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bloodyban -was ard scoil a posh prestigous school as breffni is making out - didnt think it was
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 16:32:28
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Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10194 - 08/11/2016 16:28:51
given that limerick has not produced an international soccer player since johnny walsh in 1982 , should i take the view the irish soccer team does not represent me - (funnily we have had more international managers eoin hand, noel king, sam allardyce)
also i have to ask have you ever been to a club rugby game
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 16:37:42
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Replying To Breffni39: "LOL @ people with passionate hobbies and interests!" Passion based on what exactly? You'd invariably see more passion on the terraces than on the pitch anyway.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 08/11/2016 16:40:57
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Take Clontarf, Sutton, Malahide and Castleknock out of the equation and there's minimal rugby presence on the northside. From the N2 and M50 in as far as the dartline there's barely any rugby clubs and only one strong rugby school. In the same area though you have massive GAA clubs like Kickhams, Vincent's and Na Fianna, and the likes of Home Farm and Sheriff YC who would traditionally be two of the bigger amateur football clubs in the city.
On the southside you have the big rugby schools and clubs, most of them though are within close proximity and a few miles away you still find the big, successful GAA clubs in Ballyboden and Crokes and football teams like St Pat's CYC, Crumlin Utd and Cherry Orchard etc.
Rugby is certainly growing in parts of Dublin, especially with the development competitions for secondary schools. Apart from a select few areas though it will never be the biggest or most popular sport no matter how many coaches are hired. I'd be very surprised if the majority of the Leinster academy and underage teams aren't made up of kids coming out of the traditional private rugby schools for the foreseeable future.
That's a copy and paste job from a post I made on a similar subject 3 years ago. Guaranteed nothing has changed regarding rugby in the areas mentioned above.
There's a lot of people in Dublin who don't, and probably never will feel any real connection to Leinster or Irish rugby teams. There's plenty of people around the province who won't feel any connection to Leinster either although anecdotally I'd say people would be more supportive of Ireland than Leinster in the other 11 counties. Whether people like it or not there's still a D4 stigma attached to the provincial side.
What is interesting though is the growth of the GAA in some of the more non-traditional areas. Plenty of kids knocking around with hurls and footballs now around schools in Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown area where previously it would have been hockey sticks or rugby balls which were more popular.
Obviously there's schools that'll never be as accepting of new sports as others but there's development officers in the GAA and various sports partnerships doing great work around Dublin.
Tomsmith normally I'd have plenty of time for your posts and would regularly agree with what you have to say, but you're wrong on this one. Beating New Zealand won't make a difference to GAA or football, just like Ireland beating and drawing with the World Champions in 2 qualifying games for the Euro's didn't make much of a difference to rugby.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 08/11/2016 16:47:51
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I'm sport mad and will watch a race between 2 spiders climbing up a wall.
That changes however when it comes to my local club, Cavan, Ulster or Ireland. Because suddenly I've a sense of pride and belonging, a birthright if you will
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts:2073 - 08/11/2016 15:20:44 1
yeah id be the same id watch soccer, nfl, be glued to the olympics ,athletics , prefer rugby and hurling and like football too. Like you the closer to home i get the more passionate i am club , province/county then country in that order. Give me young munster then munster then ireland . Or club first then limerick in hurling and football. And the soccer i have loved wathcin most this year is dundalk in Europe and good on them.
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 16:47:52
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Replying To janesboro: "Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10194 - 08/11/2016 16:28:51
given that limerick has not produced an international soccer player since johnny walsh in 1982 , should i take the view the irish soccer team does not represent me - (funnily we have had more international managers eoin hand, noel king, sam allardyce)
also i have to ask have you ever been to a club rugby game" There is nothing stopping anyone from any background playing football for Ireland except their own ability.
If Brian O'Driscoll was from the North Strand you'd never have heard of him.
Also Steve Finnan was born in Limerick.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 16:48:32
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keeper 7 - go to any ail game or club game in limerick we get plenty passion on the terraces -bet its same in longford too
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 16:48:52
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Its an interesting debate to be honest.
We are all here because we are GAA people but a debate about Rugby can cause alot of conflict due to differing backgrounds.
I suppose the same could be said about Soccer. How many times have you heard negative things about soccer on this forum by specific people.
I can only speak from my few few experiences discussing Rugby with "Rugby" people that them individuals look down on non Rugby people even though some people just follow and understand any sports going.
Even from this debate this shines through above all else.
dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 08/11/2016 16:57:06
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mesamis
There is nothing stopping anyone from any background playing football for Ireland except their own ability.
there is nothing stopping anyone from any background playing rugby for ireland except their own ability, if they dont go a a rugby playing school they can go to their local club and play there they will be made welcome, its harder same way if you dont go to a school that plays hurling to a high level you may be less likely to play county level
If Brian O'Driscoll was from the North Strand you'd never have heard of him.
if roy keane was from weston/janesboro/castletroy/ballinacurra you never have heard of him
Also Steve Finnan was born in Limerick. -
-- he was but was reared in and came through the english football system (he lived in janesboro too!!!!)
-which according to you would be unrepresentative of the people of limerick
once again i ask have you ever been to a game of club rugby
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 17:00:58
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What is interesting though is the growth of the GAA in some of the more non-traditional areas. Plenty of kids knocking around with hurls and footballs now around schools in Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown area where previously it would have been hockey sticks or rugby balls which were more popular.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts:3257 - 08/11/2016 16:47:51
isnt it great to see, theres areas of limerick city that have no gaa , e.g. southill, weston ,moyross , all three have soccer weston has young munster in rugby and moyross has thomond rfc doing great work,its something limerick gaa are working on though.
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 17:09:22
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Janesboro
There's still a strong chance that you'd have heard of Roy Keane no matter where he came from as the chances that he would be exposed to soccer are far greater then the chances of BrIan O'Driscoll being exposed to rugby on the North Strand.
I've never been to a club rugly game. Why would I? I don't know a single person from my background involved in club rugby. I know plenty involved in all sorts of other sports, just off the top of my head: GAA, soccer, basketball, boxing, gymnastics, swimming, athletics, various martial arts, cycling, but none at all involved in rugby. That'd be quite typical and is very hard to change. 100+ years of an elitist tradition is going to be hard to break.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 17:17:59
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Lads we're all interested in multiple sports. There's no high horse in this regard.
I follow and enjoy Ulster and Irish rugby DESPITE the fairly obvious class/religious/sport snobbery differences.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 17:27:44
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isnt it great to see, theres areas of limerick city that have no gaa , e.g. southill, weston ,moyross , all three have soccer weston has young munster in rugby and moyross has thomond rfc doing great work,its something limerick gaa are working on though.
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:803 - 08/11/2016
I'm sure there's parts of every county that don't have one or two sports alright. The Limerick county board were advertising for a development officer last year to specifically focus on the inner city area. Obviously takes time for projects like this to bear fruit but with the right resources it's a good place to build from.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 08/11/2016 17:36:33
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Replying To MesAmis: " Replying To cavanman47: "[quote=MesAmis: "there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great." Mes, There's 2 ways of looking at your outlook on this issue - I'll compare it to my own outlook on Ulster Rugby; I've been asked plenty of times if I support the Ulster rugby team or not, and my answer is simple - of course I do. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the other supporters. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the players. I can't remember the last time, if ever, a Cavan man represented Ulster at senior provincial level. But I am from Ulster. I'm not from Leinster or Connaught or Munster - I'm from Ulster. Why shouldn't I support them? And these players (the vast majority) are from Ulster too. So how do they not represent me? You say many of the Dubs who play for Leinster and Ireland went to private schools, and many did, but they were still born in Dublin, brought up in the same streets if you will. In fact, it's not the private school or lifestyle that made most of these rugby players, it's the rugby player in them that decided that it was necessary to go to one of these schools in order to make it to the top (and I fully understand that that was not an option for many - heck, it wasn't an option for me!). Yes, these guys represent their schools, their clubs, etc. but they also represent their cities, their counties, their provinces, and - in a green jersey - their country."
Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept."]But wasn't there a time not so long ago that the Dublin football team was accused of not representing the entire county, when north side clubs dominated the panel.
(btw, I don't know what part of the city you're from, but in claiming not to be represented by the rugby team you could be either north or south side, I'll presume north but could easily be Clondalkin, Tallaght, Ballyfermot, etc.)
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5296 - 08/11/2016 17:47:31
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Never say never , cricket was once the most popular sport in kilkenny & tipp . Times change. The policy 'cultural nationalism' after independence by the State which gave the GAA dominance has now evaporated. Globalisation means young people can watch Cuban baseball or Kabadi any time of the day and the 'irishness' of a sport means little outside the 6 counties. The lack of an international sphere will hugely affect the GAA in years to come.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 08/11/2016 18:07:07
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Replying To cavanman47: " Replying To MesAmis: "[quote=cavanman47: "[quote=MesAmis: "there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great." Mes, There's 2 ways of looking at your outlook on this issue - I'll compare it to my own outlook on Ulster Rugby; I've been asked plenty of times if I support the Ulster rugby team or not, and my answer is simple - of course I do. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the other supporters. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the players. I can't remember the last time, if ever, a Cavan man represented Ulster at senior provincial level. But I am from Ulster. I'm not from Leinster or Connaught or Munster - I'm from Ulster. Why shouldn't I support them? And these players (the vast majority) are from Ulster too. So how do they not represent me? You say many of the Dubs who play for Leinster and Ireland went to private schools, and many did, but they were still born in Dublin, brought up in the same streets if you will. In fact, it's not the private school or lifestyle that made most of these rugby players, it's the rugby player in them that decided that it was necessary to go to one of these schools in order to make it to the top (and I fully understand that that was not an option for many - heck, it wasn't an option for me!). Yes, these guys represent their schools, their clubs, etc. but they also represent their cities, their counties, their provinces, and - in a green jersey - their country."
Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept."]But wasn't there a time not so long ago that the Dublin football team was accused of not representing the entire county, when north side clubs dominated the panel.
(btw, I don't know what part of the city you're from, but in claiming not to be represented by the rugby team you could be either north or south side, I'll presume north but could easily be Clondalkin, Tallaght, Ballyfermot, etc.)"]I'm from just off the North Strand Rd.
If a Dublin team were to have a majority from one side of the river it would not be the same as most players coming from a certain, relatively small, section of society.
Same goes for Janesboro's 'no Limerick internationals' argument.
2 entirely different things. Nothing to do with geography.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 18:15:37
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Replying To cavanman47: " Replying To MesAmis: "[quote=cavanman47: "[quote=MesAmis: "there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great." Mes, There's 2 ways of looking at your outlook on this issue - I'll compare it to my own outlook on Ulster Rugby; I've been asked plenty of times if I support the Ulster rugby team or not, and my answer is simple - of course I do. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the other supporters. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the players. I can't remember the last time, if ever, a Cavan man represented Ulster at senior provincial level. But I am from Ulster. I'm not from Leinster or Connaught or Munster - I'm from Ulster. Why shouldn't I support them? And these players (the vast majority) are from Ulster too. So how do they not represent me? You say many of the Dubs who play for Leinster and Ireland went to private schools, and many did, but they were still born in Dublin, brought up in the same streets if you will. In fact, it's not the private school or lifestyle that made most of these rugby players, it's the rugby player in them that decided that it was necessary to go to one of these schools in order to make it to the top (and I fully understand that that was not an option for many - heck, it wasn't an option for me!). Yes, these guys represent their schools, their clubs, etc. but they also represent their cities, their counties, their provinces, and - in a green jersey - their country."
Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept."]But wasn't there a time not so long ago that the Dublin football team was accused of not representing the entire county, when north side clubs dominated the panel.
(btw, I don't know what part of the city you're from, but in claiming not to be represented by the rugby team you could be either north or south side, I'll presume north but could easily be Clondalkin, Tallaght, Ballyfermot, etc.)"]id have to side with mesamis here..speaking as a dub the feeling is they represent a small minority elite in dublin and thats why i dont support them
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 08/11/2016 18:26:01
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Come on guys - rugby has effectively 4 clubs with only 3 in competition with the GAA. Some club county finals get better crowds than these rugby games. I encounter All Ireland League rugby on a regular basis and there are more people at a junior B ladies game in February. International rugby is different and it always got a great following due to the its social and corporate aspect. Basically rugby is not a threat to the GAA but certainly the GAA could learn a trick or 2 from it on the marketing, business and organisational side of things.
Redslayer (Westmeath) - Posts:94 - 07/11/2016 22:13:20 That's just ignorant and arrogant. Rugby in Ireland doesn't just have 4 sides or 3 in competition with GAA.
You encounter AIL rugby in what capacity?
Rugby isn't a threat to the GAA. Never has. The hurling and gaelic clubs and rugby clubs could all and should all work together more often and learn from each other more." A well known rugby club in the heart of Ireland (don't need to mention its name) - I know they get <100 at home gates. It's like that for years. I see it for myself on alternative Saturday's.
I would say less than 2% of rugby watching Ireland look or follow AIL rugby. It's almost dead! Go to any pub for next Ireland match and ask these fans who are the present AIL champions. 99% will not know or sadly care. The general rugby masses only know about the 4 provincial teams and the national team. So there is little fans at grassroot level - maybe there is more in Limerick which is unique for rugby in Ireland.
That's where rugby differs from GAA or even soccer. Ask a Clare of Limerick GAA fan who are their present county champions - >75% will know. Basically rugby has a lot of pretentious and bandwagon fans! It's a different type of following but the GAA can learn certain things from rugby.
Redslayer (Westmeath) - Posts: 100 - 08/11/2016 18:47:29
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MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10197 - 08/11/2016 17:17:59 19328
if you havent been to a club game and dont know anybody involved in rugby ..how do you how its supposedly elitist
treat yourself go down to watch terenue v munsters on sat, im travelling up but then im an diehard munstersman, trust me youll enjoy it, i probably wont with the tension of supporting a club, the standard is very good. even just to see the passion of the fans and to prove theres bugger all elitism, you can have a drink in the bar , even stay around and watch the various soccer and rugby internationals on the box.
Better still go to lansdowne v ucd on fri night and put up a report on it coz we have lansdowne before christmas
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 19:39:38
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I'm sure there's parts of every county that don't have one or two sports alright. The Limerick county board were advertising for a development officer last year to specifically focus on the inner city area. Obviously takes time for projects like this to bear fruit but with the right resources it's a good place to build from.
if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts:3258 - 08/11/2016 17:36:33 1932807
if we could get hurling or football or rugby goin in these areas with the populations they have it would be a big coup for all the sports
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 19:41:13
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