Joe Brolly articulates what I've always believed about defensive systems in football:

link

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/02/2016 12:34:03    1825728

Ridiculous article. Normally I like Joe but pushing up on the sweeper will leave you exposed against a side with pace. Am I the only person who think Joe uses poetic licence a little to liberally? The incident with the keeper and the corner back may have happened once (if it happened at all). As a fan I would much rather watch that then seeing two boys jostle over a high ball. It's intriguing to watch two teams try and pull each other out and see one of them blink first. I don't know about the rest of you but I enjoy watching teams display intelligence when on the ball. Donegal vs Galway in the round 4 game this summer is a perfect example. Donegal held the ball, went backwards waiting for the Galway defence to slip up. It requires some amount of discipline to do that and if you have the discipline you will usually get rewarded.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 16/02/2016 12:58:42    1825738

Much & all as it galls me to say it, Brolly is talking a lot of sense in his Indo column these days.

He is an annoying little turd at times but he puts that big brain of his to good use on occasion.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 16/02/2016 13:26:00    1825750

Not a fan myself and know that Dublin at times particularly under Gilroy Dublin played a similar style themselves , however as Brolly wrote the article watch this discussion disintegrate into hes looking for attention , Ulster puke football bullshi7 that most of these threads turn into.

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 16/02/2016 13:27:21    1825752

Throwing numbers forward didn't work too well for Dublin against Donegal in 2014

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 16/02/2016 13:36:53    1825757

Few errors with the article.....firstly POC and Eugene Keating spent their time isolated in the FF line....POC wasnt stuck defending. Secondly as Cavan are so physically light, a man to man defence wouldnt suit them as they would have been bullied by a physically stronger Derry....he fails to factor that in his argument. The idea of attacking football is great, but the weaker teams have to do something different to have any chance, and Cavan are not good enough at present to play man to man football against bigger more physical teams

Crash Bang Wallop (None) - Posts: 268 - 16/02/2016 14:16:52    1825776

Complete bs from Joe , Joe watch Dublin v Donegal 2014 it doesn't work, the only way you beat the blanket is to copy it. He's right doh Gaelic football is very boring nowadays.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 16/02/2016 15:07:37    1825790

What-the-he'll are 'quarter-backs?' Is he trying to advocate turning GAA games into clones of American Football? I wonder what approach he adopts in his court cases - defensive or all-out attack. Any guesses?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/02/2016 15:32:36    1825807

Another negative article from Joe. It's now a weekly thing about the same issue. There are other things to write about!!!!

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 16/02/2016 15:36:49    1825810

Brolly's idea of being the master analyst of systems is telling us all exactly what will happen in a match right down to the fine details. He has a perfect vision of how each game will go. Then by half time the game is a completely different game to the one he predicted and instead of holding his hands up and saying sorry I was talking out of my **** before the match, he just goes on to tell you why the game has gone that way as if his pre match comments were never said. I've noticed this many times so when he starts talking systems I just turn over.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2558 - 16/02/2016 16:53:03    1825858

The reason it works in soccer and not gaa is because the press is far more effective in soccer, mainly down to the fact that you cant grab hold of the ball with your hands and just brute-force through a tackle, like you can in gaelic football - you would just lose the ball. What good is a high court press to the likes of messi and neymar if they were playing gaa? They would be blasted out of the way. That is why you have to retreat back to in front of the posts to reliably prevent scores in the gaa. It is real last stand at the Alamo stuff, and truth be told, probably uncovers a lack of balance in gaelic football. For example, in rugby, this is combatted by forcing a team to pass backwards. In soccer, someone will get a toe to it and it will skirt away. Football doesn't address it - the solo is supposed to do it, but the rule doesn't get enforced properly.

The reason it might work for crossmaglen is because they are playing club teams which are of a lower level generally, and are definitely of a lower level than themselves. So they can match their opponents on man to man battles like his example of how to deal with the sweeper. The sweeper's marker is probably a superior footballer to the sweeper. But how would they do if the opposing sweeper was beating his man consistently and coming out with the ball like what might happen for a poorer side? All of a sudden the opposition have an extra man coming out, and a big gap to put the ball into up front. Quoting crossmaglen only shows that brolly doesn't understand the blanket defence at all - you don't need to do it at all if you are superior man for man. He couldn't have picked a worse example. However, may I ask what he thinks of cross kicking the ball out the middle against castlebar in the second half at the weekend, with barry moran cleaning up. A handpass to the cornerback at the opportune moment might have gotten them a draw, or even a win.

His example of enda gormley's team isn't really a good one either. Mainly because the error here was with the opposing sweepers going too far forward rather than anything great gormley's team were doing. Those sweepers should have clocked the 2 men waiting up the field and just marked them, or better yet, their men should have marked them - who seemed to have gone walkabout in the example. The real reason this worked was because the opposition didn't implement their own defensive system properly - which is understandable, as they are 18 year old club players after all. Furthermore, what he doesn't explain is, gormley's team were themselves playing a blanket defence, they just developed a better outlet while in possession by fine tuning a bit - just like jim mcguinness did in 2012, yet he slates mcguinness in the article.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 16/02/2016 17:08:56    1825868

The sweeper system is for teams/managers who know they are not good enough to go man to man- it offers poor defenders a chance to look quite reasonable footballers and it enables them to be able to abscond their primary responsibility. Joe is correct on this one. It does not take great skill for two guys to man mark one player- In summary I see it mainly as a cop out for players of limited skill/ability.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 16/02/2016 17:37:26    1825879

Have to agree with brolly. If a team.wants a sweeper, a designated one, then the opposition should make sure hes marked. Same as in hurling with wford. Who ever is playing them, mark de burca and see what happens. In intercounty fball/hurl, if you not good enough defending, 5 v 5, you re unlikely to be good enough 6 v 6. Each player is responsible for their own. This current football is rubbish. Look at mayo donegal last year. Mchugh is named at wing forward, his marker on paper is lee keegan. Keegan kicks 1 2, mchugh doesnt score, and in his sweeper role, cant stop aidan oshea brushing him aside and burying another goal.

old yellar (None) - Posts: 2630 - 16/02/2016 18:08:49    1825895

Why oh why would you ever read or listen to one thing the man says? He's a showman there to blow his own trumpet.

Makes it up as he goes along.

None of you remember him lambasting 'naive defending' etc which is code you must have a blanket defence?????

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 16/02/2016 18:14:29    1825896

The point could be that in Soccer the basic skill of kicking the ball is still maintained even with a defensive system. In Gaelic the defensive system that has evolved is almost entirely a hand passing system. The basic skills of kick and catch have been forfeited and as long as people continue to defend it, it will fester.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 708 - 16/02/2016 18:25:28    1825900

Outside of football he does a lot of good things but within the media and GAA he's a weather vane, a self obsessed egotist, an attention seeker who cries, yaps and stamps his feet like a child if he's not the centre of the football universe. He changes his tune to suit his own agenda and like a Stepford Wife he has become totally Southern 'media'ised. He was the biggest cheerleader for Armagh. Tyrone and Donegal when they were winning All Ireland's playing a defensive style game but now he is it's arch enemy to suit the Southern media audience he writes and broadcasts for. I don't know anyone who has the time of day for him in Ulster football circles and he is now really a figure of fun and ridicule up here.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 16/02/2016 19:23:32    1825922

He changed after the semi final in '13 between Dublin and Kerry that's when Mcguiness and blanket defence teams became his number 1 enemy.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 16/02/2016 19:39:21    1825935

Handpassing and the fear of a turnover is killing the game as a spectacle. Players know they will be castigated if they lose posession by trying a footpass, its getting closer to Rugby in trying to hold posession , being patient and then trying to advance up the pitch. I have to say the Boden game the weekend was muck to watch. I much preferred watching the Cross game.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 16/02/2016 20:08:03    1825943

Regardless of your opinion on Brolly, he's saying what has been apparent to me for a number of years looking at my own club & county playing this brand of football. When you work the ball out of defence as far as the wing back position & there's no half forward in position to show for a pass, you inevitably end up playing the ball sideways or backwards through retreating opponents. By the time the ball has been sufficiently worked forward the opposing markers & sweepers are long in place. Isn't the long early ball supposed to be how to cut out the sweeper???

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 16/02/2016 20:22:59    1825947

I'm glad the blanket defence exists.

If I'm ever a manger I won't use it myself but I'm glad the game has evolved tactically.

There are a few muck games alright but I mean there's a tonne of those in other sports too.

The top 3 teams Dublin, Mayo and Kerry don't use a blanket defence. They've developed strategies to combat it. If it wasn't for the blanket defence these teams may never have needed to adapt their style to meet this new challenge.

Monaghan in last years Ulster final played really well to pick holes in Donegal blanket, the game was panned but I really enjoyed it. It was way better than some of the All Ireland gold games. The game was so naive back then. Catch and kick giving away possession to me is horrible to watch.

I do think a lot of teams, particularly in Ulster don't get the balance right between attack and defence and that'll hurt their chances. On the flip side though I think there are a lot of teams particularly in Leinster (Meath being the prime example) where they have resisted adapting to the modern game and that has cost them also. It's hard to see any of the top 8 Ulster teams losing a 9 point second half lead against Westmeath like what happened in last year's Leinster semi-final.

As for those who say that doing anything other than man to man marking is a cop out that is rubbish. The whole point of a team is to play together as a collective and to work together to get the most out of what you have. If that means using a man to man strategy like Crossmaglen then that's fine but equally if you're likely to lose going man to man then you'd been crazy not to try something to win. I think not trying some different and accepting an almost certain loss is more of a cop out than trying to win the game by whatever way gives you the best chance.

As for Brolly's piece I think theMaster's post is an excellent breakdown on the flaws of the piece.

He's also a little late to the party with regards analysing Barcelona's style of play. The don't press high particularly any more. They had to abandon that to a certain extent as they moved away from having forwards brought through their academy. It is ridiculously difficult to organise a team to press effectively as a unit. There's only a few top team in European football capable of doing that now and those guys are professionals training together all the time. It's just not especially practical to expect amateur county footballers to execute that sort of strategy.

I do agree though that teams do need to spend more time developing attacking strategies, defence alone will not win you games.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 16/02/2016 20:45:28    1825955