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Replying To brian: "Joe not having a go at you, think you're a good solid poster. But saying we're well below par… on what basis… this is our level since 2019. and bar 2019 you're looking at 2010 and before. We're erratic and sporadically performing at best. I'd say we're on par with the last years of Andy macs reign, no shame aimed at Andy, this is our level.. 13-16th in the country, nothing more or less and that's been our level for 20 years now
Good solid list of candidates, a few I'd disagree with but looked at least you'll be constructive and give opinions.
I'd disagree that this is an attractive job, there's no love for Meath anywhere other than here. There's not an abundance of talent or untapped potential for someone external to come in and mould. Tbh I think Colm has the best 30-40 lads involved (aside from some who opted out (Flynn, James Mac, Harnan) and unfortunately we've only a handful who are division one calibre players (Keoghan, Costello, O'Neill) From your list Robbie Brennan seems the best option as most in the county won't want an outside guy, but isn't he involved with the admin side of Meath GAA… or did that job just go by the way side.
I see a lot of folks bigging up Donegal (not aimed at you Joe) and praising McGuinness and saying what a good manager can do, and suggesting a good manager would have us like them… would people ever cop on and realise Donegal was a basket case last year but has had loads of talent and 2023 was an outlier year for them like 2019 was for us.. Donegal needed a mcguinness to get them all pulling together, but that's helped when youve the undoubted talent and depth they had too
Unfortunately it will be a long road ahead, our u20's of 2019/20 and 23&24 are the basis of the next 10 years for Meath and hopefully a few gems like Armstrong and Murphy can add to things in the future, but underage is just that, potential…. Look at how injuries effected guys from minor like Emmanuel, Kelly, Corbett and a few others
And tbf the players this year haven't really improved from last year, apart from O'Neill I don't see anyone who's upped their standard. And very few new players really pushing either. The loss from a panel of Shane and James Mac, Padraic Harnan, Jack Flynn and injuries to Conor Gray and Jordan Morris and loss of form of the likes of Sean Brennan, Aaron Lynch.. all things combined has seen things drop off significantly from 2023. Is that on management or the players themselves…a bit of both but it's not solely on Colm O'Rourke" Well Brian,I disagree and think the Meath job is attractive.If a manager comes in and sets us up right we'd have every chance of getting promoted to divison 1 not much between most teams in it.Nobody expects a leinster so be competitive and then stay in division 1 and suddenly your stock has risen as a manager.On your point about maguinees yes Donegal have better players than us but if you put o Rourke in charge of Donegal he doesn't win an Ulster(Derry,Armagh and Tyrone )in my opinion put I think McGuinness in charge of Meath and we'd be challenging for promotion at least and be alot more competitive in games.Belief is one of his mantras.I agree the players do have to look at themselves but the book stops at the manager and we have no belief in ourselves,saying we are years off Dublin and it will take years for us to compete is only feeding the negativity that is around already. I cant imagine maguinnes would be saying that were years away lads.Of course it will take time but realistically we have gone backwards since Andy mac and as much as I wanted it to workout for Colm it just hasn't.You would expect a reaction on Sunday but game was over v Louth after 20 mins and I'd say Kerry will be looking for a blowout to get ready for the business end of championship. Hopefully I get humble pie throwing at me but cant see us beating Kerry or Monaghan.If not our season is over and with it o Rourkes reign I would imagine.
Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 29/05/2024 16:32:27
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Replying To brian: "And you ignored the widely known fact both players excused themselves…same as Conor McGill asked not to be considered this year.. same as Jack Flynn withdrew after a few league games
Should a manger beg players to pull on the Meath jersey? If the desires not there then so be it and a manager has to work with the 30-40 lads who do want to pull on the Meath jersey" You are completely incorrect. They were both cut this year just like McGill was last year along with a host of other senior players while COR continues to bemoan the lack of experience .
Totally agree with poster on how TC papered the cracks. Losing to both Offaly and Louth two years in a row is a new low, that can't be argued. I remember the dark days of the 70's and it feels like that's where we are again somehow
TrimRoad (Meath) - Posts: 6 - 29/05/2024 17:28:03
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Well Brian,I disagree and think the Meath job is attractive.If a manager comes in and sets us up right we'd have every chance of getting promoted to divison 1 not much between most teams in it.Nobody expects a leinster so be competitive and then stay in division 1 and suddenly your stock has risen as a manager.On your point about maguinees yes Donegal have better players than us but if you put o Rourke in charge of Donegal he doesn't win an Ulster(Derry,Armagh and Tyrone )in my opinion put I think McGuinness in charge of Meath and we'd be challenging for promotion at least and be alot more competitive in games.Belief is one of his mantras.I agree the players do have to look at themselves but the book stops at the manager and we have no belief in ourselves,saying we are years off Dublin and it will take years for us to compete is only feeding the negativity that is around already. I cant imagine maguinnes would be saying that were years away lads.Of course it will take time but realistically we have gone backwards since Andy mac and as much as I wanted it to workout for Colm it just hasn't.You would expect a reaction on Sunday but game was over v Louth after 20 mins and I'd say Kerry will be looking for a blowout to get ready for the business end of championship. Hopefully I get humble pie throwing at me but cant see us beating Kerry or Monaghan.If not our season is over and with it o Rourkes reign I would imagine." That's a really good point about belief. I've often thought about how it would impact players to hear COR widely speak out against how far meath are behind dublin both now as a manager and in his time writing columns. Can't fill them with confidence - however unrealistic beating them may be
TrimRoad (Meath) - Posts: 6 - 29/05/2024 17:30:29
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Well Brian,I disagree and think the Meath job is attractive.If a manager comes in and sets us up right we'd have every chance of getting promoted to divison 1 not much between most teams in it.Nobody expects a leinster so be competitive and then stay in division 1 and suddenly your stock has risen as a manager.On your point about maguinees yes Donegal have better players than us but if you put o Rourke in charge of Donegal he doesn't win an Ulster(Derry,Armagh and Tyrone )in my opinion put I think McGuinness in charge of Meath and we'd be challenging for promotion at least and be alot more competitive in games.Belief is one of his mantras.I agree the players do have to look at themselves but the book stops at the manager and we have no belief in ourselves,saying we are years off Dublin and it will take years for us to compete is only feeding the negativity that is around already. I cant imagine maguinnes would be saying that were years away lads.Of course it will take time but realistically we have gone backwards since Andy mac and as much as I wanted it to workout for Colm it just hasn't.You would expect a reaction on Sunday but game was over v Louth after 20 mins and I'd say Kerry will be looking for a blowout to get ready for the business end of championship. Hopefully I get humble pie throwing at me but cant see us beating Kerry or Monaghan.If not our season is over and with it o Rourkes reign I would imagine." That's a really good point about belief. I've often thought about how it would impact players to hear COR widely speak out against how far meath are behind dublin both now as a manager and in his time writing columns. Can't fill them with confidence - however unrealistic beating them may be
TrimRoad (Meath) - Posts: 6 - 29/05/2024 17:53:15
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Well Brian,I disagree and think the Meath job is attractive.If a manager comes in and sets us up right we'd have every chance of getting promoted to divison 1 not much between most teams in it.Nobody expects a leinster so be competitive and then stay in division 1 and suddenly your stock has risen as a manager.On your point about maguinees yes Donegal have better players than us but if you put o Rourke in charge of Donegal he doesn't win an Ulster(Derry,Armagh and Tyrone )in my opinion put I think McGuinness in charge of Meath and we'd be challenging for promotion at least and be alot more competitive in games.Belief is one of his mantras.I agree the players do have to look at themselves but the book stops at the manager and we have no belief in ourselves,saying we are years off Dublin and it will take years for us to compete is only feeding the negativity that is around already. I cant imagine maguinnes would be saying that were years away lads.Of course it will take time but realistically we have gone backwards since Andy mac and as much as I wanted it to workout for Colm it just hasn't.You would expect a reaction on Sunday but game was over v Louth after 20 mins and I'd say Kerry will be looking for a blowout to get ready for the business end of championship. Hopefully I get humble pie throwing at me but cant see us beating Kerry or Monaghan.If not our season is over and with it o Rourkes reign I would imagine." Proud, very good points made.
Looked can I ask you and others who believe that Meath are an attractive proposition to a top level manager, what are you basing that on? I'm genuinely asking as a lot of people will say this kinda stuff and not back it up. Not saying this is you btw as you do try to find solutions
Colm is trying to say that the U20 teams of 2019, 2023 and 2024 are the basis of what we have to build around. I'm guessing that's what you're referring too. But they're not going to immediately bring us back to glory. They will win and lose and suffer some humblings. He's being honest when he says this. Do we want hi. To blow smoke up peoples you know what's?
I've consistently said we're top 13 to16 since the mid 00's. Colm and Andy have tried to temper expectations in recent years. Neither are BS merchants and are trying to be as open and honest with people as they can be. Some people just won't accept that and say their being negative. If they come out and say alls rosy in the garden then they're being overly positive and building too much expectation.
In all honesty they can't do right for doing wrong.
If you're a Mickey Harte or top outside manager and you're looking at Meath is their a couple of players to build around.? A Sam Mulroy or Raymie Burns like Louth have? A Bunch of guys that won two ulsters like Mickey took over? Or a bunch of guys needing belief like Donegal? I don't see that with what's there at present. You rightly said above that the players need to take a look at themselves.
I accept maybe I'm glass half empty on this but I'm trying to be honest with what I see. And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 29/05/2024 18:04:08
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Replying To brian: "Proud, very good points made.
Looked can I ask you and others who believe that Meath are an attractive proposition to a top level manager, what are you basing that on? I'm genuinely asking as a lot of people will say this kinda stuff and not back it up. Not saying this is you btw as you do try to find solutions
Colm is trying to say that the U20 teams of 2019, 2023 and 2024 are the basis of what we have to build around. I'm guessing that's what you're referring too. But they're not going to immediately bring us back to glory. They will win and lose and suffer some humblings. He's being honest when he says this. Do we want hi. To blow smoke up peoples you know what's?
I've consistently said we're top 13 to16 since the mid 00's. Colm and Andy have tried to temper expectations in recent years. Neither are BS merchants and are trying to be as open and honest with people as they can be. Some people just won't accept that and say their being negative. If they come out and say alls rosy in the garden then they're being overly positive and building too much expectation.
In all honesty they can't do right for doing wrong.
If you're a Mickey Harte or top outside manager and you're looking at Meath is their a couple of players to build around.? A Sam Mulroy or Raymie Burns like Louth have? A Bunch of guys that won two ulsters like Mickey took over? Or a bunch of guys needing belief like Donegal? I don't see that with what's there at present. You rightly said above that the players need to take a look at themselves.
I accept maybe I'm glass half empty on this but I'm trying to be honest with what I see. And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely." And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up.
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 29/05/2024 21:05:18
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Replying To brian: "Proud, very good points made.
Looked can I ask you and others who believe that Meath are an attractive proposition to a top level manager, what are you basing that on? I'm genuinely asking as a lot of people will say this kinda stuff and not back it up. Not saying this is you btw as you do try to find solutions
Colm is trying to say that the U20 teams of 2019, 2023 and 2024 are the basis of what we have to build around. I'm guessing that's what you're referring too. But they're not going to immediately bring us back to glory. They will win and lose and suffer some humblings. He's being honest when he says this. Do we want hi. To blow smoke up peoples you know what's?
I've consistently said we're top 13 to16 since the mid 00's. Colm and Andy have tried to temper expectations in recent years. Neither are BS merchants and are trying to be as open and honest with people as they can be. Some people just won't accept that and say their being negative. If they come out and say alls rosy in the garden then they're being overly positive and building too much expectation.
In all honesty they can't do right for doing wrong.
If you're a Mickey Harte or top outside manager and you're looking at Meath is their a couple of players to build around.? A Sam Mulroy or Raymie Burns like Louth have? A Bunch of guys that won two ulsters like Mickey took over? Or a bunch of guys needing belief like Donegal? I don't see that with what's there at present. You rightly said above that the players need to take a look at themselves.
I accept maybe I'm glass half empty on this but I'm trying to be honest with what I see. And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely." This is a fair question. I like this exchange in The West Wing:
Russell: You play baseball coach for a moment. Two players run to first. They both have the same time, but one has perfect form, the other, lousy form. Which one do you pick?
Will: The one with lousy form.
Russell: 'Cause teach him the right form...
Will: And he beats the other guy - it's a neat analogy...
Meath are the decent runner with lousy form. That's an attractive prospect to a manager. They are not set-up well at all and STILL finished the league level with the best-prepared Louth team in 50 years. Think where they could be if they had a game plan. A manager could come in, just implement the basics of what top-level teams are doing in terms of S&C, setting a clear defensive plan, a clear attacking plan, a clear kickout plan, a clear plan B and plan C and I honestly think they'd be in Div 1 in no time and the guy would look a genius.
I don't think this has always been the case. I had some minor grips about McEntee's management but I think he was getting close to 100% out of the team. I think this is a stronger group of players with a weaker manager. I was hoping up until Saturday that COR would pull a rabbit out of a hat, but he didn't. It's clear there either is no plan, or the players don't understand the plan (I stole this last line from Michael Murphy who said it today on a podcast - not a pundit known for putting the boot in unnecessarily).
None of this is to let the CB off the hook. If a manager did come in and get the most out of this team we'd still top out at being '14-23 Monaghan levels, tough to beat and hanging on in Div 1. But I'd bite your hand off for that.
MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 29/05/2024 21:34:26
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The indirect poster.....................You dont need to have an origional idea .You play the field.You stand well back and wait till all views are nearly exhausted, You may mark up all views even dish out praise ,you pick a bit of others views and parcel them up and present them as your own. You play it safe to get to the top of imaginery leaderboard .That could be your sole focus. Politicians do it all the time......nothing origional...just game playing in an attempt to look wise. Nevertheless at these times of low morale maybe amusement becomes more valuable even if its only playing "spot the ball"
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 29/05/2024 21:45:56
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Replying To brian: "Proud, very good points made.
Looked can I ask you and others who believe that Meath are an attractive proposition to a top level manager, what are you basing that on? I'm genuinely asking as a lot of people will say this kinda stuff and not back it up. Not saying this is you btw as you do try to find solutions
Colm is trying to say that the U20 teams of 2019, 2023 and 2024 are the basis of what we have to build around. I'm guessing that's what you're referring too. But they're not going to immediately bring us back to glory. They will win and lose and suffer some humblings. He's being honest when he says this. Do we want hi. To blow smoke up peoples you know what's?
I've consistently said we're top 13 to16 since the mid 00's. Colm and Andy have tried to temper expectations in recent years. Neither are BS merchants and are trying to be as open and honest with people as they can be. Some people just won't accept that and say their being negative. If they come out and say alls rosy in the garden then they're being overly positive and building too much expectation.
In all honesty they can't do right for doing wrong.
If you're a Mickey Harte or top outside manager and you're looking at Meath is their a couple of players to build around.? A Sam Mulroy or Raymie Burns like Louth have? A Bunch of guys that won two ulsters like Mickey took over? Or a bunch of guys needing belief like Donegal? I don't see that with what's there at present. You rightly said above that the players need to take a look at themselves.
I accept maybe I'm glass half empty on this but I'm trying to be honest with what I see. And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely." Absolutely structurally we're not maximising elite player development and that's not on the senior manager. But the job of a senior manager is to get the most out of what he has and COR and his coaching team are absolutely not doing that.
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 29/05/2024 22:14:15
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Replying To WhyTheLongFace: "And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up." Here was Michael Murphy's thoughts on the matter on the second captains podcast
Talking about COR and is he fit to be an inter county manager
"I for the life of me couldn't (identify a pattern of play) watching Meath, still to this day I don't know what they're doing. Even the Tailteann Cup final against Down was really really good but it was just based on unbelievable individual pieces of play. It was really strong, their midfield kicking excellent scores from distance, from all areas but there was no pattern to anything that was going on"
It was then put to Paul Flynn.
"I totally agree with what Murph said. And there's good players there. I really believe some of these players can grow into being a really solid team that should be winning that game at the weekend. But with no defensive clarity which they currently have and the decision making and skill execution up front for me screams no structure and they're not sure whether they should shoot. So the execution looks really bad because they're not working it to a position for a pattern of play they've worked on in training. So it all goes back to me to not having any type of gameplan or not having clarity on what the game plan is. You can look really bad as a player where there's not joined up thinking from defense to attack if there's not clarity on what everybody is trying to achieve. It has to fall at the manager, that is their role."
That is a very damning report from two outsiders with no horse in the race
LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 29/05/2024 22:34:42
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With everything that's being said here, how do we see Kerry game going? I think we have to have some sort of sting in the tale after last weekend. We're at home and we have to make most of that. Cork and Clare gave them decent games and we're probably at that level. Could honestly see a performance and lose by 4/5 points with a determined defensive display. Lads up front have to start kicking a few scores though, don't think we've scored more than 1-11 in any game this year? Kerry not the most defensive team and we're at home so you've got to be hoping we can get a good score. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but don't think we can be that bad again. Would be a great to have a massive crowd there and get behind the team no matter what as we still have everything to play for.
NYRoyal (USA) - Posts: 31 - 29/05/2024 23:55:32
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Replying To brian: "Proud, very good points made.
Looked can I ask you and others who believe that Meath are an attractive proposition to a top level manager, what are you basing that on? I'm genuinely asking as a lot of people will say this kinda stuff and not back it up. Not saying this is you btw as you do try to find solutions
Colm is trying to say that the U20 teams of 2019, 2023 and 2024 are the basis of what we have to build around. I'm guessing that's what you're referring too. But they're not going to immediately bring us back to glory. They will win and lose and suffer some humblings. He's being honest when he says this. Do we want hi. To blow smoke up peoples you know what's?
I've consistently said we're top 13 to16 since the mid 00's. Colm and Andy have tried to temper expectations in recent years. Neither are BS merchants and are trying to be as open and honest with people as they can be. Some people just won't accept that and say their being negative. If they come out and say alls rosy in the garden then they're being overly positive and building too much expectation.
In all honesty they can't do right for doing wrong.
If you're a Mickey Harte or top outside manager and you're looking at Meath is their a couple of players to build around.? A Sam Mulroy or Raymie Burns like Louth have? A Bunch of guys that won two ulsters like Mickey took over? Or a bunch of guys needing belief like Donegal? I don't see that with what's there at present. You rightly said above that the players need to take a look at themselves.
I accept maybe I'm glass half empty on this but I'm trying to be honest with what I see. And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely." Well Brian,I'm basing it on the fact over the league taking out the Armagh and Donegal games we were competitive.If we had a proper gameplan and structure I believe we beat Fermanagh,Cork at home and Cavan away which gives us another 4 points.If we had a proper structure in place I believe we would have been alot closer to Armaghand possiblyturned them over.We had a free reign knowing we had a place in the championship and that shouldve released a bit of pressure .but didn't seem like it.Maybe you're right and we are at that certain level but I look at Monaghan,Roscommon over the last few years and think what's stopping us going and staying in division 1 and beating upper tier teams.I also think the young lads coming through from leinster and all Ireland successes could inject new like into us but need to be coached a plan and truly believe in it and ourselves.I think there is a good solid base to work with.Im not saying we are top job and managers would be falling over to take us on but I can see why someone might look at us and say well there is a chance I could have them fighting for promotion and make them hard to beat and worst case scenario I finish mid table and no harm done..I believe there is a big support waiting to lift off,you only have to see the crowd that turned up for the ladies a couple of years ago and see what it meant to them to support their county.I agree with you that we probably are a 11 to 16 team but I dont think there is much between at least 6 and 11 so we should be aiming for that.Youre probably right Brian and maybe I am deluded but you gotta have hope and I will always think we can strive for better.
Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 30/05/2024 00:34:09
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Replying To NYRoyal: "With everything that's being said here, how do we see Kerry game going? I think we have to have some sort of sting in the tale after last weekend. We're at home and we have to make most of that. Cork and Clare gave them decent games and we're probably at that level. Could honestly see a performance and lose by 4/5 points with a determined defensive display. Lads up front have to start kicking a few scores though, don't think we've scored more than 1-11 in any game this year? Kerry not the most defensive team and we're at home so you've got to be hoping we can get a good score. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but don't think we can be that bad again. Would be a great to have a massive crowd there and get behind the team no matter what as we still have everything to play for." Other then longford game, I don't think we have got up above 12 scores a game all year, I don't see that changing. I think we scored 2 or 3 goals in the league, 2 of them were brilliant individual costello goals, not team efforts.....we are really struggling in this area. 2 11 or 2 12 really keeps the opposition honest at least, but we are more then likely gonna end up with just the 11 or 12 points. Hard to see kerry get less then 2 15 / 2 16 or so.
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 30/05/2024 07:31:49
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Replying To NYRoyal: "With everything that's being said here, how do we see Kerry game going? I think we have to have some sort of sting in the tale after last weekend. We're at home and we have to make most of that. Cork and Clare gave them decent games and we're probably at that level. Could honestly see a performance and lose by 4/5 points with a determined defensive display. Lads up front have to start kicking a few scores though, don't think we've scored more than 1-11 in any game this year? Kerry not the most defensive team and we're at home so you've got to be hoping we can get a good score. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but don't think we can be that bad again. Would be a great to have a massive crowd there and get behind the team no matter what as we still have everything to play for." We will lose by as many as Kerry decide they want to beat us by. Simple.
They might put her in to neutral at HT and coast home for a 7/10 point win. Or they might keep going full throttle because its nearing the business end of the championship and they want to get up to speed. If they decide to do this I really fear for what the scoreline might be
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 30/05/2024 08:58:32
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Replying To Proudroyal: "Well Brian,I'm basing it on the fact over the league taking out the Armagh and Donegal games we were competitive.If we had a proper gameplan and structure I believe we beat Fermanagh,Cork at home and Cavan away which gives us another 4 points.If we had a proper structure in place I believe we would have been alot closer to Armaghand possiblyturned them over.We had a free reign knowing we had a place in the championship and that shouldve released a bit of pressure .but didn't seem like it.Maybe you're right and we are at that certain level but I look at Monaghan,Roscommon over the last few years and think what's stopping us going and staying in division 1 and beating upper tier teams.I also think the young lads coming through from leinster and all Ireland successes could inject new like into us but need to be coached a plan and truly believe in it and ourselves.I think there is a good solid base to work with.Im not saying we are top job and managers would be falling over to take us on but I can see why someone might look at us and say well there is a chance I could have them fighting for promotion and make them hard to beat and worst case scenario I finish mid table and no harm done..I believe there is a big support waiting to lift off,you only have to see the crowd that turned up for the ladies a couple of years ago and see what it meant to them to support their county.I agree with you that we probably are a 11 to 16 team but I dont think there is much between at least 6 and 11 so we should be aiming for that.Youre probably right Brian and maybe I am deluded but you gotta have hope and I will always think we can strive for better." Some good points made on here in the last few days which is great to see. I think there needs to be more debate on how the team is performing and I feel they are being somewhat let off the hook due to the increasing apathy towards Meath football and the championship in general.
One point I am not so sure about was that the current team is better/has more potential than Andy's. I'm not sure I see it. Let's look at Andy's best team in 2019: Conor McGill, Seamus Lavin, Donal Keoghan, Bryan Menton, Cillian O'Sullivan, Brian McMahon, Mickey Newman.
I don't see anyone on the current team as good as that spine. Of the two left from that list, Keogan and O'Sullivan are nearing the end of their IC careers too.
It's hard to argue now that COR isn't getting the best out of them. I called for patience during the league as the overall performance was about par. But to go into a Louth game with a 6 week break and come out with 9 points to show for yourself is very disappointing.
But, going back to my original point, what is the ceiling of this team? Is it much better than what they're currently producing? By using the 2019 team as a measuring stick (and that team ranked 8th after a favourable qualifier draw), I'm not sure this team can achieve much more than being 12th or so in the country. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
Spoofer (Meath) - Posts: 51 - 30/05/2024 09:03:25
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I see brian is back to writing essays after his rant about people writing more than 100 lines on this forum! :)
Lot of lads laughed at me at the start of the year when I called our CORs lack of defensive system and structure that will lead to no progression this year! And now here we are ... not that I thought it would be this bad.
Same lads now calling for a change of guard and some of the names Im seeing makes me believe you are not understanding the major issues here! All i saw mentioned were more Meath men with little or no senior intercounty experience.
Firstly, this is all CORs problem. It doesn't matter how limited a team may be (And i think you are wrong here too as in pound for pound we have as good a bunch of players than the likes of Louth and not far off the Donegals either) it doesnt excuse poor tactics and game plans etc.. and thats what made us so bad this year. Those Louth goals you wouldnt see happen at an U16 match!!
And I totally disagree with brian in that we would be Div 1 now and probably doing well in the AI if McGuinness was in charge!
Great managers and coaches can make average players look like superstars and thats through proper team systems where every player knows their job inside out! And are fit enough to execute their roles.
Donegal is not full of cliffords or Kilkennys - In fact if you took those Donegal players and put them in a current Meath setup they would be no different to what we have today.
It is ALL about the proper Management and coaching and giving in to the fact that we need to transform these players into modern day athletes playing modern day football.
And again.... that doesnt come from panels of CB officials drawing up plans or putting a fact sheet together or a template for a new manager position!! :)
Thats not what Louth did a few years ago .... they just went after a Manager like MH that could get them up the Divisions - albiet with the same players that hammered us last weekend -so there goes the logic about not having the talent!!
It simple, that's all that's needed. Thats the starting point. templates and bluprints and whatevr other buzzwords ye want to use can be done in the background for a few years if ye want but this crop of players are already surviving Div 2 each year relying on their talent and determination alone so I would be confident that if they had the management team they deserve...you would be surprised what they could achieve!!
JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 246 - 30/05/2024 09:59:10
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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: " Replying To WhyTheLongFace: "And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up." Here was Michael Murphy's thoughts on the matter on the second captains podcast Talking about COR and is he fit to be an inter county manager "I for the life of me couldn't (identify a pattern of play) watching Meath, still to this day I don't know what they're doing. Even the Tailteann Cup final against Down was really really good but it was just based on unbelievable individual pieces of play. It was really strong, their midfield kicking excellent scores from distance, from all areas but there was no pattern to anything that was going on" It was then put to Paul Flynn. "I totally agree with what Murph said. And there's good players there. I really believe some of these players can grow into being a really solid team that should be winning that game at the weekend. But with no defensive clarity which they currently have and the decision making and skill execution up front for me screams no structure and they're not sure whether they should shoot. So the execution looks really bad because they're not working it to a position for a pattern of play they've worked on in training. So it all goes back to me to not having any type of gameplan or not having clarity on what the game plan is. You can look really bad as a player where there's not joined up thinking from defense to attack if there's not clarity on what everybody is trying to achieve. It has to fall at the manager, that is their role." That is a very damning report from two outsiders with no horse in the race"
LowerHogan (Meath) - Posts: 45 - 30/05/2024 12:11:47
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Replying To NYRoyal: "With everything that's being said here, how do we see Kerry game going? I think we have to have some sort of sting in the tale after last weekend. We're at home and we have to make most of that. Cork and Clare gave them decent games and we're probably at that level. Could honestly see a performance and lose by 4/5 points with a determined defensive display. Lads up front have to start kicking a few scores though, don't think we've scored more than 1-11 in any game this year? Kerry not the most defensive team and we're at home so you've got to be hoping we can get a good score. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but don't think we can be that bad again. Would be a great to have a massive crowd there and get behind the team no matter what as we still have everything to play for." My big concern here is Kerry's recent poor form in scoring goals (2 goals in last 8 games), that's something you'd have to imagine Jack O'Connor has been putting a lot of focus on with them over the last 2 weeks, this could be a game where they go hell for leather in front of goals and our record of conceding goals recently has been abysmal (9 goals in 3 games).
LowerHogan (Meath) - Posts: 45 - 30/05/2024 12:27:09
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Replying To NYRoyal: "With everything that's being said here, how do we see Kerry game going? I think we have to have some sort of sting in the tale after last weekend. We're at home and we have to make most of that. Cork and Clare gave them decent games and we're probably at that level. Could honestly see a performance and lose by 4/5 points with a determined defensive display. Lads up front have to start kicking a few scores though, don't think we've scored more than 1-11 in any game this year? Kerry not the most defensive team and we're at home so you've got to be hoping we can get a good score. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but don't think we can be that bad again. Would be a great to have a massive crowd there and get behind the team no matter what as we still have everything to play for." Look I will be honest I don't think we will win our next two games , Kerry will put a big score on us and Monaghan will see us as a great opportunity to get a win .
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 30/05/2024 12:32:13
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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: " Replying To WhyTheLongFace: "And lay blame where it's due, not just on the manager, but on the players, on coaching, on county board etc. it's not entirely on Colm O'Rourke that we are where we are. And people need to stop fixating on him solely.
true , but at the end of the day Colm and his ever changing coaching team have the lowest win rate of all previous mangers (not includes the tailteann cup but league..leinster and championship ) , so thats a indication of something wrong right ? I go by the maths because the maths don't lie!
nobody in meath thinks the good times are just around the corner , nobody in meath thinks we will get a manager with a magic wand and its all happy days again .. but we do see we can do a bit better whats currently on offer by the management set up." Here was Michael Murphy's thoughts on the matter on the second captains podcast Talking about COR and is he fit to be an inter county manager "I for the life of me couldn't (identify a pattern of play) watching Meath, still to this day I don't know what they're doing. Even the Tailteann Cup final against Down was really really good but it was just based on unbelievable individual pieces of play. It was really strong, their midfield kicking excellent scores from distance, from all areas but there was no pattern to anything that was going on" It was then put to Paul Flynn. "I totally agree with what Murph said. And there's good players there. I really believe some of these players can grow into being a really solid team that should be winning that game at the weekend. But with no defensive clarity which they currently have and the decision making and skill execution up front for me screams no structure and they're not sure whether they should shoot. So the execution looks really bad because they're not working it to a position for a pattern of play they've worked on in training. So it all goes back to me to not having any type of gameplan or not having clarity on what the game plan is. You can look really bad as a player where there's not joined up thinking from defense to attack if there's not clarity on what everybody is trying to achieve. It has to fall at the manager, that is their role." That is a very damning report from two outsiders with no horse in the race"
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 30/05/2024 12:37:09
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