Meath Forum

Cavan Vs Meath. Rd 5.

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Replying To winatallcost:  "So tell everyone here what your expectations were/are for this team throughout league and championship and outline where those expectations haven't been met? Perhaps you can then explain how the previous management were able to exceed on expectations where this management team haven't? What does this management team need to achieve for the coming year for progress to be deemed real? What have they not done up to now bearing in mind safety is secured with 2 games to go and Donegal and Armagh are far more capable teams than any other in Div. 2. Remember realistic needs to be referred to every now and again in your response. Is the keeper or Darragh Campion meeting your expectations now bearing in mind these were two of the sticking points with you a few weeks ago. Just for info. Campion and Brennan have been selected respectively on national teams of the week."
Hmmmmm…we have to get into division 1…. But we'll be relegated…

I back the team but not the manager… even though Andy McEntee is the best thing since sliced bread

Eivers and Garrigan weren't good enough 12 months ago but they're the only good thing now about last year

Davy Byrne (Roscommon manager) wasn't good enough last year but they'd take him instead now….

Harry hogan needs to be brought back… but can't get onto the bench

Shane McEntee needs to be at 6… but asked not to be considered for this year

We'll be better when we've a top class coaching team in charge…. But no top class coach wants to come near us….

Have I covered all the bases yet….

Oh and of course player x won't be back.. cos I'm itk.. Even though others have said player x has rejoined the panel….

And everyone one of these players got a chance under Andy McEntee…. Lynch, Coffey, Brennan, O'Neill, O'Higgins, Flood, Gray, Frayne, Caulfield, O'Regan, Moriarty, Murphy, O'Halloran, Wyer, Rodgers, Mcbride, O'Reilly, McDonnell, Kinsella….

Sure Colm has done nothing Andy hasn't done before him don't he know

And why couldn't we beat Armagh… and Donegal…. Hon the royal ….

And breath ;)

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 04/03/2024 19:25:05    2529814

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Isn't it quite interesting btw that we get everyone back for 3 games, no sigerson, the full panel training together and take 5 points from 3 neighbouring counties.

And that's without a large amount of players from last years team available through injury or unavailability in Ronan Ryan, Padraic Harnan, Conor Gray, James McEntee, Jordan Morris, Harry O'Higgins, Cillian o'sullivan and Donal Lenihan.

Everything isn't rosy in the garden and there's plenty to be worked on but I think Colm, Trevor et all deserve a bit of credit for having us securing our division 2 status with 2 games to spare against that back drop.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 04/03/2024 19:35:36    2529819

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Replying To winatallcost:  "So tell everyone here what your expectations were/are for this team throughout league and championship and outline where those expectations haven't been met? Perhaps you can then explain how the previous management were able to exceed on expectations where this management team haven't? What does this management team need to achieve for the coming year for progress to be deemed real? What have they not done up to now bearing in mind safety is secured with 2 games to go and Donegal and Armagh are far more capable teams than any other in Div. 2. Remember realistic needs to be referred to every now and again in your response. Is the keeper or Darragh Campion meeting your expectations now bearing in mind these were two of the sticking points with you a few weeks ago. Just for info. Campion and Brennan have been selected respectively on national teams of the week."
Definitely both campion and Brennan have improved significantly. I still believe sticking a forward in a centre back position was the wrong call. But he has exceeded my expectations. Brennan is a very good keeper, which I have always said. he is not comfortable coming out and his kick outs while improving are still not where they should be. For me and it's a personal opinion I still would pick billy hogan. I also believe he would be on team of week. As campion would be as a forward. Neither are exclusive and an either or. As for Colm ? No I don't see huge improvement. I do see some and I am happy with that, we still have major problems in midfield, and forwards. In fairness backs with players tracking back has improved. Colm has abandoned his all out kicking game from last year as fitzy even stated on Sunday game. So he has learned on the job. However we still look leggy and underdeveloped at many times. Very easily turned over . Running into blind alleyways often with no one running off the shoulder. Our scoring is extremely poor and shot selections are also very poor. I honestly believe that these would improve dramatically under a obric or Gillespie with seasoned modern day coaching in background. We have beat a louth team that is not near as good as last year. We got hammered by Armagh we drew with a TC in Fermanagh we beat a Kildare side In meltdown, now while cavan were a tc team last year for me that has been the most impressive we have played under Colm. I sincerely hope for that to continue. But for me the objective is getting into div 1, and then staying there. I believe if someone else was on sideline we would have 8 points at the moment. You may not think that. But that's my opinion and many others who I speak to are of same opinion . And I believe it is necessary for us to
Change things up at end of year and have someone in place early enough so the likes of Flynn McGill (even at his age) etc will return and we can go full
Tilt at promotion next year regardless of who is coming down or coming up. I will add should we compete or beat dubs or get to all ire quarter finals then I will happily keep Colm for another year. As he will have proved that he can handle modern day inter county football.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 04/03/2024 19:45:24    2529822

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The view in Cavan is that this is the best Meath team in about 10 years with a crop of great young players. Best defence we've faced and the lowest we've scored in the league. Draw was probably fair but Meath would have much more cause to regret they didn't win cos of the goals they missed. But you have to take your chances and if you only score 1 point from play in the second half then you don't deserve to win. Meath should look forward to the Summer and beyond with a good deal of confidence especially if they get a few more players back and convert a few more chances.

BreffniGael (Cavan) - Posts: 46 - 04/03/2024 22:06:15    2529846

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It's funny. I do be at pains to not mention Andy mcentee on here. Yet everyone else keeps bringing him up. And saying it towards me.
Let me be clear I liked Andy mcentee he took over a team in a very bad situation he brought us to div 1 and super 8s. With a bunch of players who liked and enjoyed playing with him. None of the certain starters walked off panel after 2 games and everyone was given a chance. He has won an all ire club , Leinster and Dublin championship, players on that team adored him, including MDM saying best manager he played under. He brought the minors to all ire final now I know that doesn't compare to international rules :). But still.
But he seems to live rent free in Brian's and his multiple personalities heads. I really do think it's time to let it go lad/lads. I wish him the best of luck in the future as I did banty etc and as I will do Colm.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 04/03/2024 22:43:05    2529858

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Replying To BreffniGael:  "The view in Cavan is that this is the best Meath team in about 10 years with a crop of great young players. Best defence we've faced and the lowest we've scored in the league. Draw was probably fair but Meath would have much more cause to regret they didn't win cos of the goals they missed. But you have to take your chances and if you only score 1 point from play in the second half then you don't deserve to win. Meath should look forward to the Summer and beyond with a good deal of confidence especially if they get a few more players back and convert a few more chances."
Well said breffini, good to hear from yourself and bloodandbandage today. And what the view from outside the county is. You make some great points there re chance conversion, things aren't perfect with the team and management, no one's saying it is, but we're trending upwards which is what most reasonable poster on here are hoping for.

Good to see Cavan on the rise too, gallivanting has you progressing nicely. Being of Kells stock and married to a lovely killeshandra girl, I'd always keep an eye out to see how Cavan are going. Best of luck for the rest of the campaign and hopefully you've secured Sam maguire football and we might see you in navan over the summer.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 04/03/2024 23:35:41    2529865

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Definitely both campion and Brennan have improved significantly. I still believe sticking a forward in a centre back position was the wrong call. But he has exceeded my expectations. Brennan is a very good keeper, which I have always said. he is not comfortable coming out and his kick outs while improving are still not where they should be. For me and it's a personal opinion I still would pick billy hogan. I also believe he would be on team of week. As campion would be as a forward. Neither are exclusive and an either or. As for Colm ? No I don't see huge improvement. I do see some and I am happy with that, we still have major problems in midfield, and forwards. In fairness backs with players tracking back has improved. Colm has abandoned his all out kicking game from last year as fitzy even stated on Sunday game. So he has learned on the job. However we still look leggy and underdeveloped at many times. Very easily turned over . Running into blind alleyways often with no one running off the shoulder. Our scoring is extremely poor and shot selections are also very poor. I honestly believe that these would improve dramatically under a obric or Gillespie with seasoned modern day coaching in background. We have beat a louth team that is not near as good as last year. We got hammered by Armagh we drew with a TC in Fermanagh we beat a Kildare side In meltdown, now while cavan were a tc team last year for me that has been the most impressive we have played under Colm. I sincerely hope for that to continue. But for me the objective is getting into div 1, and then staying there. I believe if someone else was on sideline we would have 8 points at the moment. You may not think that. But that's my opinion and many others who I speak to are of same opinion . And I believe it is necessary for us to
Change things up at end of year and have someone in place early enough so the likes of Flynn McGill (even at his age) etc will return and we can go full
Tilt at promotion next year regardless of who is coming down or coming up. I will add should we compete or beat dubs or get to all ire quarter finals then I will happily keep Colm for another year. As he will have proved that he can handle modern day inter county football."
I agree the Armagh game was very poor and I also worry about our scoring rate as it's very low.Im hoping we can also start to take goal chances because against better teams its vital you take them.You mention shot selection is that not down to the players?cant see Colm o Rourke telling lads to shoot from near impossible angles.You mention the midfield but its not o Rourkes fault Gray is out with sickness or Flynn is doing exams.Thats 2 big players who would make a huge difference there.You also mention another manager would have us on 8 points?with a bit of luck we would be,another couple of inches to the left and we beat Cavan and Costellos free just drops short v Fermanagh at the end if that goes over we are on 8 points but also note we could have lost games as well Cavans wide at the end and Brennan s saves v Louth.You also mention magill again as far as I know door was open but he chose not to comeback so cant force him to play and good luck to him.Also dont think belittling our wins saying the teams we beat and drew with are tc teams or poor is doing us much good,sure we were a TC team last year as well.Do I think everything is rosy?no far from it and we have alot of room for improvement both manager and players but we have played 5 won 2 drew 2 and lost 1 not mediocre from were I stand.i will add though whilst the defence has improved I think teams that run at us will cause us problems as Cavan especially in the first half were very slow getting the ball forward and got a bit more joy second half when they upped the intensity.There is not alot of difference between most teams in division 2 and top three in division 3 anyone can beat anyone on their day.Donegal are up on top because of McGuinness factor and Armagh are a bit further down the road than the rest and have good scoring forwards but everyone else is quiet close to each other.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 05/03/2024 10:57:31    2529906

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Replying To royaldunne:  "It's funny. I do be at pains to not mention Andy mcentee on here. Yet everyone else keeps bringing him up. And saying it towards me.
Let me be clear I liked Andy mcentee he took over a team in a very bad situation he brought us to div 1 and super 8s. With a bunch of players who liked and enjoyed playing with him. None of the certain starters walked off panel after 2 games and everyone was given a chance. He has won an all ire club , Leinster and Dublin championship, players on that team adored him, including MDM saying best manager he played under. He brought the minors to all ire final now I know that doesn't compare to international rules :). But still.
But he seems to live rent free in Brian's and his multiple personalities heads. I really do think it's time to let it go lad/lads. I wish him the best of luck in the future as I did banty etc and as I will do Colm."
I think this management team has taken over the Meath team at an equally low ebb to what Andy McEntee did in August 2016. Just to be clear, your expectations are that we should reach an All-Ireland quarter final this year bearing in mind that the previous management team fell at the first hurdle against the same opposition in year 2 of their management in the Leinster championship that Meath face this year. Maybe you can explain a time when the previous management team went toe to toe with the Dubs and I would consider this to be a defeat of 3pts or less. Don't get me wrong, I would be extremely disappointed if this management team doesn't achieve div. 1 status or a quater final position in championship within next 2 years but no point in casting any major judgement at this stage.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 05/03/2024 11:24:19    2529909

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On a side note: Assuming there are no shocks in the provincials, Louth/Kildare and Clare will make provincial finals and, thus, get 2nd seeds status.

First Seeds
Kerry
Dublin
Armagh/Derry/Donegal/Tyrone
Galway Mayo

Second Seeds
Kildare/Louth
Clare
Armagh/Derry/Donegal/Tyrone
Galway Mayo

Third Seeds
Roscommon
Monaghan
Remaining two Div 1/Promoted Ulster teams

With all that in mind it's very unlikely Meath get a third seed. So league position no longer matters (unless you consider the tiny sliver of a chance of promotion). I know it will be good to test ourselves against Cork and Donegal but at this stage I hope COR and team are taking the long-term view that we need to be peaking mid May for the AI series. I wouldn't mind losing the next two if it looked like the lads were hard at it on the training ground.

MeathAbroad (Meath) - Posts: 94 - 05/03/2024 11:50:40    2529911

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Replying To bloodandbandage:  "Has there ever been a more deluded individual than yourself on this forum??? Just asking for a friend.....Meath lose, and it's daggers at dawn for the manager. Meath win a game and it's promotion to Division 1 on the cards... I mean, come on, you have to be the biggest spoofer of all time? or else the biggest wind up merchant? Which is it?"
It certainly falls more into the spoofer category - he infamously promised to delete his account should Tyrone defeat Meath in the 2013 All Ireland series. When they duly did, he backed down on his word and has been on borrowed time ever since.

LobinstownMan (Meath) - Posts: 125 - 05/03/2024 14:28:34    2529935

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Just reflecting on the weekend, bitterly disappointed to have left it behind, but when you put it in the context of where we are, and where we are going - it's a positive result

We've only been beaten by Armagh who are clearly further ahead than us and have shown we're probably next best behind the top two.

Had we gotten over the line in those drawn beaten Cavan and Fermanagh - we'd be in control of our own destiny in terms of promotion and sitting on 8 points, which you couldn't really ask for more.

Have been impressed with Sean Brennan, I know a lot of people are criticising the kickouts, but I think the issue is more on players getting open. Of course your stats will look poor if you're forced to always go long. His free kicks have been very good and his shop stopping has been at a similar level.

Defence looking a lot more solid, and Campion looks to have been a good find at 6. The end product is really our Achilles heal and it has to improve. Our inside forwards are struggling, and Shane Walsh frustrates me so much. He has an awful lot of potential and has multiple great facets to his game - but his finishing just lets him down.

Much we're seeing signs of improvement every game, a win over Cork and a good showing versus Donegal will be a very positive league campaign

hyperache (Meath) - Posts: 251 - 05/03/2024 14:36:13    2529938

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What did ye reckon after Saturday evening folks? Personally it was great to see a big crowd there. It's a rivalry (which seems to mean more to us than yourselves) which has not many games recently. Think the rivalry has got a bit diluted, but reckon by what we saw Saturday, we're of a similar level, so might be seeing a bit more of each other next few years. Be good to get that back up and going properly and get a bit of spite going!

Slightly unfortunate the pitch was not in great shape. Of course not much could be done about that what with the work needed on it to let water away after the snow melted. Usually it's in lovely condition this time of year, probably being slightly heavier suited yourselves as a more defensively solid team. Either way, the whole no win in Breffni in 60 years was shown to be old hat. New young teams generally don't have to carry that baggage of the past.

But overall most seemed happy enough. Technically promotion still in both our hands (slightly better chance for us alright) but likely we're both still in Division 2 next year and with 2 good teams likely coming down and 2 coming up, it'll make for a good division. The draw was probably right. We were so poor 1st half with taking shots and long range frees that would be fine in better foot conditions, but needed more composure and being in a little closer - but showed where you are defensively sound. Ye did very well to continue to pick us off through the half. We readjusted well at half time and got back ahead and sure look, both could have won it and both lost it in that last 5 injury time minutes so honours even I think was right.

A lot being made of your 2 goal chances. Our keeper did very well on both, any other day you'd have got at least one of those. We had our own chances too which haven't been talked of much, with 2 fist passes across goal that fingertips got it away from being palmed in. Mad game with no goals all told with those chances.

Thought the ref was good too. I see there was some grumbling here and online/on pods, but one of the better ones I've seen this year. Thought he let the game flow, and you really needed to earn your free. Watched the game back and both teams had grievances on frees not given at stages, but overall when I find a ref is being consistent on things to both sides, then I'll be ok with it. Although black card was a little harsh, if not technically correct - need some nuance and allowance for ball going quickly.

Finally, can't get over how well Keogan is still going. A proper class act and only for him we definitely get a few extra points. Also shipped that shoulder well and recovered and didn't let it get at him. O'Neill is a classy player too, some man marker. All the best lads, you never know might see ye later in the summer at some stage if the draw falls that way...

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 05/03/2024 15:35:03    2529946

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Are Meath not very much a defensive team now? Everyone back behind the ball with slow attacks. Their scoring rate has dried up but they are conceding a lot less now, except for the meltdown against Armagh. Meath's shooting from, lets face it, not very difficult angles or distances, was dreadful and cost them the win on Saturday night. If Shane Walsh's goal chance goes in its game over. Instead its butchered and this let Cavan back into the game and they then actually go ahead. Meath only managed one point from play in the second half. Meath also struggled at midfield in the second half. While they are definitely making progress, some criticism is still allowed.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 05/03/2024 16:08:45    2529953

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "Are Meath not very much a defensive team now? Everyone back behind the ball with slow attacks. Their scoring rate has dried up but they are conceding a lot less now, except for the meltdown against Armagh. Meath's shooting from, lets face it, not very difficult angles or distances, was dreadful and cost them the win on Saturday night. If Shane Walsh's goal chance goes in its game over. Instead its butchered and this let Cavan back into the game and they then actually go ahead. Meath only managed one point from play in the second half. Meath also struggled at midfield in the second half. While they are definitely making progress, some criticism is still allowed."
Definitely the last 2 games our defense has looked much more organised which is great. Against Louth not so much. They had 3 or 4 guilt edge goal chances which they butchered so we got lucky there but the last 2 games have been very positive defensively . Which it needs to be because we lack real quality up front in terms of top class scoring forwards with pace.

Both Walsh and Frayne who would be our main scoring forwards lack that killer yard that makes a difference at Top 8 All Ireland level. Lynch is very sharp over 10 20 yards to get out in front but not hugely pacy or powerful to burn his man when he takes him on hence the reason he checks back on the defender pretty much every time . Jack O'Connor has pace to burn and Costello no slouch but neither I'd class as heavy scoring forwards so we need to be solid defensively and we have been in the last 2 games.

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 05/03/2024 16:33:36    2529955

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Replying To hyperache:  "Just reflecting on the weekend, bitterly disappointed to have left it behind, but when you put it in the context of where we are, and where we are going - it's a positive result

We've only been beaten by Armagh who are clearly further ahead than us and have shown we're probably next best behind the top two.

Had we gotten over the line in those drawn beaten Cavan and Fermanagh - we'd be in control of our own destiny in terms of promotion and sitting on 8 points, which you couldn't really ask for more.

Have been impressed with Sean Brennan, I know a lot of people are criticising the kickouts, but I think the issue is more on players getting open. Of course your stats will look poor if you're forced to always go long. His free kicks have been very good and his shop stopping has been at a similar level.

Defence looking a lot more solid, and Campion looks to have been a good find at 6. The end product is really our Achilles heal and it has to improve. Our inside forwards are struggling, and Shane Walsh frustrates me so much. He has an awful lot of potential and has multiple great facets to his game - but his finishing just lets him down.

Much we're seeing signs of improvement every game, a win over Cork and a good showing versus Donegal will be a very positive league campaign"
A simple fact of the game that I've seen no one mention was when a Sean Brennan tipped over a fisted effort that was going into the net. Should it had then it would have been disallowed but instead he tipped it over the bar and a point for Cavan. Meath had one similar in the first half, well I think similar not sure if it was for a straight fisted pass into the net or was it for Daithi McGown been in the square. Contrasting fortunes but small margins. We lost a lot of our own kickouts which is something that we need to fix. We should be 90% plus especially on our own ones...

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 05/03/2024 16:42:43    2529960

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Cian McBride is showing serious improvement. Feel like him and Gray at midfield would be crucial for their aerial ability when pressure is put on the kick out. Seen near the end on Saturday when McBride made a massive catch. Need some shooting practice as well but defence and midfield looking more solid. Apart from Armagh game defence been keeping a tight reign on forward lines and conceding low scores. Campion is really settling into the centre back role too and his ability on the ball suits him when teams are dropping off and he's given space.

NYRoyal (USA) - Posts: 31 - 05/03/2024 16:56:02    2529963

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Replying To 199710:  "A simple fact of the game that I've seen no one mention was when a Sean Brennan tipped over a fisted effort that was going into the net. Should it had then it would have been disallowed but instead he tipped it over the bar and a point for Cavan. Meath had one similar in the first half, well I think similar not sure if it was for a straight fisted pass into the net or was it for Daithi McGown been in the square. Contrasting fortunes but small margins. We lost a lot of our own kickouts which is something that we need to fix. We should be 90% plus especially on our own ones..."
Yeah that was an error but in fairness it was an acceptable one if there is such a thing. Seeing a ball come towards goal and tip it over the bar is instinctive. However if he had let it in. No score would be given

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/03/2024 17:57:52    2529976

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Replying To NYRoyal:  "Cian McBride is showing serious improvement. Feel like him and Gray at midfield would be crucial for their aerial ability when pressure is put on the kick out. Seen near the end on Saturday when McBride made a massive catch. Need some shooting practice as well but defence and midfield looking more solid. Apart from Armagh game defence been keeping a tight reign on forward lines and conceding low scores. Campion is really settling into the centre back role too and his ability on the ball suits him when teams are dropping off and he's given space."
100% agree with McBride. I thought he was a long way off a county player from what I saw with him at adult and under 20 level in his cameos but he's pleasantly surprised me

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 05/03/2024 18:32:01    2529985

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Replying To 199710:  "A simple fact of the game that I've seen no one mention was when a Sean Brennan tipped over a fisted effort that was going into the net. Should it had then it would have been disallowed but instead he tipped it over the bar and a point for Cavan. Meath had one similar in the first half, well I think similar not sure if it was for a straight fisted pass into the net or was it for Daithi McGown been in the square. Contrasting fortunes but small margins. We lost a lot of our own kickouts which is something that we need to fix. We should be 90% plus especially on our own ones..."
It's a small margin but he only gets a second to make a decision on the pitch. If he let's it in and the ref or umpires give a goal for whatever reason then we lose and are in a relegation battle plus some people will blame the keeper for not being more cautious.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 05/03/2024 18:38:31    2529986

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Replying To 199710:  "A simple fact of the game that I've seen no one mention was when a Sean Brennan tipped over a fisted effort that was going into the net. Should it had then it would have been disallowed but instead he tipped it over the bar and a point for Cavan. Meath had one similar in the first half, well I think similar not sure if it was for a straight fisted pass into the net or was it for Daithi McGown been in the square. Contrasting fortunes but small margins. We lost a lot of our own kickouts which is something that we need to fix. We should be 90% plus especially on our own ones..."
Take another look at it if you can. There was a hand in there deflecting the fisted effort which would have meant goal would have counted if ref noticed. You listened to commentator but needs an even more careful look. Brennan was right to go for ball.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 05/03/2024 18:48:02    2529988

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