Soma keeper -- italy are probably a tier 2 nation, they have had some good result since the joined the 6 nations

but in the same way theres not enough counties competing at the higher levels of the mccarthy cup there aint enough nations competing at the top end of international rugby so we need to keep them on board and encourage them to progress, Look at the attendances they get for internationals (topped up by vast travelling support granted). And if it was up to me id be looking at getting Georgia and Rumania up there as well .

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 10:01:40    1932934

Bain i think the fijians care more about sevens than 15s its in thei DNA and is their tradition

gas watching them and the all blacks -im alway telling kids two hands on the ball!! and then they see the fijian and kiwis holding in one hand likes its an egg

the rawness passion honesty and intensity of club sport appeals to me too - i do like the inter county/provincial/international games -but im an oddball who prefers the club game!!

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 10:05:50    1932937

Mes AMis
Vinnies take players from all over the Northside. From all type of backgrounds. I'm sure the same as those other clubs.
so do all the rugby clubs - look at wesley they have a rake of limerick guys playing with them now - once you can play ball the clubs counldnt care less about your background, trinity have some limerick lads as well

The point is that rugby will continue struggling in big parts of Dublin as long as the marquee Dubliners playing rugby are all from one small section of society.
yes but people have to be 1-encouraged to play and participate having a club nearby is one great way to do it tallaght, clondalkin marys clontarf all get players from their respective locality and 2-- people have to put their prejudices aside - go to a game - go to a club - bring your kids down to play , bring your kids to a match


People no4t from that elite section of society will continue, with exceptions of course (never said otherwise), to play other sports and be involved in other sports unless things change.

100+ years of elitism doesn't go away in a few years without some serious work which doesn't seem to be happening.

how do you know thats the case if you havent been to a club game and dont know anybody who plays or is involved in the game, if you go to a game you wont be barred or asked about your background , you pay your oney and they let you in its simple. , its only your perceptions and prejudices that are stopping you

be like me commenting on the people of burma when i have never been ther and dont know or have never met anybody from there and probably wont ever get to go there (saw the top gear special though)

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 10:15:43    1932941

Soma
In the history of the sport 8 countries have beaten England's senior mens team in rugby which shows the relevant strength across the globe.
- worse still all blacks only lost to 7 teams (inc lions but not world xv) --- was 6 until recently !!!!!!

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 10:22:15    1932942

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 11:25:27    1932957

janesboro

My experience is not your experience and vice versa. It's not that hard.

All the people I've ever encountered involved in rugby from Dublin have come from a certain section of society. Not my section. That is my experience.

Nowhere in any post do I claim my experience is definitive.

If you ask a lot of other Dubliners they will tell you that their experiences of rugby are similar. Again not definitive but there is a clear pattern.

If you can't see how that makes people less likely to get involved with the sport then I can't really help you. You talk all you like about how things are actually different in the clubs and that all of us have been wrong but none of that changes our experience.

I'm not complaining about the elitism, I'm just explaining how that perception/reality has affected who does and doesn't play rugby in Dublin. What I'm saying to you is what has happened in Dublin and is continuing to happen.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 11:31:38    1932959

It's not just dubs who feel alienated and no relationship with Leinster Rugby.

I am from Kildare and wouldn't have anything to do with them.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 09/11/2016 11:47:15    1932962

mesamis All the people I've ever encountered involved in rugby from Dublin have come from a certain section of society. Not my section. That is my experience.

given that you have never been a club game id suggest with respect your experience needs brushing up a bit, my experience is that they are a sound decent welcoming bunch - my experience is not extensive but based on going to matches in dublin and playing in dublin, been to trinity and marys this season going to terenure say , and i have the same experience with the dublin gaa set coz i played hurling and football in dublin too.

my own rugby club is in a working class area - most of our players at underage are workign class and either from the areas or their dads played with the club -glad to have them all on board

yeah there is a perception of poshness there -but get over it go to a game and see for yourself

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 11:58:37    1932969

I think that the working class in Dublin and Cork struggle to identify with rugby. So we are lucky in Limerick.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts:449 - 08/11/2016 16:06:05 1932769

yep you got that right - we dont seem to have the same biases and prejudices others have i put it down to the fact we experience a good range of sports, common in limerick for kids to play more than one sport even at adult level too, all my kids pals play the lot of em (different clubs) , most kids will have a soccer jersey (usually EPL side) a munster and limerick jersey, youd visit their houses the kids have a rugby ball soccer ball hurley and lsiotar , my own pals and neighbours follow and support the lot - they may prefer one over the other etc , no elitism no sense of inferiority no sense that you wont be accepted and proper order to so yes maybe we are lucky . pity we dont win so much!!!

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 12:07:39    1932979

Personally I'm involved in both GAA and soccer clubs so I've no interest in going to a rugby club, however welcoming I'm sure they'll be. A big part of that is that I don't see people I know from my type of background involved in rugby, at a local level (it doesn't exist locally) or on the TV/media. People with my background are clearly in a minority in rugby circles as if they weren't I'd at least know a few involved or they're be one or two appearing in Leinster/Ireland squads occasionally seeing as they make up such a large proportion of the population of the city. It's a fairly easy deduction and one made easily by most.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10205 - 09/11/2016 11:25:27 Well ive never seen anyone excluded from any rugby club anywhere do to background and if you think you would then it says much more about you in a negative fashion than it can ever say about rugby.
What exactly is your background? And why do you think you would be a minority in rugby circles?
Leinster and irish squads are not a true reflection of the rugby playing population

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 09/11/2016 13:16:24    1933004

given that you have never been a club game id suggest with respect your experience needs brushing up a bit, my experience is that they are a sound decent welcoming bunch - my experience is not extensive but based on going to matches in dublin and playing in dublin, been to trinity and marys this season going to terenure say , and i have the same experience with the dublin gaa set coz i played hurling and football in dublin too.

my own rugby club is in a working class area - most of our players at underage are workign class and either from the areas or their dads played with the club -glad to have them all on board

yeah there is a perception of poshness there -but get over it go to a game and see for yourself

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:821 - 09/11/2016 11:58:37

You really aren't reading what I'm writing at all.

All I'm doing is explaining why people in Dublin from working class backgrounds tend not to follow rugby. What I say is true, whether you think it's merely a perception or not is irrelevant to the discussion. That's what people see and they act accordingly.

Telling me that my experiences aren't valid and that I should just 'get over it' is hardly conducive to the discussion at hand. I've never doubted your experiences for a second but you seem to not be able to grasp that your experiences aren't mine, or aren't the same as a lot of people in Dublin.

There are clear reasons why a lot of people in Dublin's experiences of rugby are similar to mine. Rugby has struggled to rid itself of the perception that it is a game for the segregated elites in Dublin because despite all you've said about club rugby that perception is yet to come to the fore. It'll struggle to come to the fore as long as the majority of high profile players from the Dublin area come from the elite section of society.

Again I don't doubt anything you're saying about the welcoming nature of club rugby in Dublin but just explaining why that perception is still out there. Until you have the majority of high profile Dublin area rugby players coming from normal backgrounds the elitist tag will stick. That's all I'm saying.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 13:58:12    1933019

The GAA will go on leaps and bounds especially with Trump as US President, he'll send all Irish illegal emigrants home so at least we will have plenty of lads and lassies available for county teams, wait maybe he'll allow a reprieve so Irish blocklayers can work in the southern states building that wall so long as they fly home every weekend, they won't be living in the US, they will just be working there

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 09/11/2016 13:58:56    1933020

Well ive never seen anyone excluded from any rugby club anywhere do to background and if you think you would then it says much more about you in a negative fashion than it can ever say about rugby.
What exactly is your background? And why do you think you would be a minority in rugby circles?
Leinster and irish squads are not a true reflection of the rugby playing population

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:12243 - 09/11/2016 13:16:24

Read over my posts Ormond before you come on and say stuff about those posts displaying me in negative fashion. I'm merely explaining to you and janesboro why the perception of rugby as an elitist sport continues in Dublin.

In my experience, the only experience I have to go on, the only people I've ever encountered involved in rugby have been from the fee paying schools elite section of society. I've never seen any involvement in my community from anyone to do with rugby, although I've seen plenty involvement from a whole plethora of other sports, and I don't personally know anyone in my community involved in rugby.

Added to that that any time I see any Dubliners in the media, be they players or media etc, involved in rugby they all seem to be from the more privileged sections of the city.

When you put these experiences together it is fairly easy to see why the perception of rugby as a sport for the elites lingers in Dublin. These experiences, and I'm not for one minute claiming them as definitive experiences, are fairly similar to a lot of people's experiences. Can you not see what I'm saying?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 14:09:51    1933028

mesamis i never said your experiences were "not valid" i said
given that you have never been a club game id suggest with respect your experience needs brushing up a bit, 

Rugby has struggled to rid itself of the perception that it is a game for the segregated elites in Dublin because despite all you've said about club rugby that perception is yet to come to the fore.

Yes its a perception -but there is nothing stopping anybody from playing rugby , or anybody going to a club match having a drink in a club bar, buying a rugby and having a kick about at home.Ye gotta tackle these perceptions (pun!!) and go and have a look for yourself. Absolutely nothing stopping anybody

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 14:28:17    1933033

When you put these experiences together it is fairly easy to see why the perception of rugby as a sport for the elites lingers in Dublin. These experiences, and I'm not for one minute claiming them as definitive experiences, are fairly similar to a lot of people's experiences. Can you not see what I'm saying?

i do understand mesamis - but go and experience a game for yourself and you will see the Dublin club lads are sound .... like in munster they are probably more in to club rugby than the provincial stuff

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 09/11/2016 14:30:35    1933034

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 09/11/2016 14:45:20    1933039

janesboro

I don't doubt you but I've no reason to get involved in rugby. I'm already involved in other sports and have 3 kids at home.

Rugby can't give me anything I don't already get from other sports.

That's the point, the perception/reality pushes people away and into other sports and then they've no need to examine the perception/reality. Thus the cycle continues. Well over a century it has gone on for now.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 14:58:31    1933042

Read over my posts Ormond before you come on and say stuff about those posts displaying me in negative fashion. I'm merely explaining to you and janesboro why the perception of rugby as an elitist sport continues in Dublin.
In my experience, the only experience I have to go on, the only people I've ever encountered involved in rugby have been from the fee paying schools elite section of society. I've never seen any involvement in my community from anyone to do with rugby, although I've seen plenty involvement from a whole plethora of other sports, and I don't personally know anyone in my community involved in rugby.
Added to that that any time I see any Dubliners in the media, be they players or media etc, involved in rugby they all seem to be from the more privileged sections of the city. When you put these experiences together it is fairly easy to see why the perception of rugby as a sport for the elites lingers in Dublin. These experiences, and I'm not for one minute claiming them as definitive experiences, are fairly similar to a lot of people's experiences. Can you not see what I'm saying?
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10209 - 09/11/2016 14:09:5I have read your posts and It doesn't add up. You say there is a perception of rugby as elitist but most of those who have that perception have never experienced rugby in a club and only see rugby through people in a pub or through the lens of what may be covered in the media. That is far from a true reflection of what rugby is especially when you go on to look at the club game. You say you don't know anyone in your community involved in rugby. What exactly and how big is "your community"?
In the main the pro players from the city will be from more well off backgrounds or have worked ridiculously hard to attend a fee paying school making huge sacrifices to do so that doesn't mean you can tarnish all people with the one brush which you are doing and these experiences may be the same as many other peoples experiences but they are in no way a true reflection of what rugby is about and while you are clearly an intelligent guy I thought you would be above stereotyping rugby like you have been doing in this thread.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 09/11/2016 15:48:58    1933062

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 09/11/2016 15:59:22    1933070

Ormond

All I'm saying is that most of the rugby players from this city that end up playing for Leinster and Ireland come from a small section of society. That's just how it is.

That helps feed the perception about rugby in Dublin. Agreed?

That's all I'm saying.

In terms of my own personal experience, I'm pretty sure that it is quite similar to a lot of other Dubliners. I recognise that my experience is not definitive. However I'm sure you can see how that experience added to my first point could help to continue the perception about rugby.

For the record I'm from the North Stand Rd. I still live and work in the general area.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 09/11/2016 16:01:46    1933073