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Replying To bad.monkey: "Espn 30 for 30 were great - once were brothers, the U, two escobars...amongst many others. I havent seen that doc about recent tour of SA. Doesnt sound too great alright !" agreed...looking forward to the next few....it served as a marketing piece for vodafone..im suprised rte aired it though..it seemed more internet worthy
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 11/11/2016 22:32:44
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Replying To thelongridge: "Thanks for that insight into the changing face of NI society bumper nut." Don't mention it, it's good to keep those who know no better in the free state informed
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 11/11/2016 22:52:55
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alano
documentaries should be for teams who actually achieved something...like dublin winning the all ireland or ireland coming out of the groups in the euros
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/the-dubs-the-story-of-a-season-30003529/10488112/
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/a-summer-in-blue-30002664/10319118/
back from thomond so happy to be arguing so the above are for your enjoyment -have to wait until christmas for the euro 2016 documentary
janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 11/11/2016 23:58:53
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The rugby lads on this thread want us to believe that ALL rugby internationals are important. Yet, Ireland fields a reserve team today against Canada, with no less than 15 changes from the NZ game. Now, they also frequently say that the GAA managers don't take the national league seriously- I know of no serious modern GAA manager who would treat a national league game like this (or show such disrespect to an opponent, for that matter). It would make you wonder- maybe NZ hold us in the same regard as we hold Canada??
football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 12/11/2016 10:43:29
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In answer to the question in the topic head, I don't think it will in the long term. Cultural change is happening relentlessly. Rugby is a 9 month season and it is increasingly winning over the hearts and minds of the sporting public. The GAA, in terms of commanding national attention is a 3 month season at most. I think that is how our cultural life will evolve into the future: 75% of the time a rugby- obsessed people and the other 25% of the time with our attention focussed on Gaelic games, during the period of the year when professional rugby is in the off season. Back in the time when Moss Keane was in his prime, it was often said (and I think he joked about it himself) that rugby was played by fellas who were not good enough to make it as inter county footballers. That comment used to be made half humourously, but there was a lot of truth in it. Now the shoe is very firmly on the other foot -- if a top class GAA player is good at rugby and has a chance to make a career in the sport, even if not at the very top level, he will choose rugby every time. Numerous promising Gaa players have made that jump in recent years and many more will do it in the future. There is little doubt in my mind that in 50 years time rugby will be the No.1 sport in Ireland (almost to the extent it is No.1 in New Zealand). I'm saying this as someone who has zilch interest in rugby and for whom it will always be on the edge of my consciousness, but I cannot fail to see the cultural shift that is happening before my eyes.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2049 - 12/11/2016 11:20:10
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Fair play to him. Is there a problem with that?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2979 - 10/11/2016 19:10:11
Yes there is a very serious problem with that, an ethical problem.
He is admittedly an Stadium project insider who is on a "Casement Park" thread trying to quiet other posters who are highlighting serious concerns and flaws with the proposed project.
Failing to quiet them with valid Counterpoints or facts, he attacks them personally with jibes.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 12/11/2016 14:10:08
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Replying To GaryMc82: "Fair play to him. Is there a problem with that?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts:2979 - 10/11/2016 19:10:11
Yes there is a very serious problem with that, an ethical problem.
He is admittedly an Stadium project insider who is on a "Casement Park" thread trying to quiet other posters who are highlighting serious concerns and flaws with the proposed project.
Failing to quiet them with valid Counterpoints or facts, he attacks them personally with jibes." 'll just leave this post here and from a Down man too....... I would also like to point out the date folks!
I go away for a week and this is still being discussed - the minute I read that Belfast and to a lesser extent Antrim and Gods own county (An Dún) arent really GAA areas and Belfast was similiar to Derry soccer city, then I knew enough was enough!!
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts:455 - 16/01/2015 12:23:50
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 12/11/2016 14:54:10
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I go away for a week and this is still being discussed - the minute I read that Belfast and to a lesser extent Antrim and Gods own county (An Dún) arent really GAA areas and Belfast was similiar to Derry soccer city, then I knew enough was enough!!
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts:455 - 16/01/2015 12:23:50
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1493 - 12/11/2016 14:54:10
bumpernut who is an insider in this proposed Casement Project, trolling these pages to disuade dissent from GAA people, fails to realise that part of Belfast City is also in County Down, or that this has been debated since 2013 or earlier.
This is worst than first thought, this Insider must be from England or somewhere!!! God help us all
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 12/11/2016 18:20:08
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "In answer to the question in the topic head, I don't think it will in the long term. Cultural change is happening relentlessly. Rugby is a 9 month season and it is increasingly winning over the hearts and minds of the sporting public. The GAA, in terms of commanding national attention is a 3 month season at most. I think that is how our cultural life will evolve into the future: 75% of the time a rugby- obsessed people and the other 25% of the time with our attention focussed on Gaelic games, during the period of the year when professional rugby is in the off season. Back in the time when Moss Keane was in his prime, it was often said (and I think he joked about it himself) that rugby was played by fellas who were not good enough to make it as inter county footballers. That comment used to be made half humourously, but there was a lot of truth in it. Now the shoe is very firmly on the other foot -- if a top class GAA player is good at rugby and has a chance to make a career in the sport, even if not at the very top level, he will choose rugby every time. Numerous promising Gaa players have made that jump in recent years and many more will do it in the future. There is little doubt in my mind that in 50 years time rugby will be the No.1 sport in Ireland (almost to the extent it is No.1 in New Zealand). I'm saying this as someone who has zilch interest in rugby and for whom it will always be on the edge of my consciousness, but I cannot fail to see the cultural shift that is happening before my eyes." So Rugby is going to eclipse both soccer and GAA?
A sport with a couple of hundred of clubs is going to eclipse sports with a few thousand?
Interesting idea.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 12/11/2016 19:06:24
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "In answer to the question in the topic head, I don't think it will in the long term. Cultural change is happening relentlessly. Rugby is a 9 month season and it is increasingly winning over the hearts and minds of the sporting public. The GAA, in terms of commanding national attention is a 3 month season at most. I think that is how our cultural life will evolve into the future: 75% of the time a rugby- obsessed people and the other 25% of the time with our attention focussed on Gaelic games, during the period of the year when professional rugby is in the off season. Back in the time when Moss Keane was in his prime, it was often said (and I think he joked about it himself) that rugby was played by fellas who were not good enough to make it as inter county footballers. That comment used to be made half humourously, but there was a lot of truth in it. Now the shoe is very firmly on the other foot -- if a top class GAA player is good at rugby and has a chance to make a career in the sport, even if not at the very top level, he will choose rugby every time. Numerous promising Gaa players have made that jump in recent years and many more will do it in the future. There is little doubt in my mind that in 50 years time rugby will be the No.1 sport in Ireland (almost to the extent it is No.1 in New Zealand). I'm saying this as someone who has zilch interest in rugby and for whom it will always be on the edge of my consciousness, but I cannot fail to see the cultural shift that is happening before my eyes." I think Soccer or Football will be. There is a lot more Soccer clubs in this country then Rugby ones. Yes there is a massive campaign to install Rugby. Led by Guinness, Bank of Ireland and Independent Media. But we must remain strong. Irish Soccer will back Gaelic football. And hopefully Irish Rugby will undertake Hurling. Stay strong and believe in the GAA.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2625 - 12/11/2016 19:09:02
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I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on.
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 12/11/2016 19:48:24
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on." i attended a leinster match against bath over in england last year and had a very similar experience
alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 12/11/2016 19:54:57
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on." If this happened at Croke park the media especially INM and Indo would be all over it. I don't want to be anti Rugby here. It is just a game but you can be sure if it happened in Croker-The Irish Times sports back page would have a piece on "Drunks in Croke park" or something like that. The Autumn Rugby Internationals are sponsored by Guinness!!! But you will not hear a word of negativity from the INM or the Irish Times.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2625 - 12/11/2016 19:57:30
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on." If this happened at Croke park the media especially INM and Indo would be all over it. I don't want to be anti Rugby here. It is just a game but you can be sure if it happened in Croker-The Irish Times sports back page would have a piece on "Drunks in Croke park" or something like that. The Autumn Rugby Internationals are sponsored by Guinness!!! But you will not hear a word of negativity from the INM or the Irish Times.
galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2625 - 12/11/2016 19:57:31
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50 years is a long way to look forward ! Gaelic games will be professional within 10 to 20 years with completely different structures . If you were looking to the future Australia is where I would be looking . Australia has its own national sport like we do but started with a much smaller support base for Aussie rules . Since turning professional soccer and rugby can't compete even though they have won the world cup not won a test match .
carlow56 (Carlow) - Posts: 3 - 12/11/2016 20:19:24
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on." Excellent post.
cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 12/11/2016 20:21:54
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Replying To hill16no1man: "I was in Limerick yesterday and a relative had a ticket going to waste and asked me to go to thomond park to see the munster xv play the maori xv in the friendly last night..
So I got a perfect insight for this thread.
have to say I enjoyed what was going on on the pitch in terrible conditions munster xv played well and really wanted to win and deserved to win.
the maori xv to be honest didnt look all that bothered, they looked more like a bunch of guys thrown together and deservedly got nothing.
I was on the terrace at side of the pitch and most glaring thing of the whole experience didnt happen on the pitch at all.
Throughout the entire game I was amazed just how much people were devoted to alcochol.
you are allowed bring the alcohol up with you and drink it on the terrace, while your watching the match.
myself and the two people with me were the only people who had not got a cardboard holder which allowed you hold 4 pints of beer.
the entire match i found myself having to move to allow people up and down up and down to go out and get more alcohol and bring it back up.
it was a constant flow.
In fact one guy went up and down to the bar 5 times in the first half alone each time coming back with the cardboard thing of 4 pints.
By the time the last twenty minutes of the match came there was women included hardly able to stand from the amount they had drank.
there was a group of lads in their early 30tys just talking and not even watching the game just like they were in a bar and two women one of which had her back turned away from the pitch for the entire second half talking away.
They must make an absolute fortune on alcohol in thomond park.
for me I had to wonder how they can enjoy the actual match when they get that much drink, it seems a massive waste of money when they couldjust sit in the pub and have the game on the tv saving you money.
the tickets were 20 on the terrace and I think 40 for stand just for a friendly that had a lot of academy players playing seemed very expensive.
I wonder if they did like they do with hill16 and make you have to consume the alcohol underneath the terraces at the bar would they loose an awful lot of people from attending matches as it seems a very big part of the whole rugby event.
It must surely frustrate the actual hardcore supporters who go to the matches to watch and enjoy the action on the pitch that they have to put up with making room for others to constantly stream out to the bar and bring alcochol back up spilling more and more around them as the game goes on." I like your post Hill16, and similar thoughts crossed my mind when I was brought along to a recent Pro12 game between Connacht and Leinster. Yes, alcohol seemed to be a big part of the experience for many people there. Lots of people talking among themselves as well while the game continued on the field. Overheard one young chap from Kilkenny behind me saying that he supported Kilkenny in hurling and Munster in rugby (obviously of the same mind of some of the posters here who have been pointing out how much rugby was/is class based in Dublin/ Leinster). Presumably as a Leinster born man he was either neutral at the game I attended or else was supporting Connacht!!!! Imagine if alcohol was as freely available in Croke Park and other venues and if people were able to bring it back to their seats -- there would be an uproar and no doubt it would be lambasted in the media.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2049 - 12/11/2016 20:24:00
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Replying To cuederocket: "Excellent post." For people with kids, busy work etc going to matches is a social outlet same as GAA or soccer matches.... Having a few drinks with my brothers and sisters while watching a match is very enjoyable. We do it at out local GAA club and also rugby matches. The fact that Croke park doesnt want this is fine and matches are much shorter but it is not a hugely negative thing to have a few drinks at a match. I have never heard of trouble at a match because of it.
Lots of people at matches are not hardcore fans, much like most people who go to the cinema are not film bufs. Its just enertainmrnt or watching family/friends play
I understand you do not like the alcohol culture in Ireland and just from your posts i assume have been badly affected by it (apologies if wrong). But most people have not . Meeting family and friends at a match be it GAA or rugby and having a drink is very enjoyable to lots of peolle. No we dont 'need' a drink but just like it. Life is hard enough.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4653 - 12/11/2016 21:15:39
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Cork hurlers lost Darren Sweetnam, Tomas O' Leary and Simon Zebo to hurling.
Simon was a very good underage player with Blackrock.
Tomas (Seanie's son) was an excellent hurler.
Maybe we could have Munster play a few games in the new Pairc ......would fill it up.
Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 13/11/2016 18:47:00
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Replying To bad.monkey: "For people with kids, busy work etc going to matches is a social outlet same as GAA or soccer matches.... Having a few drinks with my brothers and sisters while watching a match is very enjoyable. We do it at out local GAA club and also rugby matches. The fact that Croke park doesnt want this is fine and matches are much shorter but it is not a hugely negative thing to have a few drinks at a match. I have never heard of trouble at a match because of it.
Lots of people at matches are not hardcore fans, much like most people who go to the cinema are not film bufs. Its just enertainmrnt or watching family/friends play
I understand you do not like the alcohol culture in Ireland and just from your posts i assume have been badly affected by it (apologies if wrong). But most people have not . Meeting family and friends at a match be it GAA or rugby and having a drink is very enjoyable to lots of peolle. No we dont 'need' a drink but just like it. Life is hard enough." Hey no I haven't been effected by alcohol personally really I just know it has no benifits that come from it.
but I posted here not from an alcohol point of view, it was a post describing the match day experience got to do with going to a rugby match, I didn't want it to be an alcohol debate, I just wanted to describe what I experienced as an event as a whole on and off the pitch.
look like I understand your entitled to drink but why not just go to the pub to socialise as i just felt the majority were not really interested in the actual sport taken place and as much as you say its a social event surely the reason for going to watch a sports match should be about the players on the pitch and the sport itself, if that's not enough entertainment then maybe just go to the pub that way your not annoying the people who are there to watch the action on the pitch. You can still take a passing interest in the match with on the tv in the pub and socialise to your heart's content. It's ironic the same people that were frustrating going up and down to the bar making you have to move and causing alcohol to spill on you were the ones when a penalty or conversion was going to be taken shushhing everybody around them haha
hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/11/2016 18:49:50
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