National Forum

Should The Rebel Flag Be Banned At Cork Matches?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "There was no 'genocide' orchestrated by Cromwell in Ireland."
Jaysus lad you have to be trolling to get a rise out of us, because I don't think Willie Fraser would even come out with a comment like that.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 718 - 24/06/2020 18:18:27    2281757

Link

For those who are interested, the Cromwell debate in a microcosm:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cromwell-statue-at-westminister-should-stay-says-irish-vice-chancellor-of-oxford-1.4283307

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1803 - 25/06/2020 10:32:27    2281789

Link

Replying To Gleebo:  "For those who are interested, the Cromwell debate in a microcosm:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cromwell-statue-at-westminister-should-stay-says-irish-vice-chancellor-of-oxford-1.4283307"
The main contributor to that article certainly knows which side his bread is buttered!

I wonder if he feels the confederate flags should fly atop the White House as a reminder of the US' past.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4137 - 25/06/2020 11:58:16    2281795

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "The main contributor to that article certainly knows which side his bread is buttered!

I wonder if he feels the confederate flags should fly atop the White House as a reminder of the US' past."
She doesn't come across great especially saying Mandela would back her up.

Context is key I think and given what he done for Westminster parliament I understand having a statue of him there same with Churchill as much as I can't stand him. If the same statue was put up somewhere in Belfast or the likes though it would be a very different matter.

Speaking of Cromwell the Irish Passport office in London is ironically on Cromwell road. Although I don't know if it's names after Ollie or Thomas

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 25/06/2020 13:22:55    2281806

Link

Replying To Marlon_JD:  "It can be difficult to know how to categorize some of these events, alot of the terms we rely on have become overloaded.

I myself would view the famine as essentially a genocide (similar to some famine events in India). I would be more inclined to view the Cromwellian campaign and plantations as an ethnic cleansing. I think when you look at the forced displacement of the native population, the forced anglicization that followed, as well as the killings and somewhat murky/sinister exiles (essentially slavery in some cases), I think it rises to an ethnic cleansing, if not genocide. Either way, it stank.

Its good to be aware of the crap we had to et historically, regardless of semantics, if only to be able to empathize with others historical (or current) issues. However, there is a line beyond which it just becomes wallowing in unearned victimhood, and that can be damaging. So its also good to keep this stuff in context.

I don't really need to see statues of Cromwell torn down in Britain (although I wouldn't object!), I imagine most Irish people wouldn't either. Its just that, if a government starts removing symbols of some peoples historical suffering, while ignoring others, it means there's no underlying principal to the action. Either you value some peoples feeing over others, of you're just acting to placate some people based on the level of noise being made, which is really just patronizing and cynical."
Saying a leader is genocidal and saying they have committed genocide I always thought meant different things. I always thought a leader/ soldier who kills masses of people based on their race/ religion/ ethnic group is usually classified as genocidal where as deciding to wipe out an entire group of people, as the Nazis did to the Jews, is committing genocide. What Cromwell did would go beyond what I would consider Ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing was what happened in Bosnia where there is a mix of a significant number of 2 or more ethnic groups and you get rid of the group you don't want so as to be able to control the area. The land owning settler class were not that significant in number.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 768 - 25/06/2020 15:44:46    2281828

Link

Replying To lilypad:  "What was a white man doing in that part of the world 2000 years ago? They might have a point"
Sure aren't they all white in the bible

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 26/06/2020 15:57:09    2281895

Link

Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "Jaysus lad you have to be trolling to get a rise out of us, because I don't think Willie Fraser would even come out with a comment like that."
I guess if he's going to troll he wants to make it a good one. Ha ha ha.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1083 - 26/06/2020 22:00:06    2281948

Link

Replying To Trump2020:  "I guess if he's going to troll he wants to make it a good one. Ha ha ha."
I remember a Cromwell playing with Meath.

Oldertourman (Limerick) - Posts: 162 - 27/06/2020 00:33:54    2281967

Link

Replying To Oldertourman:  "I remember a Cromwell playing with Meath."
There was a Cromwell from cavan playing with It Tralee a few years back as well.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11740 - 27/06/2020 09:30:26    2281977

Link

Replying To Oldertourman:  "I remember a Cromwell playing with Meath."
Not the same fella.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 369 - 27/06/2020 10:24:33    2281982

Link

Replying To lionofludesch:  "Not the same fella."
Brilliant!!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4137 - 27/06/2020 14:05:36    2282014

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "There was a Cromwell from cavan playing with It Tralee a few years back as well."
I'd hate to be him in history class. Probably very uncomfortable for him.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1083 - 27/06/2020 18:27:49    2282047

Link

Replying To Trump2020:  "I'd hate to be him in history class. Probably very uncomfortable for him."
True, the poor fella although if he has an English background it might sit well with him.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 11740 - 27/06/2020 19:19:21    2282051

Link

20 pages and not a single Corkman has replied(can't see first page of this topic).

Buachaillbui (Clare) - Posts: 94 - 27/06/2020 21:58:58    2282067

Link

Replying To Buachaillbui:  "20 pages and not a single Corkman has replied(can't see first page of this topic)."
Aint many Cork people on here as they do their own thing over on the PRC forums

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 28/06/2020 09:59:37    2282101

Link

Replying To Breezy:  "Aint many Cork people on here as they do their own thing over on the PRC forums"
Ah there's always one or two hanging around here.

By the by, I see Mississippi have voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from their State's flag.

Buachaillbui (Clare) - Posts: 94 - 28/06/2020 21:22:55    2282177

Link

Replying To Oldertourman:  "I remember a Cromwell playing with Meath."
Made a mess of Drogheda

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4434 - 28/06/2020 22:38:28    2282183

Link

Replying To Buachaillbui:  "Ah there's always one or two hanging around here.

By the by, I see Mississippi have voted to remove the Confederate battle flag from their State's flag."
Their mascot is a Rebel, I'm sure his future is bleak too.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1083 - 29/06/2020 12:30:39    2282226

Link

Love Mississippi. Iv got their state flag in my garage. Its beautiful..the Natchez Trace ...William Faulkner, Shelby Foote. The grub..Deep fried Catfish.. The Flag is gone but the history and Romance lives on.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1325 - 29/06/2020 19:02:14    2282290

Link

Replying To bloodyban:  "Love Mississippi. Iv got their state flag in my garage. Its beautiful..the Natchez Trace ...William Faulkner, Shelby Foote. The grub..Deep fried Catfish.. The Flag is gone but the history and Romance lives on."
Elvis Presley was from Tupelo, Missisipi. Would he have made a good hurler I wonder.LOL

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 1927 - 29/06/2020 19:46:58    2282294

Link