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Attending a fee paying school doesn't make you posh and clubs are entirely different to schools. Rugby has been doing a lot about changing the perception of the sport but only those who have direct interaction with clubs will see the perception of it being changed. If you stand on outside you wont see the changes. The IRFU and provincial branches have worked hugely and invested huge money and time into developing the sport in "non traditional areas".
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:12230 - 08/11/2016 12:51:55 1932678
I'm sure they are doing amazing work ormond, I just personally never seen any evidence of it. I taught in a number of disadvantaged schools in Dublin and never had any contact from anyone involved in rugby. I'm working in a different capacity now but still in a related field and have a lot of contact from the GAA and FAI, as well as other sporting organisation but rarely from the IRFU. Just my experience but the "great work" being done seems like spin to me, or least not nearly as great as the work being done by other organisations.
If you don't think going to a fee paying school makes you posh or privileged then you really haven't a clue about what we're talking about. If you regard it as normal, as you seem to say in another post, then you'll never understand the point being made. It is beyond you.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 14:32:19
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Might not be fee-paying/private schools but posh elite schools nonetheless.
Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:10599 - 08/11/2016 13:36:00Where? Like in Limerick.
funny to hear the term posh and limerick mentioned in the same breadth!!!!
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 14:32:58
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It's not representative of the where we're from."
You could apply that logic a lot more to soccer teams in the EPL, actually.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts:3119 - 08/11/2016 14:24:27 1932717
thats a very good point
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 14:33:49
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there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 14:36:16
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I'm sure they are doing amazing work ormond, I just personally never seen any evidence of it. I taught in a number of disadvantaged schools in Dublin and never had any contact from anyone involved in rugby. I'm working in a different capacity now but still in a related field and have a lot of contact from the GAA and FAI, as well as other sporting organisation but rarely from the IRFU. Just my experience but the "great work" being done seems like spin to me, or least not nearly as great as the work being done by other organisations.
If you don't think going to a fee paying school makes you posh or privileged then you really haven't a clue about what we're talking about. If you regard it as normal, as you seem to say in another post, then you'll never understand the point being made. It is beyond you.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts:10191 - 08/11/2016 14:32:19There is many who attend these schools who's parents make ridiculous sacrifices to get their sons/daughters to attend them. You are not posh or privileged if you do that.
Well I have seen the work the IRFU have done in so called disadvantaged areas. Could they do more? Yes but they do plenty.
Maybe it isn't as good as other sporting organisations but they are putting in work that for years they didn't do.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/11/2016 14:41:27
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Replying To keeper7: "MesAmis,
"Normal people see that an awful lot, more than should be on average, of players playing rugby for Ireland/Leinster from Dublin or it's surrounding areas all seem to have gone to one type of school, a type of school that wasn't an option for them.
It's not representative of the where we're from."
You could apply that logic a lot more to soccer teams in the EPL, actually." You could alright.
But there are certainly a lot more supporters of EPL teams in the very demographic that Leinster/Ireland rugby struggle to capture in Dublin. That shows the impact that class can have.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 14:46:28
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Replying To janesboro: "Might not be fee-paying/private schools but posh elite schools nonetheless.
Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:10599 - 08/11/2016 13:36:00Where? Like in Limerick.
funny to hear the term posh and limerick mentioned in the same breadth!!!!" Not really. I don't see why Limerick is viewed different to any other county.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 14:47:48
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It's something I don't understand at all, Janesboro. Like every youngster, I had a favourite English soccer team - Spurs, chosen solely because I played on a school mini-league team of that name. I had a slight interest in Liverpool for a while too but I grew out of it early on in secondary school. When I was even younger, my uncle bought me an Arsenal strip - these are the sort of trivial reasons behind grown men who fervently traipse over to Old Trafford & Anfield a few times a year & indoctrinate their sons & daughters into the same nonsense to watch overpaid premadonnas who temporarily wear the same jersey as them. The mind boggles!
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 08/11/2016 14:49:35
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "Might not be fee-paying/private schools but posh elite schools nonetheless.
Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:10599 - 08/11/2016 13:36:00So any kid who attends a school in Limerick like Munchins or ard scoil attended a posh, elite school. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds" Well they're certainly not Comps or Tecs full of people from estates and council houses.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 14:49:55
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Well they're certainly not Comps or Tecs full of people from estates and council houses.
Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts:10601 - 08/11/2016 14:49:55Eh there's plenty from both "estates" and council houses in both schools. Same with Crescent. Castletroy..
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/11/2016 14:57:34
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Your both being disengenous, you know full well what the score is.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 15:09:03
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I have no problem with any school or any student or whatever but lets call a spade a spade. The vast, vast majority of rugby players from all corners of Ireland come from prestigious schools, regardless of how you slice and dice it for whatever reason.
Any exceptions are entirely anecdotal.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 15:14:36
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Replying To keeper7: "It's something I don't understand at all, Janesboro. Like every youngster, I had a favourite English soccer team - Spurs, chosen solely because I played on a school mini-league team of that name. I had a slight interest in Liverpool for a while too but I grew out of it early on in secondary school. When I was even younger, my uncle bought me an Arsenal strip - these are the sort of trivial reasons behind grown men who fervently traipse over to Old Trafford & Anfield a few times a year & indoctrinate their sons & daughters into the same nonsense to watch overpaid premadonnas who temporarily wear the same jersey as them. The mind boggles!" It does indeed.
I've been to a few premiership games, but none of them involved the team I supported as a youngster. I'm going over again in a few weeks, for the atmosphere, the buzz, to watch the match and I'll cheer on the home side, but in all honesty, I couldn't give a fiddlers if they win or lose. I'm sport mad and will watch a race between 2 spiders climbing up a wall.
That changes however when it comes to my local club, Cavan, Ulster or Ireland. Because suddenly I've a sense of pride and belonging, a birthright if you will. Some people may have genuine reasons for supporting a certain team, but I really fail to see why the masses flock to support one American Owner's billion dollar team against another Russian's billion ruble team.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5296 - 08/11/2016 15:20:44
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Replying To cavanman47: "It does indeed.
I've been to a few premiership games, but none of them involved the team I supported as a youngster. I'm going over again in a few weeks, for the atmosphere, the buzz, to watch the match and I'll cheer on the home side, but in all honesty, I couldn't give a fiddlers if they win or lose. I'm sport mad and will watch a race between 2 spiders climbing up a wall.
That changes however when it comes to my local club, Cavan, Ulster or Ireland. Because suddenly I've a sense of pride and belonging, a birthright if you will. Some people may have genuine reasons for supporting a certain team, but I really fail to see why the masses flock to support one American Owner's billion dollar team against another Russian's billion ruble team." Russian and American Billionaires owning Pl clubs and Shaun Payne Cj Stander and perhaps Bundi aki pulling on an Ireland jersey.
The one thing they have in common is they have no blood ties to the country/club in question but are all benefiting from relaxed rules.
daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 08/11/2016 16:01:22
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Replying To MesAmis: "there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great." Mes,
There's 2 ways of looking at your outlook on this issue - I'll compare it to my own outlook on Ulster Rugby;
I've been asked plenty of times if I support the Ulster rugby team or not, and my answer is simple - of course I do.
I may not be from the same background as the majority of the other supporters.
I may not be from the same background as the majority of the players.
I can't remember the last time, if ever, a Cavan man represented Ulster at senior provincial level.
But I am from Ulster. I'm not from Leinster or Connaught or Munster - I'm from Ulster. Why shouldn't I support them?
And these players (the vast majority) are from Ulster too. So how do they not represent me?
You say many of the Dubs who play for Leinster and Ireland went to private schools, and many did, but they were still born in Dublin, brought up in the same streets if you will. In fact, it's not the private school or lifestyle that made most of these rugby players, it's the rugby player in them that decided that it was necessary to go to one of these schools in order to make it to the top (and I fully understand that that was not an option for many - heck, it wasn't an option for me!). Yes, these guys represent their schools, their clubs, etc. but they also represent their cities, their counties, their provinces, and - in a green jersey - their country.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5296 - 08/11/2016 16:05:50
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Replying To janesboro: "is there anybody out there who actually follows rugby and gaa and soccer , i do (more rugby and hurling, but like football and soccer too)
it may come as a shock to some people but itis ok to like gaa and another sport , its not a crime or a sin[/b" Hurling and Rugby for me too. I went to Ard Scoil when hurling was just on the way up and there was good rivalry. Some of the rugby team werent as ecumenical as the hurlers were but that changed when the hurlers started winning. But I think Limerick is the exception to the rule to an extent. But its changing across Ireland.
I think that the working class in Dublin and Cork struggle to identify with rugby. So we are lucky in Limerick.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 08/11/2016 16:06:05
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Replying To keeper7: "It's something I don't understand at all, Janesboro. Like every youngster, I had a favourite English soccer team - Spurs, chosen solely because I played on a school mini-league team of that name. I had a slight interest in Liverpool for a while too but I grew out of it early on in secondary school. When I was even younger, my uncle bought me an Arsenal strip - these are the sort of trivial reasons behind grown men who fervently traipse over to Old Trafford & Anfield a few times a year & indoctrinate their sons & daughters into the same nonsense to watch overpaid premadonnas who temporarily wear the same jersey as them. The mind boggles!" LOL @ people with passionate hobbies and interests!
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12436 - 08/11/2016 16:10:10
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19There is many who attend these schools who's parents make ridiculous sacrifices to get their sons/daughters to attend them. You are not posh or privileged if you do that.
Well I have seen the work the IRFU have done in so called disadvantaged areas. Could they do more? Yes but they do plenty.
Maybe it isn't as good as other sporting organisations but they are putting in work that for years they didn't do.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:12234 - 08/11/2016 14:41:27 1932735
If they can afford to spend all that amount of money on their childrens' school segregation then they are indeed priveleged.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 16:18:12
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Replying To cavanman47: " Replying To MesAmis: "there possibly a disproportionate amount of limerick hurlers from to ard scoil , clare from flannans , kilkenny from kierans etc - does that make them non representative - no it does not
when there sons of expats playing rugby or soccer for ireland - does that make them non representative - no it does not
well when guys play rugby for munster or rugby/soccer fir ireland they represent me i cheer for them - dont care what school whaat location or even what club they come from
when guys play hurling or football for limerick they represent me too -dont care what school they went to or what location or club they hail from
support our teams and put the auld prjudices aside lads eh
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts:793 - 08/11/2016 14:27:58
You don't get it man, that's grand.
It's not a prejudice either. It just is what it is. 100+ years of tradition doesn't get turned around that easily.
Leinster or Ireland in rugby just don't represent where I'm from. Maybe someday they will and that'd be great." Mes, There's 2 ways of looking at your outlook on this issue - I'll compare it to my own outlook on Ulster Rugby; I've been asked plenty of times if I support the Ulster rugby team or not, and my answer is simple - of course I do. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the other supporters. I may not be from the same background as the majority of the players. I can't remember the last time, if ever, a Cavan man represented Ulster at senior provincial level. But I am from Ulster. I'm not from Leinster or Connaught or Munster - I'm from Ulster. Why shouldn't I support them? And these players (the vast majority) are from Ulster too. So how do they not represent me? You say many of the Dubs who play for Leinster and Ireland went to private schools, and many did, but they were still born in Dublin, brought up in the same streets if you will. In fact, it's not the private school or lifestyle that made most of these rugby players, it's the rugby player in them that decided that it was necessary to go to one of these schools in order to make it to the top (and I fully understand that that was not an option for many - heck, it wasn't an option for me!). Yes, these guys represent their schools, their clubs, etc. but they also represent their cities, their counties, their provinces, and - in a green jersey - their country."
Although it doesn't work like that for me. I'll never engage with a team that takes the majority of its players from my city from such a small minority of my city. They represent their Dublin, not mine.
It's a fairly simple concept.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 08/11/2016 16:28:51
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The one thing they have in common is they have no blood ties to the country/club in question but are all benefiting from relaxed rules.
daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts:3414 - 08/11/2016 16:01:22
neither did seanie johnston or brian lacey - but when they played for musnter/ireland/kildare they put their bodies on the line and gave their all
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 08/11/2016 16:30:34
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