt appreciate or accept being called a team of whatever's based on the actions of a minority and im sure you wouldn't either.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1970 - 17/09/2020 14:53:52    2292704

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I contribute to many topics on here safrondon, not just 1s involving dublin.

I didn't start this thread and a day had passed before I even read it, I saw what was said and seen that nobody had mentioned the incident in 2015 and considering it involved players from the same club I thought it was relevant to the conversation being had.

A culture is the ideas customs and social behavior of a society, now it happened once in 2015 and not much notice was taken but now its twice in the same place I think you'd have to ask questions."
I'm not sure you could say there's a culture of it based on 2 incidents, but yes, at the same time questions do need to be asked.

It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3994 - 17/09/2020 15:00:15    2292706

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "Part of my motives for mentioning those Kerry incidents were because it was the first time id heard of them. Pretty serious incidents that didn't get even a word from any pundit or journalist at the time but i do remember hearing plenty about that 2015 incident at the time. As well as many other less serious incidents.

You seem to be basing a 'culture' off the back of one or two isolated incidents and branding an entire club with hundreds of memebers of being part of that culture just because they happen to wear the same badge. I'm sure whatever club you're involved with in Kerry has the odd space cadet who cant help himself on or off the field from time to time. I know mine has a few! But I wouldnt appreciate or accept being called a team of whatever's based on the actions of a minority and im sure you wouldn't either."
Fair enough culture probably wasn't the correct word to have used but I haven't heard of any gouging anywhere else in the gaa in the last 5 years and 2 incidents involving the same club raises a few eyebrows.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11491 - 17/09/2020 15:28:43    2292717

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I'm not sure you could say there's a culture of it based on 2 incidents, but yes, at the same time questions do need to be asked.

It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later."
100% cavanman47 a 1 match ban was very light for that incident in 2015.

I was reading about that other guy as well, itl be interesting to see how that works out or will it brushed under the table.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11491 - 17/09/2020 15:45:08    2292722

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I'm not sure you could say there's a culture of it based on 2 incidents, but yes, at the same time questions do need to be asked.

It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later."
Im nit in any way condoning what happened with the player you're referring to but all i can say is it wasn't unprovoked and the injured party was certainly no innocent, and again i reiterate i do not in any way condone what happened in that incident in 2012!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 713 - 17/09/2020 15:59:29    2292725

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I'm not sure you could say there's a culture of it based on 2 incidents, but yes, at the same time questions do need to be asked.

It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later."
Im nit in any way condoning what happened with the player you're referring to but all i can say is it wasn't unprovoked and the injured party was certainly no innocent, and again i reiterate i do not in any way condone what happened in that incident in 2012!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 713 - 17/09/2020 15:59:59    2292726

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* Not

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 713 - 17/09/2020 16:00:50    2292727

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Fair enough culture probably wasn't the correct word to have used but I haven't heard of any gouging anywhere else in the gaa in the last 5 years and 2 incidents involving the same club raises a few eyebrows."
Donie Smith Roscommon 1 match ban for gouging.
Tiernan McCann Tyrone 2 match ban for gouging and stamping.

Both last year. Both high profile. I'm guessing you haven't a vested interest in either county though so you can be forgiven for not "hearing".

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3974 - 17/09/2020 16:38:09    2292733

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Replying To cavanman47:  "I'm not sure you could say there's a culture of it based on 2 incidents, but yes, at the same time questions do need to be asked.

It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later."
It is possible that if a proper investigation into the 2015 incident took place and the player in question was appropriately punished, it is less likely the incident would have happened last weekend.

The punishment is the same punishment that was given to other players who gouged.

You only have to look at an intercounty team-mate of the 2 lads (from another club) seeing an off-field misdemeanor swept under the rug, only for the same man to carry out an unprovoked attack on an innocent bystander a few years later."

Zero relevance to this conversation.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3974 - 17/09/2020 16:40:16    2292734

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What will happen will be suspensions and then appeals and softening of suspensions etc etc

It is an age old GAA problem of dealing poorly with disciplinary issues, and until proper suspensions are handed out it will go on and on and new generations will do the same. Check out Crossmaglen's minor championship final on Tuesday and a Crossmaglen player jumping feet first into a meleé , I wonder will Joe Brolly eulogise about this !!!

Dundalk34 (Louth) - Posts: 134 - 17/09/2020 16:44:16    2292736

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Replying To DUBJOHN:  "Im nit in any way condoning what happened with the player you're referring to but all i can say is it wasn't unprovoked and the injured party was certainly no innocent, and again i reiterate i do not in any way condone what happened in that incident in 2012!"
it was deemed to be an unprovoked attack in court

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3994 - 17/09/2020 16:46:24    2292737

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "100% cavanman47 a 1 match ban was very light for that incident in 2015.

I was reading about that other guy as well, itl be interesting to see how that works out or will it brushed under the table."
Think we're talking about different incidents. The one I'm referring to was over a decade ago, and was already influenced by the then manager by the time the story broke in the newspapers the following morning.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 3994 - 17/09/2020 17:00:21    2292743

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Fair enough culture probably wasn't the correct word to have used but I haven't heard of any gouging anywhere else in the gaa in the last 5 years and 2 incidents involving the same club raises a few eyebrows."
I'm in agreement with you about the crime btw. Those who are caught at it should expect a lengthy ban without appeal. Its extremely spiteful and dangerous carry on and only a matter of time before somebody ends up with long term damage if its not taken a bit more seriously.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1970 - 17/09/2020 17:21:19    2292747

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Replying To Jackeen:  "Donie Smith Roscommon 1 match ban for gouging.
Tiernan McCann Tyrone 2 match ban for gouging and stamping.

Both last year. Both high profile. I'm guessing you haven't a vested interest in either county though so you can be forgiven for not "hearing"."
He hasnt a clue Jackeen... no matter how he tries to disguise it - he has 1 agenda on here and only 1..... dont waste time even replying... he will be on his own here soon enough..... ;o)
Dont get drawn in - see him for what he is... WUM

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3034 - 17/09/2020 17:32:46    2292752

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I'm in agreement with you about the crime btw. Those who are caught at it should expect a lengthy ban without appeal. Its extremely spiteful and dangerous carry on and only a matter of time before somebody ends up with long term damage if its not taken a bit more seriously."
A ban imposed without any right to appeal would run counter to the rules of the GAA and indeed to the law of the land!

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 191 - 17/09/2020 21:11:44    2292783

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Replying To sligo joe:  "A ban imposed without any right to appeal would run counter to the rules of the GAA and indeed to the law of the land!"
Without chance of winning the appeal due to the nature of the crime then, would that be better put?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 1970 - 17/09/2020 22:15:24    2292794

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