Pinkie
County: Wexford
Posts: 2061

1206993

Mr Louth man, have you ever made a mistake of human error and especially when you were under pressure? Referees are human and if you think a system whereby they are accountable for every decision they make which is wrong is the answer, well you wont have many referees very soon.
Looking at the Derry manager last night was only disgraceful. The referee made a perfectly correct decision but the manager did not agree, and made an attempt to vindicate his players by having a go at the referee.
I do think a 2nd referee should be deployed for games but overall the standard of refereeing is as good as it ever was. The big difference now is that supporters cannot accept the referee's decisions when they go against there team, regardless of whether he is right or not. The culture of abusing the referee has been allowed to continue unabated at club level which is why people are not interested in doing the job - sure why would you want that abuse most of us would say.
Why dont you look at the attitude of the players within your county, buggering off as soon as they are beaten in Leinster. That is the reason why you lost, not the referee


Your arguments are so ridiculous.....so because hes human and every1 makes mistakes, every1 should accept it. Are ya listening to yourself? Your second point of Louth lads leaving is also ridiculous, so your saying because Louth sent their 3rd team down on Sunday its okay for bad standards in refs.

To all the other lads saying because we lost were giving out about the refs......listen to the link on RTE Marty and Bernard Flynn reporting from the Louth match saying that the refereeing was a disgrace, and that Pat Mc really needs to look at the standards. Lads seem to think that if a team plays bad (London kicked 15 wides) its okay for the ref to be bad???

Im not saying lets abuse refs, my point is how can we improve the standards, whether it be an extra ref, a video ref, maybe higher standards to become a ref along with paying them more to add incentive.

Sex (Louth) - Posts: 25 - 02/07/2012 16:49:57    1207540

squidword
County: Louth
Posts: 2818

1207381

You are an absolute joke. He elbowed Heslin in the face. He began to walk off the pitch before the red talked to him cos he knew he was gone. How many steps did Ronan Caroll take in the build up to the two goals in Navan. At least the two lads won't be suspended for round two of the qualifiers. Back to thinking up excuses until next now good lad

square_ball_69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 826 - 02/07/2012 17:00:15    1207550

Pinkie

My county were not playing in Croke Park yesterday and since I happen to live in Kildare I did not comment on the standard in that game.

I gave a very clear contrast from the other game

Eric Bradley punches Fennell in the face as Wexford were tagging both Dubs midfielders as they manouvered for a kick out. The other Dublin midfielder was thrown to the ground in the same sequence.

The ref wagged a finger at him

About 3 minutes later Connolly grounded off the ball with play stopped. He retailated. Action of this Wexford player ignored while umpire & ref jump on Coinnolly and give him a Red (correct as per rule but its a medal he should get for refusing to be intimated !!!!)

Now try to tell me that the Ref was making any attempt to be fair and even-handed as between Wexford & Dublin, Connolly & Bradley.

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 02/07/2012 17:05:22    1207557

Dublin won.....and I still felt the refereeing was a disgrace!!!

If Dublin were playing a team who could convert frees....they'd have lost!

But most of those frees Brosnan missed, werent soft frees.......they just werent fouls. Wexford players ran into contact and immediately went to ground, most of the time there wasnt even contact. Now someone said Philly McMahon got two soft frees. How many did Wexford get....and those soft free Philly got.....were Dublin gonna score from.them! Ref blew up frees repeatedly against Dublin in scoring positions for Wexford!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 02/07/2012 17:06:15    1207560

The refereeing in the all-ireland last year was a disgrace,incompetant standard and before people accuse me of being a bad loser, kerrys lack of quality on the subs bench unlike this year was a major influence on the game if we had what we have now we would have been so far ahead it would not have mattered what mcquillan would decided,it was a complete disgrace.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 02/07/2012 17:08:33    1207563

I think the ref gave Connolly his red card with a little too much gusto!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12494 - 02/07/2012 17:09:06    1207564

This conversation happens every year and why?

Because of the rules..

They are not defined, the players and management ignore most of them and because of this the referees will always be inconsistent as they have to try and make a game out of it all!

I reckon squidword should referee all games after his report on last Saturday evenings match. The man didn't miss a thing, he even saw officials not seeing things!

To sort this out will take a massive culture change, a massive change to what happens on the field of play.

People are wondering how many of the current ref's have played at a decent level! Generally speaking these are two totally different disciplines and the chances of a past player wanting to tog out as a ref are as little as the current stats would suggest!

The one thing past and current players should be allowed do is to re-write the rule book and help remove this annual argument from the message board

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1479 - 02/07/2012 17:13:47    1207569

Breffini I taught it was great. Like something you'd see in the olympia!!

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 02/07/2012 17:17:22    1207574

Collins is a terrible ref

KingOfJacks (Kildare) - Posts: 361 - 02/07/2012 17:22:56    1207591

Lads, I don't think the ref's make half as many mistakes as the players do in 99% of games. We have to remember that they are only human. They try to make the correct decisions but can't get everything right. Look at Wexford kicking 14 wides in second half yesterday - did the ref make 14 mistakes in the whole game? If he did there'd be holy war. Remember that refs don't half slow motion replays from every angle built into their brains. I have to agree that some ref decisions baffle me but more often than not they get it right. Also a lot of the current players have a lot to answer for re rules and refereeing. Lads diving, standing in front of frees, mouthing to refs, kicking the ball away, throwing in the knee after free's been givin, pattin lads on head in jest. These are all taking away from our games and should be cut out by straight yellow for any of the above or similar offences. Once a few lads were sent off, things would change and our games would improve for the better. Give the refs a break and try to suggest ways of improving the rules and making them easier to interpret.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 02/07/2012 17:26:23    1207593

daytona11 thank you for your support, good to see I'm not on my own in thinking it's a thankless job and one we should be glad we have them to do it! Also thanks for proposing doing something about it rather than just moaning when your team lost.
KELF, I didnt see the Bradley incident, I agree that Malone should have been booked as he did start the incident with Connolly. One thing you are forgetting here - did anyone bring the Bradley incident to the referees attention? To be fair, the umpires hand went straight up and credit to him for bringing it to the referee's attention and telling him what he saw. To be fair, a referee didnt send off Ciaran Whelan for punching Nigel Crawford a few years ago and there was uproar, referees dont send off Dublin players, etc.
My only point when I joined this thread was that continuing the current culture which is rampant as ever of abusing referees and physical threats to them will not improve the standard of refereeing. Better people will be put off as a result - it is simply a viscious circle. Supporting them and making their job easier, be they rule changes, having more officials, taking jobs such as time keeping off them will help things improve. But continuing to hurl abuse at them will not make better people want to do the job so until that stops dont expect better whistlers any time soon.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 02/07/2012 17:27:21    1207598

To be honest I don't think most people care about the standard of officiating unless their county is directly involved.
Take me as Meath man I couldn't care less about Michael Collins performance yesterday because ultimately we won the game however if Cian Ward had put that shot over and we went on to lose the game by a point I'd have been completely out raged and would have felt the need to start a similar thread.

At the end of the day Refs only have seconds to make a decision and we expect them to get it right 100% of the time and by the law of averages that's just not possible. It's only when we've seen about 10 replays from different angles the we then decide that the ref made a bad decision.

However Refs who consistently have bad days need to be held accountable.

SUPER_ROYALS (Meath) - Posts: 123 - 02/07/2012 18:10:20    1207651

The gusto with which Rory Hickey showed Connolly the red probably stemmed from the fact that he was the linesman who reported him for striking in the Donegal semi final last year. Overall the standard of refereeing in Gaelic Football is worse than deplorable. Syl Doyle is a particular disaster area. I always check his games as I am reasonably confident he will cause a mini riot some day soon.

CapitalGains (Dublin) - Posts: 40 - 02/07/2012 18:14:41    1207658

Pinkie
County: Wexford

"I read the first 5 lines of that squidworth, not reading any more of your moan. Maybe you should form a Louth table tennis team and start following that. Or a chess/snakes and ladders team. Rules are perfectly clear, unambiguous and the loser can have no complaints about being beaten.
Because be it rugby, soccer, hurling, football, baseball, american football, tennis (a perfect example now that hawk-eye is being used), split-second decisions have to be made, frees can be borderline and the referee will get some of them wrong - that is part of the game. Rugby is probably the best example - one referee will give more time than another for a forward to release a ball or to roll away from a ruck for example. His authority is respected by the players and his decisions not constantly questioned. If we could go down that route of respecting referees, then maybe more ex players could be enticed into refereeing.

And I will make no apologies to squidword or anyone for defending referees because say what you like about them without them we would not have a game, and the only way we will get better ones is if people start to respect them and their decisions. I havent anddont always agreed with a referees decisions either when I was playing or now that I am on the sideline, but I do respect their decisions and think some of what referees are called is only disgraceful. If it is such a simple job and they are all so useless and wrong, and it is as easy as those complaining on here claim, why dont you try doing it?"

You're advocating respect for referees but show total disrespect for others by saying "maybe you should form a Louth table tennis team and start following that"

You go on to say "rules are perfectly clear, unambiguous and the loser can have no complaints about being beaten" but then you proceed to rhyme off a list of stuff which is designed to excuse referees who are clearly not able to implement or decipher the "perfectly clear, unambiguous rules" you say that are there.

Are you saying that the clear and unambiguous rules that exist are designed to be clear and unambiguous to everyone except REFEREES ?.

On a personal note I find you to be a very arrogant and a obnoxiousness individual reminiscent of someone who's on a power trip, I also find your totally ignorance of the situation laughable.

I believe that a lot of inter-county referees have very hard necks and hides tougher than rhinos on them. I have seen referees surrounded by very angry and aggressive players totally unphased by this type of hostile situation. I also know referees who always go into games always having it in for certain clubs and players. In short the referee is only waiting for them or their players to do something.

Referees have to become accountable for their actions in the same way players are held accountable for theirs.

Have you ever considered that WITHOUT THE PLAYERS WE WOULDN'T HAVE A GAME, or is your thinking just all about respecting and looking after the referees.

I suggest that all referees and side line officials at all the top games should be wired up to a PA system and that all important decisions like sending offs etc should be communicated directly to the games TV audience if applicable and more importantly the stadium spectators. This approach would leave no hiding place for referees.

squidword (Louth) - Posts: 2897 - 02/07/2012 19:10:34    1207732

I was referring to the table-tennis rules being perfectly clear Squidword.

I am so hurt that you find me arrogant and/or on a power trip. To be honest, I dont care how you find me. I am on here to give my opinion and I dont care if in your own little bubble dont like it. The difference between me and you sir, is that I was brought up by my parents respecting authority and those who are given positions of power to enforce them. It is not my problem that you dont seem to have similar attitudes of respect to such authority.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 02/07/2012 19:33:16    1207760

Pinkie
County: Wexford
Posts: 2065

One thing you are forgetting here - did anyone bring the Bradley incident to the referees attention? To be fair, the umpires hand went straight up and credit to him for bringing it to the referee's attention and telling him what he saw.

he shouldnt have to be told if he was standing there and wagged a finger at bradley he had to have seen the incident didnt he so was up to him to send bradley off.
how can you credit the umpire for bringing to the refs attention connally incident when clearly connally was thrown by the head to the ground first surely he saw that and didnt tell the ref he choose to ignore that and only tell what connally did

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 03/07/2012 09:33:27    1208000

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 1930

Exactly and in the Meath game when the ref blew up he was clearly looking at his watch and anot the ball/game hence the ridiculous blow up.

Referee's are no different to everyone else, we all make mistakes, but there is mistakes and incompatence and compounded by having the same nonsense tolerated year in year by people in Authority showing players and fans zero respect. Respect cuts both ways, they need to seriously look at other sports and how they train and assess their officials. I tell you there is a disaster waiting to happen were officials are concerned.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4968 - 03/07/2012 09:54:29    1208024

hill16no1man to be fair to the umpire he might not have seen the start of the incident because if he did he would have made sure the referee booked Brian Malone.I thought Bradley's was more a push than a punch but I could be a bit biased.To be fair to Connolly too,he didnt exactly hit Malone full force...

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 03/07/2012 10:16:02    1208053

you would imagine he would have to have seen connally been thrown to the ground as surely that is what broght his attention to the incident,
i think refs should be suspended just like players if they do something wrong as they are a part of the game too and need to be punished like players its the only way to improve the standard.
i was wondering what you thaught pinkie i felt wexford had a ploy of going down to get attention at times in the match when they felt dublin were getting a head of steam built up several times a player would go down with a suspicous injury to slow down the pace of the game and it worked for them.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 03/07/2012 10:29:07    1208067

hill16no1man to be fair I do umpire regularly for club matches for a new referee in Wexford(OK I admit its a lower level).Whilst you do look for off-the-ball incidents,I am sure you'll agree its impossible to see everything.Sometimes a player falling to the ground catches your attention but you might not know why he ended up on the ground.And to be fair to the umpire all the players were running back in towards the goal so it could have been difficult to see everything.
I will let pinkie answer your question himself since it's addressed to him,but for my tuppence worth I do not agree with this practice of players going down injured even when it is Wexford.But unfortunately it is something which every county does,your own included.It was rampant by Offaly in Wexford v Offaly hurling match,Down/Monaghan were constantly at it last weekend.It is something I want to see stamped out as it takes from the game as a spectacle.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 03/07/2012 10:40:09    1208078