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Something we have lacked for a long time is a marquee inside forward. There is no quick fix for this. Maybe Costello will be the answer if we have a bit more patience but I believe our best players should be played in their best positions and Costello is a diamond but he is best suited to playing at 11 as he is an excellent ball runner and a very creative passer and it could have a negative affect on his development persevering with him inside were he has been ok in phases for a struggling team.
With Walsh injured we lack a lot of size from our alternatives but I'd persevere with Frayne and probably throw Morris in too and leave both on own inside. Our counters are too easy to slow down so it's more important to have our better faster link players like Costello getting on the ball early. If you had attacks going through Costello, O'Connor and Caulfield you have potential to put Monaghan on back foot.
We have looked small so far all season. Monaghan's bigger players are all bang average. I would be starting Gray and Jones who have had a tough couple of weeks but they have the ability and aggression to clean out Monaghan's midfield. I'd also start McGowan at wing forward for size and workrate.
I'd be confident we would have the defenders to mark whoever starts inside whether it's McManus, McCarron or Woods.
Monaghan's main threat will be their excellent ball runners like Bannigan, McCarthy, O'Hanlon, O'Connell and McAnespie. There are plenty of honest energetic players whose will try and play to that system but it is a difficult system to coach in 2 weeks. As O'Rourke says it needs patience. But it also needs a better coach. It's a pity we have gone backwards because Monaghan are there for the taking.
happydude (Meath) - Posts: 233 - 03/06/2024 23:02:05
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Very bad performance against Louth. Sunday was bad but remember we were playing Kerry so a bit of perspective is needed. We should have been close at half time but last 25 minutes was a write off.
While we will obviously be underdogs I would give us a chance against Monaghan, Monaghan are no Kerry. If (I know it's a big if) we beat Monaghan things will not seem as bad.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1382 - 04/06/2024 01:11:37
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Replying To bdbuddah: "Very bad performance against Louth. Sunday was bad but remember we were playing Kerry so a bit of perspective is needed. We should have been close at half time but last 25 minutes was a write off.
While we will obviously be underdogs I would give us a chance against Monaghan, Monaghan are no Kerry. If (I know it's a big if) we beat Monaghan things will not seem as bad." If we beat Monaghan which I agree is possible even if only a slim possibility things will still seem as bad. All a win V Monaghan would do is paper over the cracks. Just Like winning the TC cup did last year.
There is no perspective needed because it was Kerry.... Most of us have seen more than enough since the current management came in to decide we are going nowhere under them and a change is needed.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 960 - 04/06/2024 08:23:39
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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher: "i have some sympathy with COR . In fairness to him , While he can talk about Systems of Play , and Patterns and Roles, and Lads fully committing & understanding what their Job is ...talking about it "afterwards" is black to White to fully understanding what is involved in putting these things into place . COR was doomed from day 1 , because he gave his view/outlook on what he saw as the Important stuff , when he decided that he didn't Need to Appoint a Coach as a Priority , . If he knew and understood fully how the game At County Level has moved & changed since he was involved , then he would have known , that was the starting point . Since then he is trying to play catch up. And this is where i have more sympathy for him. Because he is doing "the catch-up" while also trying to look as though he isn't.
He has got to hope that he and the lads can get a result against Monaghan and then string another Good game after that. This is his best case Scenario
He needs to try & shore up his credibility somehow, so that is an added stress, and i feel that the dressing room probably know that its damage limitations for everyone involved now till we exit .
The fault does not lie with COR , it lies with those charged with Putting the long term Plan in place , and most importantly knowing who is the right person for each job in the System . The CB , if they don't have the expertise to understand what is going wrong , and how to stop it, just need to be open minded enough to talk to serious people in a few good counties, and they will tell them their own experiences of how to get it right, and what pitfalls to try & avoid.
I can say one thing for certain. Messiahs , and Quick Fix Solutions, and Wishful thinking ...rarely cuts the mustard in a crisis" Agree 100% Thats a fair and accurate summary of where things are at now. Real leadership from the top table essential now. COR did not bring in the problems .As you say no Messiah will fix them now either.Problems are deep rooted requiring a deep routed approach . Culture change is a slow burner ,but if we see the need to change things thats a great start.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 04/06/2024 09:12:04
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Replying To nobull456: "Agree 100% Thats a fair and accurate summary of where things are at now. Real leadership from the top table essential now. COR did not bring in the problems .As you say no Messiah will fix them now either.Problems are deep rooted requiring a deep routed approach . Culture change is a slow burner ,but if we see the need to change things thats a great start." Sick of hearing this nonsense about "we need a development plan" or "we need the CB to lead from the top"!
And now apparently we need a culture change! More buzzwords that mean absolutely nothing!
This current crop of players are surviving Div2 literally on their own without a proper management/coaching team behind them. Surviving on their talent and determination alone.
Time to start looking for a top class successor now who can transform this group into a well coached team with a proper modern day system. Hard to break down and clinical when they get the chance. And fit!!!
That's the first thing that needs to change and the most important!!
JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 244 - 04/06/2024 10:21:47
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Same old story on Sunday really. Can guarantee you the management discussion post Louth game was, 'Louth have a good system lets try that against Kerry next week', sounds laughable but I wouldn't be surprised.
The usual criticism of the players, club system and underage failure from O'Rourke post game. It is embarrassing at this stage, and then to say anyone that is not patient we ignore is just plain wrong. Maybe he could look at bringing in a whole new system 6 days before a game against the second best team in Ireland, and then just completely abandoning it at half time, but no its always the players fault.
Came home from the game on Sunday and watched the clinic Armagh put on. Armagh haven't won a minor/u20 in god knows how long, but guess what, they have a good manager and an absolutely brilliant back room team, bringing in former Kilcoo manager Conlith Gilligan this year. They are a management team that are maximising the player pool that they have.
Anyone that thinks we will beat Monaghan is deluded, they will beat us by 5 or 6 purely because of how both teams will set up. They arguably have stronger runners than Louth, so would expect us to concede at least 3 goals.
contributingtoamelee (Meath) - Posts: 49 - 04/06/2024 10:28:44
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On O'Rourkes interview where he said anyone who isn't patient we ignore.
Does anyone know any meath supporter who has been demanding instant success from the team or the current management ?? Because I don't.
Any meath supporter I know and have spoken to which is a lot just want to see some signs of gradual progression and improvement over a period of time like 1 year 2 years etc. That's all the knowledgeable meath supporters which in my opinion is most of us because meath football supporters are very knowledgeable imo are looking for. Evidence of improvement and progression and we are clearly not seeing anything of the sort so for him to come out basically say we ignore the majority of meath supporters because they "don't understand" is incredibly arrogant.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 960 - 04/06/2024 10:56:53
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Replying To Blackspot09: "On O'Rourkes interview where he said anyone who isn't patient we ignore.
Does anyone know any meath supporter who has been demanding instant success from the team or the current management ?? Because I don't.
Any meath supporter I know and have spoken to which is a lot just want to see some signs of gradual progression and improvement over a period of time like 1 year 2 years etc. That's all the knowledgeable meath supporters which in my opinion is most of us because meath football supporters are very knowledgeable imo are looking for. Evidence of improvement and progression and we are clearly not seeing anything of the sort so for him to come out basically say we ignore the majority of meath supporters because they "don't understand" is incredibly arrogant." Couldn't agree more. No one believes we should be beating Kerry, its more the 9 point defeat against Louth that sums the whole situation up.
contributingtoamelee (Meath) - Posts: 49 - 04/06/2024 11:14:35
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Replying To Blackspot09: "On O'Rourkes interview where he said anyone who isn't patient we ignore.
Does anyone know any meath supporter who has been demanding instant success from the team or the current management ?? Because I don't.
Any meath supporter I know and have spoken to which is a lot just want to see some signs of gradual progression and improvement over a period of time like 1 year 2 years etc. That's all the knowledgeable meath supporters which in my opinion is most of us because meath football supporters are very knowledgeable imo are looking for. Evidence of improvement and progression and we are clearly not seeing anything of the sort so for him to come out basically say we ignore the majority of meath supporters because they "don't understand" is incredibly arrogant." I would say that the majority of Meath fans would have classed competing in Div 2 (being in with a shout or promotion with 1 or 2 games to go) and even keeping within 10 points of Dublin as being progress this year but instead we've done the opposite. Very nervy league campaign and have been destroyed in every championship game. Yes we won one against Longford, but since then 12pts against Dublin, 9 against Louth and 9 again against Kerry, whilst shipping 11 goals in 4 games (2 against Longford, 3 against Dublin, 3 against Louth and 2 against Kerry). Simple summary is we have gone backwards.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 567 - 04/06/2024 11:50:54
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Replying To Young_gael: "This! This right here, ladies and gentlemen!
nothing against you personally Ed, but this sentiment and mindset is one of the key reasons we are in the mire.
We do NOT have a better talent pool than anyone at the moment and havent in a generation. Minors and U16s are not leading indicators, arguably U20's arent either.
Meath supporters cut in this shape remind me of Comical Ali in an interview in Baghdad in 2003, stating "we have the Americans on the run" whilst hundreds of American tanks rolled past him.
Youre in denial." The fact you cannot see the mess unfolding in front of your eyes is delusion my friend.
Name one aspect of gaelic football that has improved under this team since they took over?
Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 106 - 04/06/2024 12:46:27
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Replying To ged: "What a laugh - FACT, Meath has a bigger pool of players to pick from (due to larger volume of clubs & bigger geographical area). Posters in Meath earlier in season were predicting victories at underage due to "superior players" in county. Assuming superiority won't and didn't put enough balls over the bar." I am not assuming anything, i was merely pointing out based on size we automatically have a better pick imo(almost double). Plus we have achieved slightly more at minor under 20 the last few years(Its the coaching thats letting us down.
Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 106 - 04/06/2024 12:50:24
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Replying To Young_gael: "This! This right here, ladies and gentlemen!
nothing against you personally Ed, but this sentiment and mindset is one of the key reasons we are in the mire.
We do NOT have a better talent pool than anyone at the moment and havent in a generation. Minors and U16s are not leading indicators, arguably U20's arent either.
Meath supporters cut in this shape remind me of Comical Ali in an interview in Baghdad in 2003, stating "we have the Americans on the run" whilst hundreds of American tanks rolled past him.
Youre in denial." Can i also add we had 14 playing sigourson and louth only had 9. That may point to the age profile but also suggests we are better stacked
Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 106 - 04/06/2024 12:54:09
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Without getting over emotional and looking at the facts, Meath are not in a good place.
The team looks to lack any cohesive attack or defence strategy.
A number of experienced players and highly qualified coaching staff have left. Early on.
We gave the management job to a 64 year old inter county management debutant.
Take personalities, all ireland medals etc out of it. Not relevant when choosing a manager.
Should we be doing better. Simply put yes.
As we stand,
Are we capable of winning leinster-
No
Are we capable of beating louth & monaghan in champo - Yes
Are we capable of keeping kerry within 6-8pt -
Yes
How do we do that. Put in place a robust management selection process, not air our desperation in public.
Ensure qualifed, professional staff are in back room.
All Ireland Medals do not guarantee good coaches or managers.
Remember outside of Kerry Dublin not many teams repeatedly win All Ireland FB titles. But we are certainly capable of doing a lot better. What I seen v Kerry was quite simply a disorganised team.
That boils down to management, coaching, organisation structures.
Biggest concern at moment is fans seem to be indifferent.
Indifference is more dangerous then anger.
CB will soon realise when gate receipts and sponsorship dry up that we have scored an absolute own goal with this management team.
Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 80 - 04/06/2024 13:15:40
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Replying To JonnieG: "Sick of hearing this nonsense about "we need a development plan" or "we need the CB to lead from the top"!
And now apparently we need a culture change! More buzzwords that mean absolutely nothing!
This current crop of players are surviving Div2 literally on their own without a proper management/coaching team behind them. Surviving on their talent and determination alone.
Time to start looking for a top class successor now who can transform this group into a well coached team with a proper modern day system. Hard to break down and clinical when they get the chance. And fit!!!
That's the first thing that needs to change and the most important!!" Good man....... I am not happy with Meath for several years now. I am not happy with the no progress now either. Your quick fire answer Get in a" top class man now"that will solve the problem. When there was a vacancy not so long ago how many top class men wanted the job... None..... Why,? I suggest it is not an attractive gig. It's like asking a truck driver to do a long haul trip in a truck truck that needs a complete overhaul Fill her up with dsl is not the answer Furthermore I think you know that also However. What has logic got to do with anything as your post reminded me
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1265 - 04/06/2024 13:25:25
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Replying To Ed2010: "Can i also add we had 14 playing sigourson and louth only had 9. That may point to the age profile but also suggests we are better stacked" Sigerson......
Here we go again.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 960 - 04/06/2024 13:35:38
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The following from a national newspaper sums up a lot
Nero springs to mind.
I believe the same official got one with Sam Mulroy last week…. Who will it be next McManus or maybe The great Banty
A game that played out like a friendly and was all too friendly from the Meath side of the house.
From Colm O'Rourke's meets-and-greets with Kerry manager Jack O'Connor and chairman Patrick O'Sullivan before the game to a leading Meath county official requesting a photograph with David Clifford, the sweetly stench of deference, if not reverence for Kerry hung in Pairc Tailteann.
Like an aristocratic chum that had fallen on hard times, Kerry weren't going to turn their nose up at Meath's bonhomie but it was always about the bottom line and ultimately they showed them little pity.
glenny (Meath) - Posts: 1110 - 04/06/2024 13:36:29
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It's disappointing to hear Colm O'Rourke say that those who are making noise are the one's that they are ignoring. At a time when the cost of living is quite high these are the supporters who are spending €25 to go see the team that is poorly prepared so if people stop going then I'm sure the CB will start to make NOISE once the revenue drops or someone proposes a motion of no confidence in him and his management team and could we have one tonight at the County Board meeting.
Nothingbutthetruth (Meath) - Posts: 48 - 04/06/2024 14:15:59
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Replying To nobull456: "Good man....... I am not happy with Meath for several years now. I am not happy with the no progress now either. Your quick fire answer Get in a" top class man now"that will solve the problem. When there was a vacancy not so long ago how many top class men wanted the job... None..... Why,? I suggest it is not an attractive gig. It's like asking a truck driver to do a long haul trip in a truck truck that needs a complete overhaul Fill her up with dsl is not the answer Furthermore I think you know that also However. What has logic got to do with anything as your post reminded me" Ah yeah, i am sure mh approached louth? Or mcguiness came to donegal to beg to come back?
Go make it happen.
Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 106 - 04/06/2024 14:23:23
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Getting a top class manager in is a very difficult thing to do. Last time there was a vacancy there wasn't too many putting their hand up. The list below is just off the top of my head but outside of this group is there any other top manager available at the minute.
Jim Gavin - Couldn't see him ever going to manage a rival county.
Eamon Fitzmaurice - Great option but the commute is long and he would probably cost an arm and a leg.
Robbie Brennan - All Ireland success with KC, would be at the same level as Andy Mc when he took the Meath job.
Malachy O Rourke - Again has All Ireland success and inter county experience, would be my ideal candidate.
Mick Bohan - Good success with the Dublin ladies and knows the men's game very well too, big question is would he come to manage a rival team
Anthony Cunningham - He knows how to manage a team and has done it at the top level in hurling.
Rory Gallagher- Controversial but a good manager all the same.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 383 - 04/06/2024 14:25:43
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Replying To Blackspot09: "On O'Rourkes interview where he said anyone who isn't patient we ignore.
Does anyone know any meath supporter who has been demanding instant success from the team or the current management ?? Because I don't.
Any meath supporter I know and have spoken to which is a lot just want to see some signs of gradual progression and improvement over a period of time like 1 year 2 years etc. That's all the knowledgeable meath supporters which in my opinion is most of us because meath football supporters are very knowledgeable imo are looking for. Evidence of improvement and progression and we are clearly not seeing anything of the sort so for him to come out basically say we ignore the majority of meath supporters because they "don't understand" is incredibly arrogant." I think it is more disappointing to hear him say that we don't have a Clifford or an OCallaghan! We all know that - very few counties do!! In fact only 2!!
But I think Frayne and Costello are very good and I think if they were playing with a team that was more aggressively winning the ball and letting it in to them they would do serious damage!
I for one would be bigging these guys up - they don't need to be told publicly that they are not as good as someone else!
But….
Please go back and watch the game again - have a look at the scores Kerry got coming into the D - look how little pressure was put on them! If you are going to drop everyone back to the D surely you have to protect it and put pressure on the opposition at that point! It seems amazing to me that we are not doing that!! I am assuming that that is part of the management tactic - and I don't understand it!!
Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 501 - 04/06/2024 15:20:32
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