Meath Forum

16 Team Intermediate Championship

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Replying To truegael49:  "You have your opinion based on what you think is best for you. I have mine based on what is best for my club. We are entitled to our opinions but they don't really matter. The choice at the time to clubs was

Premier championship and A leagues or Second team groups and B leagues.

I would prefer the second, especially with SFC and IFC at 16. (I'm guessing you prefer option 2 also). In my opinion it is better for intermediate and junior clubs. The championship was always a red herring and with stronger junior championship, second teams won't be a big issue. League is constant though and you could have senior lads playing for 2 teams every weekend. Could be multiple second teams in higher divisions at expense of IFC teams. You are proposing a cake and eat it type arrangement. In KIldare, there is second team championship and reserve leagues with no complaints.

I know of no counties that have what you are proposing."
To protect the integrity of the competition like I said earlier I would list 20-23 players for each team that couldn't go down. For the league you could make that 20 players without county players as under the split season they wouldn't play pretty much all the league. And I'd just like to better understand how it benefits Junior clubs (in particular lower ranking clubs) to be playing at a worse level of competition. For stronger Junior clubs it's no use as they aren't being tested. For weaker junior teams it's no use as they are getting destroyed. How is it better for Drumconrath to lose 2 championship games by a combined 60 points. Or St Mary's by a combined 42 points. If a 2nd team was in the intermediate championship and in A league division 2 then what's the harm. I amn't advocating for pseudo senior teams in the league, and think that the rules on playing down teams should be fairly strict. I just don't see how 'protecting' junior teams from 2nd and 3rd teams serves either the improvement of the junior club or the participation rates in the senior club. In my opinion it hurts both

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 07/03/2021 22:33:26    2333683

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I think the "beauty" of the current system where you can't play a lower championship grade once you play a higher one is that it's black and white and everyone knows the rules. It can't be gamed as it's based on who actually steps onto the pitch.

Proposals for 22 man panels or lists of 5 players able to play both etc. are open to abuse, and once clubs see the opportunity, they'll take the opportunity. We have list systems for the leagues as it is and many clubs have tales of absolute joke teams being submitted, teams being packed with retired/emigrated/injured players etc. allowing 1st team players to play 2nd team.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 07/03/2021 22:59:16    2333685

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "To protect the integrity of the competition like I said earlier I would list 20-23 players for each team that couldn't go down. For the league you could make that 20 players without county players as under the split season they wouldn't play pretty much all the league. And I'd just like to better understand how it benefits Junior clubs (in particular lower ranking clubs) to be playing at a worse level of competition. For stronger Junior clubs it's no use as they aren't being tested. For weaker junior teams it's no use as they are getting destroyed. How is it better for Drumconrath to lose 2 championship games by a combined 60 points. Or St Mary's by a combined 42 points. If a 2nd team was in the intermediate championship and in A league division 2 then what's the harm. I amn't advocating for pseudo senior teams in the league, and think that the rules on playing down teams should be fairly strict. I just don't see how 'protecting' junior teams from 2nd and 3rd teams serves either the improvement of the junior club or the participation rates in the senior club. In my opinion it hurts both"
We all know the championships will be
16 senior
16 inter
Jun A & Jun B

We all knew it was a disaster waiting to happen when it was changed. Jun A & B gradings will sort out those beatings and we might have IFC and stronger JFC teams winning Leinster again which is great for clubs. Senior still weak imo.

On the rest, I think second teams should be in their own league and championship like Kildare. You think they should should be in everything like which county?

The clubs agreed a compromise. I told you which side I think compromise should be and why. Which side do you think it should be? (I think we might even agree)

truegael49 (Meath) - Posts: 14 - 08/03/2021 13:07:22    2333697

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Replying To truegael49:  "We all know the championships will be
16 senior
16 inter
Jun A & Jun B

We all knew it was a disaster waiting to happen when it was changed. Jun A & B gradings will sort out those beatings and we might have IFC and stronger JFC teams winning Leinster again which is great for clubs. Senior still weak imo.

On the rest, I think second teams should be in their own league and championship like Kildare. You think they should should be in everything like which county?

The clubs agreed a compromise. I told you which side I think compromise should be and why. Which side do you think it should be? (I think we might even agree)"
If it's a case of whether 2nd teams should be let play championship or league then they'll choose championship or league. And just because other counties don't do it doesn't mean we shouldn't, if that was the case there'd never be innovation. It's obvious that the demographics of the county are shifting east and mostly south. It's important to recognise that for an ever-increasing number of the adult playing population the games program is becoming diluted with no real competition. Take Jack Flynn for example, he is now on the Meath senior panel. Out of under 17 he couldn't make the Ratoath first team but was able to play Junior B which was a championship involving first teams if he was let play in a premier division 2 as Ratoath were in last year maybe he wouldn't have pushed on. Because of the minor age being changed to under 17, there are plenty of players in the bigger town clubs who aren't ready for senior, don't have meaningful games until under 20 in the winter. The solution to this for me is in the long term to offer them games, and in the long term target coaching in creating new clubs in the urban centres. Navan has 3 clubs in its parish, given the way demographics are going it won't be long until Ratoath, Dunboyne, Ashbourne, Laytown/Bettystown and maybe Dunshaughlin require 2 also. But in the short term, there has to be a meaningful games profile provided for these players. And I understand the plight of the rural club, my Dad is from a struggling rural club in his home county. But what's more valuable and more likely to improve Clonard, Drumcondrath, St Mary's etc. getting hammered by stronger Junior teams in league or championship and having no relegation threat. Or playing Na Fianna's 2nd team, or Dunboyne's 3rd team and being in really close contests where either side could win. I think the value in competitive games where there are very few teams that don't have a realistic chance of relegation/promotion in league or championships greatly outweighs the value in keeping Junior clubs protected and keeping their status of being a Junior/Divison 4 team rather than Junior B/divison 5

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 08/03/2021 19:06:13    2333725

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I think the "beauty" of the current system where you can't play a lower championship grade once you play a higher one is that it's black and white and everyone knows the rules. It can't be gamed as it's based on who actually steps onto the pitch.

Proposals for 22 man panels or lists of 5 players able to play both etc. are open to abuse, and once clubs see the opportunity, they'll take the opportunity. We have list systems for the leagues as it is and many clubs have tales of absolute joke teams being submitted, teams being packed with retired/emigrated/injured players etc. allowing 1st team players to play 2nd team."
In fairness that is a good point. Maybe it's similar if you play Senior championship you can't play second-team league and then additionally if you play maybe 3 1st team league games again you can't go down

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1523 - 08/03/2021 19:07:37    2333726

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