National Forum

"It's Worrying For Hurling!"

(Oldest Posts First)

In general, I like listening to Mullane. His recent: the Cork hurlers failed in 2026 because they shirked the homecoming in 2025 was on the money- as most kids under the age of 10 don't even realize whether their team won lost. All they can see is the jersey, and hear is a name, and want is an autograph-but this piece makes no sense: https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/341252

Mullane opines, ""I'm not a firm believer that you have to go and mirror the football championship and the structure of the football championship, but we've got to take the learnings from what football are doing."

What learnings? Two-pointers if the goalie scores, and I wouldn't put it beyond Nicky Quaid. Football allows all counties in the country to enter the Sam Maguire: Kilkenny opt out, but NY and London opt in. So, we have 33 counties entering the same competition from the get-go. Is it fair? Is it balanced? Totally not, but it's an option that 20 or more counties do not have in hurling: 6 in Leinster, is it? and 5 in Munster that have a shot at lifting the McCarthy Cup.

What does Mullane, and indeed some others who advocate for change, want? Have the likes of Limerick and Kilkenny play each other 5 times in a season, or Tipp and Cork do battle 6 times?

Unless these ex-players (aka experts) have a proposal to submit to improve hurling, this "something's gotta change" attitude isn't worth a ball of blue. And even if they submit a proposal, having it implemented is another day's work altogether.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2629 - 03/08/2026 23:10:58    2688595

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "In general, I like listening to Mullane. His recent: the Cork hurlers failed in 2026 because they shirked the homecoming in 2025 was on the money- as most kids under the age of 10 don't even realize whether their team won lost. All they can see is the jersey, and hear is a name, and want is an autograph-but this piece makes no sense: https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/341252

Mullane opines, ""I'm not a firm believer that you have to go and mirror the football championship and the structure of the football championship, but we've got to take the learnings from what football are doing."

What learnings? Two-pointers if the goalie scores, and I wouldn't put it beyond Nicky Quaid. Football allows all counties in the country to enter the Sam Maguire: Kilkenny opt out, but NY and London opt in. So, we have 33 counties entering the same competition from the get-go. Is it fair? Is it balanced? Totally not, but it's an option that 20 or more counties do not have in hurling: 6 in Leinster, is it? and 5 in Munster that have a shot at lifting the McCarthy Cup.

What does Mullane, and indeed some others who advocate for change, want? Have the likes of Limerick and Kilkenny play each other 5 times in a season, or Tipp and Cork do battle 6 times?

Unless these ex-players (aka experts) have a proposal to submit to improve hurling, this "something's gotta change" attitude isn't worth a ball of blue. And even if they submit a proposal, having it implemented is another day's work altogether."
You make a valid point, how many times do we want repeat fixtures?
If Cork had got to the Final as expected, that would have been 3 championship games with Limerick. 2 League games and 1 in the Munster senior hurling league.
As long as there is only 10/11 counties at the top table only a certain amount of games can/should be played.
I am not having a pop at the Kerrys and Carlows of this world where dedicated hurling people reside as with many other counties. Its just in a majority of counties in Ireland hurling is a minority game or non existent at all.

Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 758 - 04/08/2026 12:36:33    2688627

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Replying To Southsham:  "You make a valid point, how many times do we want repeat fixtures?
If Cork had got to the Final as expected, that would have been 3 championship games with Limerick. 2 League games and 1 in the Munster senior hurling league.
As long as there is only 10/11 counties at the top table only a certain amount of games can/should be played.
I am not having a pop at the Kerrys and Carlows of this world where dedicated hurling people reside as with many other counties. Its just in a majority of counties in Ireland hurling is a minority game or non existent at all."
My solution to the hurling championships has two phases:

Phase 1 is return to a knock out Munster and Leinster Championship (winners would have to play two or three matches to win). The prize for winning would be guaranteed qualification for a "Home" all Ireland Quarter final (i.e. winning Munster/Leinster) guarantees you a home all Ireland quarter final regardless of how you perform in phase two).

Phase 2 is an open draw championship involving two groups of 6 (i.e. Munster and Leinster winners are separated, and perhaps the beaten Munster and Leinster finalists are put in opposing groups). Each team plays 5 matches. The top 3 teams in each group (who have not already qualified by winning Munster/Leinster) plus the Munster and Leinster champions) make up the All Ireland Quarter finalists.

Munster and Leinster champions get home advantage for their quarter finals, the other two quarters are played at neutral venues.

Then Semi Finals and Final in Croke Park.

Advantages are there is still an incentive to win Munster/Leinster, Every team will get a minimum of 6 championship matches, 8 teams will get a minimum of 7 matches, 4 teams get a minimum of 8 matches. The majority of hurling teams will still be hurling up to quarterfinals.

Disadvantages Hurling final would have to be played a week after the football final to fit in the games/breaks and the league structure might have to be tweaked to fit the hurling championship in in the time allotted

LimerickandProud (Limerick) - Posts: 295 - 04/08/2026 14:18:39    2688642

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Replying To LimerickandProud:  "My solution to the hurling championships has two phases:

Phase 1 is return to a knock out Munster and Leinster Championship (winners would have to play two or three matches to win). The prize for winning would be guaranteed qualification for a "Home" all Ireland Quarter final (i.e. winning Munster/Leinster) guarantees you a home all Ireland quarter final regardless of how you perform in phase two).

Phase 2 is an open draw championship involving two groups of 6 (i.e. Munster and Leinster winners are separated, and perhaps the beaten Munster and Leinster finalists are put in opposing groups). Each team plays 5 matches. The top 3 teams in each group (who have not already qualified by winning Munster/Leinster) plus the Munster and Leinster champions) make up the All Ireland Quarter finalists.

Munster and Leinster champions get home advantage for their quarter finals, the other two quarters are played at neutral venues.

Then Semi Finals and Final in Croke Park.

Advantages are there is still an incentive to win Munster/Leinster, Every team will get a minimum of 6 championship matches, 8 teams will get a minimum of 7 matches, 4 teams get a minimum of 8 matches. The majority of hurling teams will still be hurling up to quarterfinals.

Disadvantages Hurling final would have to be played a week after the football final to fit in the games/breaks and the league structure might have to be tweaked to fit the hurling championship in in the time allotted"
My usual criticism of suggestions of open-draw provincial championships first, followed by All-Ireland groups, is that the provincial championships would eventually become more or less irrelevant, as has happened in camogie. A "nice to win", but a "doesn't really matter in the long run".

At least you've tried to address that. But a couple of thoughts:
- if you've already won your province, what real incentive is there to do well in the All-Ireland groups that follow? Apart from not wanting to finish last, as I assume there'd be a relegation playoff between the bottom teams from each group. But other than that, doesn't really matter if you finish first, second, third, fourth, or fifth. You could go hammer and tongs to keep the momentum going, or you could go through the motions, giving fringe players a run and just experimenting ahead of the knockout stages where you're already assured of a place. And while I don't think any team would ever deliberately "throw" a match, you could put out a weakened team for a match where it's felt that a win for the opposition might suit you better in the long run.

- would certain venues (i.e. Wexford Park, Walsh Park, Cusack Park) be capable of hosting an All-Ireland quarter-final? I realise quarter-finals don't generally draw big crowds these past few years. But say Waterford won Munster, or Wexford won Leinster (might happen sometime!), and they had Cork and a big bandwagon coming to town - would you really put it on in a ground with capacity of just 15,000 to 20,000 or would you move it to another venue so that thousands of people wouldn't be disappointed by not being able to get tickets?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3827 - 04/08/2026 14:41:38    2688644

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Why is this an issue now that limerick are the top dogs. Nothing wrong with championship you either improve what you have or concentrate on the football.
Enforce existing rules regarding handpass, outlaw charging and the high arm tackle.

2maroonjerseys (Galway) - Posts: 178 - 04/08/2026 15:28:59    2688648

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Replying To LimerickandProud:  "My solution to the hurling championships has two phases:

Phase 1 is return to a knock out Munster and Leinster Championship (winners would have to play two or three matches to win). The prize for winning would be guaranteed qualification for a "Home" all Ireland Quarter final (i.e. winning Munster/Leinster) guarantees you a home all Ireland quarter final regardless of how you perform in phase two).

Phase 2 is an open draw championship involving two groups of 6 (i.e. Munster and Leinster winners are separated, and perhaps the beaten Munster and Leinster finalists are put in opposing groups). Each team plays 5 matches. The top 3 teams in each group (who have not already qualified by winning Munster/Leinster) plus the Munster and Leinster champions) make up the All Ireland Quarter finalists.

Munster and Leinster champions get home advantage for their quarter finals, the other two quarters are played at neutral venues.

Then Semi Finals and Final in Croke Park.

Advantages are there is still an incentive to win Munster/Leinster, Every team will get a minimum of 6 championship matches, 8 teams will get a minimum of 7 matches, 4 teams get a minimum of 8 matches. The majority of hurling teams will still be hurling up to quarterfinals.

Disadvantages Hurling final would have to be played a week after the football final to fit in the games/breaks and the league structure might have to be tweaked to fit the hurling championship in in the time allotted"
This is needed, as the full separation of Leinster from Munster in round robin formats is bad for hurling overall. Mixing them will increase the standard overall.

If every team gets 5 matches
Provincial winners and Rup get 3 home matches, the others get 2

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 2015 - 04/08/2026 16:26:43    2688658

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "In general, I like listening to Mullane. His recent: the Cork hurlers failed in 2026 because they shirked the homecoming in 2025 was on the money- as most kids under the age of 10 don't even realize whether their team won lost. All they can see is the jersey, and hear is a name, and want is an autograph-but this piece makes no sense: https://hoganstand.com/Article/Index/341252

Mullane opines, ""I'm not a firm believer that you have to go and mirror the football championship and the structure of the football championship, but we've got to take the learnings from what football are doing."

What learnings? Two-pointers if the goalie scores, and I wouldn't put it beyond Nicky Quaid. Football allows all counties in the country to enter the Sam Maguire: Kilkenny opt out, but NY and London opt in. So, we have 33 counties entering the same competition from the get-go. Is it fair? Is it balanced? Totally not, but it's an option that 20 or more counties do not have in hurling: 6 in Leinster, is it? and 5 in Munster that have a shot at lifting the McCarthy Cup.

What does Mullane, and indeed some others who advocate for change, want? Have the likes of Limerick and Kilkenny play each other 5 times in a season, or Tipp and Cork do battle 6 times?

Unless these ex-players (aka experts) have a proposal to submit to improve hurling, this "something's gotta change" attitude isn't worth a ball of blue. And even if they submit a proposal, having it implemented is another day's work altogether."
I dont think we need more games overall, or at least not many more. What we need are more games in June and July. The Cork chairs idea of having the hurling final after the football one was pretty good, as it would allow more hurling games in June and July. If we are keeping the round Robins then 8 quarterfinals would be the way forward, with the Provincial finalists at home to the 3rd and 4th teams from the other Province. These could be at the end of June/beginning of July if the Hurling final was the last weekend in July. 4 weeks before it. We could have more gap weeks in the Round Robins also. And have the lower tier finals in July too, with 2nd v 3rd in SFs in each tier at the end of June.
My personal preference would be a return to knockout Provincial Championships followed by an AI Round Robin, but sadly I dont think that would get over the line.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20399 - 04/08/2026 16:41:18    2688663

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Four teams qualifying from each Province would completely kill Provincial championships.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 2733 - 04/08/2026 17:29:28    2688671

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "This is needed, as the full separation of Leinster from Munster in round robin formats is bad for hurling overall. Mixing them will increase the standard overall.

If every team gets 5 matches
Provincial winners and Rup get 3 home matches, the others get 2"
If there's six teams in a group, such that each of them plays five matches, then no matter what way you do the fixtures, three of them get three home games.

Only way of avoiding it would be to some put matches into neutral venues because neither team "deserves" a home fixture for a third time since they didn't make their provincial final, but that would cause other issues.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3827 - 04/08/2026 18:45:07    2688679

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What learnings? Two-pointers if the goalie scores, and I wouldn't put it beyond Nicky Quaid.

When has Nicky ever scored a point? Maybe I'm forgetting here but he doesn't do it regularly anyway. Perhaps he should have said Mark Fanning here.

logger (Wexford) - Posts: 342 - 06/08/2026 08:33:19    2688783

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I can recall Seán Brennan scoring a point from Dublin after getting the ball back from a short pass and there's a current video of Shelly popping one over in Tipp club match for Moycarthy.

Its a pretty random skill to be awarding with two points. Reductio ad absurdum would be teams training a goalkeeper who could do that 10 times a game with a wind behind him!

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4531 - 06/08/2026 11:25:16    2688801

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I can recall Seán Brennan scoring a point from Dublin after getting the ball back from a short pass and there's a current video of Shelly popping one over in Tipp club match for Moycarthy.

Its a pretty random skill to be awarding with two points. Reductio ad absurdum would be teams training a goalkeeper who could do that 10 times a game with a wind behind him!"
Rhys Shelly scored one in last year's All-Ireland final. The biggest stage of all. They were cruising home at that stage so didn't need it to be a two-pointer.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2991 - 06/08/2026 12:03:43    2688810

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Replying To logger:  "What learnings? Two-pointers if the goalie scores, and I wouldn't put it beyond Nicky Quaid.

When has Nicky ever scored a point? Maybe I'm forgetting here but he doesn't do it regularly anyway. Perhaps he should have said Mark Fanning here."
Long range scores are all well and good, but the last thing hurling needs is more incentives for not working the ball into the forwards to make goal scoring opportunities
If they were going to fiddle with scoring the only change I would trial is 4 points for a goal and indirect frees for "technical fouls"
Football had a problem with defending on top, and low scoring, hurling does not have that scoring problem

Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 285 - 06/08/2026 12:28:30    2688817

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Replying To Yadse:  "Long range scores are all well and good, but the last thing hurling needs is more incentives for not working the ball into the forwards to make goal scoring opportunities
If they were going to fiddle with scoring the only change I would trial is 4 points for a goal and indirect frees for "technical fouls"
Football had a problem with defending on top, and low scoring, hurling does not have that scoring problem"
Exactly. The two-pointer in football was designed to incentivise long-range shooting. Hurling doesn't have that problem.

And I've actually made that point myself before too as regards indirect frees for technical fouls, including in my submission to the Hurling Advisory Committee's rules review survey. In particular, I'd be strict on the handpass, and would penalise any pass where there's not a clear striking motion and/or clear daylight between the palm of the hand and the ball at some stage of the motion.

Bearing in mind that a direct free from even 80 to 100 metres could lead directly to a score, it's probably too much of a penalty for a handpass that might just about have been technically legal in the first place. But if you make it an indirect free instead, I think referees would be much more inclined to blow up for all the dodgy ones, until we get to a stage where every handpass is clearly legal.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3827 - 06/08/2026 15:36:28    2688850

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "Rhys Shelly scored one in last year's All-Ireland final. The biggest stage of all. They were cruising home at that stage so didn't need it to be a two-pointer."
If it had been a two-pointer, then Shelley would have scored the same as the whole Cork team combined in that second-half of that match.

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2629 - 06/08/2026 16:26:16    2688864

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